Pages: 1 … 57 58 59 60 61 … 67

 

2012-03-23 19:32:14
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6747

ok. but 'genocide =/= 'jew-icide'

people have been wholesale murdering for eons.

see: New World Conquests, Sino-Japanese wars, etc.

i can't help that you have the whole "I'm German so I must flagellate myself" thing going on, the Mongols drove hordes before them, the Romans extinguished anyone who didn't speak Latin, and the Aztecs totally extinguished the Toltecs.

put the guilt down and step away from your bad self. just because you*re more modern than Acamapichtli, doesn't mean you can beat yourself up in perpetuity.
2012-03-24 00:38:15
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6356|eXtreme to the maX

cl4u53w1t2 wrote:

no decent historian would deny the singularity of the shoah. the (main) point is that it was industrially executed genocide. another point is the actual aim to exterminate all jews (within reach of the german authorities)
Genocide is not a new thing, peoples have been put to the sword through perpetuity.
Fuck Israel
2012-03-24 00:41:54
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6356|eXtreme to the maX

13urnzz wrote:

put the guilt down and step away from your bad self. just because you*re more modern than Acamapichtli, doesn't mean you can beat yourself up in perpetuity.
German football team embroiled in Auschwitz row
The German national football team has become embroiled in a row with the country's leading Jewish organisation over whether they should visit Auschwitz during this summer's Euro 2012 tournament in Poland and Ukraine.

Dieter Graumann, head of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, has said that a visit by the team would "be more effective than a thousand commemorative speeches" and that any decision where they would not attend would be "inconceivable".

Henryk Broder, a Polish-born German-Jewish commentator, however said that a visit should not be considered.

"What are the footballers supposed to do in Auschwitz? Swear that they're sorry? Explain that this sort of thing can "never happen again?" he wrote in Der Spiegel. "The German footballers have no business going to Auschwitz. That is, unless some of them choose to go there on their own and without the cameras, for personal reasons that would make them accountable to no one."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba … z-row.html

"Inconceivable" FFS...

As Poseidon said, crimes which happened 50+ years ago aren't worth more than a frown now, time to give it a rest.
Fuck Israel
2012-03-24 04:39:18
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5835

I think the holocaust was both the worst of all genocides and the most unique. It gets those distinctions due to the it industrialization. No other genocide has had the forethought and planning of the holocaust. No other genocide has had technology play such a large role. Add to that how it was carried out- people were herded like cattle together and killed and disposed of in a assembly line like process. It's one thing to kill a bunch of people. It's another to dehumanize them to the point the Nazis did.
2012-03-24 05:23:16
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6750|so randum
^ the germans made it an industry almost
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2012-03-24 06:18:39
rdx-fx
...
+955|6841

Dilbert_X wrote:

As Poseidon said, crimes which happened 50+ years ago aren't worth more than a frown now, time to give it a rest.
He says in the Israel vs Palestine thread...
2012-03-24 06:20:52
rdx-fx
...
+955|6841

FatherTed wrote:

^ the germans made it an industry almost
Well, they did the prototyping and pilot plant.

To be fair, the Russians and Chinese perfected industrial genocide.

But if you really want craftsman-grade, handmade, personalized genocide, the middle east is still the place to go.
2012-03-24 07:23:22
cl4u53w1t2
Salon-Bolschewist
+269|6723|Kakanien

13urnzz wrote:

ok. but 'genocide =/= 'jew-icide'

people have been wholesale murdering for eons.

see: New World Conquests, Sino-Japanese wars, etc.

i can't help that you have the whole "I'm German so I must flagellate myself" thing going on, the Mongols drove hordes before them, the Romans extinguished anyone who didn't speak Latin, and the Aztecs totally extinguished the Toltecs.

put the guilt down and step away from your bad self. just because you*re more modern than Acamapichtli, doesn't mean you can beat yourself up in perpetuity.
maybe you overread industrially executed genocide and all jews. this makes the shoah a singularity. you can't compare it to the gulag archipelago, the killing fields in cambodia, the millions that died during the great leap forward or anything else. the russians, chinese, japanese, conquistadors etc. did not commit industrial genocide. and this has nothing to do with self-flagellation. any scientific approach to the shoah comes to the same conclusion

and on a side note, the roman empire was so successful and existed so long because they did not kill anyone who didn't speak latin. that's just nonsense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2oh3h3DvY0
2012-03-24 20:13:55
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6356|eXtreme to the maX

rdx-fx wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

As Poseidon said, crimes which happened 50+ years ago aren't worth more than a frown now, time to give it a rest.
He says in the Israel vs Palestine thread...
Israel vs Palestine is happening now.

The holocaust was unspeakable, but its worth remembering it wasn't just jews who died in it, nor is it the first time peoples have been put to the sword - read the Torah or Bible if you want some perspective.
Fuck Israel
2012-03-25 16:13:53
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6831|SE London

Poseidon wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

You said you yourself were accused of anti-Semitism, then go on to do the same.

If his points are so easy to dismiss then do so without the calls of Jew hater.
Nice reading bro

I'm not going to argue with some ignorant hick in Mississippi who hates Obama because he's black, either. Same logic. And so because I was accused of it falsely means I can't label anyone as it when they quite clearly are? lol. I'm not going to argue with the point that "Jews think they're superior" because how do you really disprove that to somebody who obviously has that set in his mind? He's either trolling (certainly possible knowing his post history) or he's had that mindset his entire life. Either way, not really worth doing much besides calling a spade a spade and laughing at him. Which I did.

If you don't think saying that the Jews have brought historical events like the Holocaust upon themselves is the very definition of being a bigot, I don't know what to tell you.

I know you're obsessed with Israel too, Aussie. Don't worry. I know you have overwhelmingly blind support for people who elected an internationally recognized terrorist organization in as their leaders. It's really not surprising that you're defending Dilbert at all costs.  I have always said I welcome criticism of the Israeli government as long as it's done fairly and without the incessant bitching about "stolen land" because that point is done and over with. The "native people" of that land simply depends on how far you go back.
How does that differ from supporting a country founded by an internationally recognised terrorist organisation?

Neither side is in the right. People on both sides have been thoroughly screwed over, but the fact is the Israelis are the one's who have committed more attrocities, broken more international laws and managed to get themselves a country through being very good at terrorism.

One could argue (and make a strong case for) that part of the reason terrorism has been rife in the Middle East is because the Israelis have set a precedent for showing it works to get what you want.
Uh, because we're talking about today. Today there is an elected government in the Gaza Strip that is an internationally recognized terror organization. How Israel was founded obviously wasn't rosy and there was plenty of things (Deir Yassin comes to mind) that every Israeli frowns upon, but in the formation of ANY country before modern times I'm sure you can find atrocities like that. We're talking about right now, and that is who the Gazans have decided to elect. Israeli government today is elected democratically and even Arabs are in the Knesset. But, you know... genocide!

Let me know when an Israeli walks onto a bus full of women and children and blows it up. I'm sure you'll make some asinine comparison to how Israel kills civilians in Gaza, but I can guarantee you it's almost entirely collateral damage that is not intended, and that's a part of war and you bring war on yourself when you elect a government made up of internationally renowned terrorists.
You say every Israeli frowns upon those things, yet that's simply not the case. If it isn't a majority who approve of the action taken to secure Israel for the Jews, it's certainly close. Things like the Deir Yassin massacre and the King David hotel bombing are not condemned by all Israelis as you claim - and it is that mindset that is the biggest problem.
2012-03-25 17:44:15
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6787|Long Island, New York

Bertster7 wrote:

You say every Israeli frowns upon those things, yet that's simply not the case. If it isn't a majority who approve of the action taken to secure Israel for the Jews, it's certainly close. Things like the Deir Yassin massacre and the King David hotel bombing are not condemned by all Israelis as you claim - and it is that mindset that is the biggest problem.
And how do you know? You've been there? Granted I was only there for 2 1/2 weeks and will be going back for another 2 1/2 in June, but I've spoken to probably hundreds of Israelis. One soldier I even became good friends with who is coming to NY at the end of May even called the situation in the West Bank similar to apartheid. Our tour guide called Irgun a terrorist organization. A business owner I met said he thinks the way the country was formed was not in the best terms and that the fact that any settlements are going on right now is disgusting.

I'd really like to know what basis you have for a comment like that. Again, not that 2 1/2 weeks is enough time to gauge the opinions of all Israelis, but every Israeli I met from every part of the country that I was able to discuss the situation with, whether it be in the Galil/Tel Aviv/Jerusalem/Negev, almost overwhelmingly was against any form of terror, is against settlements and wants to return to the '67 borders with the Golan Heights as long as the Palestinians 1) acknowledge Israel's existence 2) condemn terrorism 3) seek peace. As I mentioned, any Arab that wants to live in peace in Israel may, and that's why you even see Arabs in the Knesset.
2012-03-25 17:46:20
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5835

I guess that propaganda trip Israel paid for worked.
2012-03-25 17:49:02
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6787|Long Island, New York
Another useless post from BF2s' resident socially inept troll. Looks like it's time to add king no friends to the ignore list.
2012-03-25 18:20:13
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6403|what

Poseidon, did you cross into Palestine at all? Or just stay behind the giant concrete walls the whole time?

Know it's hard to miss it, since Palestine just gets smaller and smaller each year.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2012-03-25 18:25:58
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6787|Long Island, New York

AussieReaper wrote:

Poseidon, did you cross into Palestine at all? Or just stay behind the giant concrete walls the whole time?

Know it's hard to miss it, since Palestine just gets smaller and smaller each year.
Yeah, you mean those big concrete walls which have led to Israelis being able to step onto a bus without fear of being blown to bits?
2012-03-25 18:32:31
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6403|what

Poseidon wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Poseidon, did you cross into Palestine at all? Or just stay behind the giant concrete walls the whole time?

Know it's hard to miss it, since Palestine just gets smaller and smaller each year.
Yeah, you mean those big concrete walls which have led to Israelis being able to step onto a bus without fear of being blown to bits?
No I mean the walls that have turned Palestinians into prisoners in their own country.

So the answer is no?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2012-03-25 18:42:59
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6787|Long Island, New York

AussieReaper wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Poseidon, did you cross into Palestine at all? Or just stay behind the giant concrete walls the whole time?

Know it's hard to miss it, since Palestine just gets smaller and smaller each year.
Yeah, you mean those big concrete walls which have led to Israelis being able to step onto a bus without fear of being blown to bits?
No I mean the walls that have turned Palestinians into prisoners in their own country.

So the answer is no?
Since my cousin who I stayed with after my initial trip is a US diplomat, he receives special access to certain areas. We went into Bethlehem for a few hours on Christmas, going back after seeing how crowded it was. The answer is actually yes.

The wall only went up as a deterrent to suicide bombings and terrorism, and it's worked beautifully. Is it a perfect solution? Of course not, because it does restrict movement and does create a terrible situation for some villages which are split in half. But guess what? That sucks. I'd rather see the wall up and aid sent in than see Israelis under the thread of suicide bombing on a daily basis.

I'm against settlements and I've repeated that several times. Shit, the fucking tour guide who is selected and vetted by Israel called the settlers "radicals". And again, I'd be fine with the '67 borders as long as Israel is recognized and they choose to live in peace. If they as a whole choose to go the way of terrorism (much like the people in the Gaza Strip did by choosing a terrorist organization to lead them), well, guess what? That sucks. If you choose to be lead by terrorists, you'll be treated like them.
2012-03-26 00:07:30
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6356|eXtreme to the maX

Poseidon wrote:

The wall only went up as a deterrent to suicide bombings and terrorism, and it's worked beautifully. Is it a perfect solution? Of course not, because it does restrict movement and does create a terrible situation for some villages which are split in half. But guess what? That sucks. I'd rather see the wall up and aid sent in than see Israelis under the thread of suicide bombing on a daily basis.
Its very much a one way wall though isn't it? The Israelis are free to come and go, seize more land, kill Palestinians as they like, the Palestinians are prevented from retaliating.

I'd really like to know what basis you have for a comment like that. Again, not that 2 1/2 weeks is enough time to gauge the opinions of all Israelis, but every Israeli I met from every part of the country that I was able to discuss the situation with, whether it be in the Galil/Tel Aviv/Jerusalem/Negev, almost overwhelmingly was against any form of terror, is against settlements and wants to return to the '67 borders with the Golan Heights
Then why do they keep electing the likes of Netanyahu and Lieberman?
Where is the political candidate or party which is promoting peace as an agenda?
If Israelis vote en-masse for anti-peace pro-settlement governemnts its reasonable to conclude that Israelis on the average are anti-peace and pro-settlement.

as long as the Palestinians 1) acknowledge Israel's existence 2) condemn terrorism 3) seek peace.
They've done all that years ago, whats the holdup? Continued settlement building, expansion of borders and this non-sensical demand that the Palestinians recognise Israel as an exclusively jewish state.
As I mentioned, any Arab that wants to live in peace in Israel may
Bullshit.
If they as a whole choose to go the way of terrorism (much like the people in the Gaza Strip did by choosing a terrorist organization to lead them), well, guess what? That sucks. If you choose to be lead by terrorists, you'll be treated like them.
So, if a nation is founded by terrorists and war criminals, regularly elects terrorists and war criminals to government and routinely commits acts of terror and war crimes, routinely elects anti-peace pro-aggression governments - how should they be treated?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-03-26 05:49:25)

Fuck Israel
2012-03-26 02:57:18
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6403|what

Poseidon wrote:

The wall only went up as a deterrent to suicide bombings and terrorism, and it's worked beautifully. Is it a perfect solution? Of course not, because it does restrict movement and does create a terrible situation for some villages which are split in half. But guess what? That sucks. I'd rather see the wall up and aid sent in than see Israelis under the thread of suicide bombing on a daily basis.
So the "threat" of suicide bombing is enough to justify actual terrible situation of Palestinian villages cut in half and then decimated?

You realise that cutting villages in half wipes out those villages, yeah?

Israel has created a ghetto, and you're fine with it.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2012-03-26 05:48:53
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6356|eXtreme to the maX
Thats how it works, needle until a reaction is provoked, overreact and seize your immediate objectives, repeat until all your objectives are achieved.

Much easier to achieve with the world watching than simply exterminating them in one go - there's CNN now, unlike the last time Palestine was seized.
Fuck Israel
2012-03-26 05:58:40
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5509|foggy bottom
fwp
Tu Stultus Es
2012-03-26 10:00:47
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6787|Long Island, New York

AussieReaper wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

The wall only went up as a deterrent to suicide bombings and terrorism, and it's worked beautifully. Is it a perfect solution? Of course not, because it does restrict movement and does create a terrible situation for some villages which are split in half. But guess what? That sucks. I'd rather see the wall up and aid sent in than see Israelis under the thread of suicide bombing on a daily basis.
So the "threat" of suicide bombing is enough to justify actual terrible situation of Palestinian villages cut in half and then decimated?

You realise that cutting villages in half wipes out those villages, yeah?

Israel has created a ghetto, and you're fine with it.
There was this timeline of events called the "Second Intifada". Google it, it's interesting history!

Did I not just say that I wish a better alternative was in place? Once again you selectively read what you want. But overall, I choose it over the threat of suicide bombings. Which happened at a consistent rate when the wall wasn't up and the West Bank wasn't extremely secured.

As for Mr. Bigot's claim of bullshit in terms of Arabs being able to live in peace in Israel should they choose to, he can shoot it down all he wants, the simple fact is it's true. For example, the town of Abu Ghosh which I visited. Overwhelmingly Arab town close to the border of the West Bank. Also the town of Akko. They conduct business and their everyday lives with Israelis just fine. Also, the Bedouins and Druze - both have lived in Israel and choose to live in peace.
2012-03-26 11:29:25
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5835

Macbeth wrote:

I guess that propaganda trip Israel paid for worked.
I bet he had some sort of spiritual experience.
2012-03-26 11:57:10
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|6982|Cambridge, England
Jesus. How would any of your countries react to terrorist attacks?

The UK invaded Afghanistan and has occupied it for 10 years because their friends the Americans were attacked and here are you lot getting pissed about a wall.

Of course it is completely different because nobody here lives in Israel therefore we can preach from our high horses about all the shite thats happening. How do you stop suicide bombers in the short and immediate term?

Im not interested in the history lesson, they are where they are. How do they stop them?

Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2012-03-26 11:57:47)

2012-03-26 12:03:13
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6787|Long Island, New York

Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:

Jesus. How would any of your countries react to terrorist attacks?

The UK invaded Afghanistan and has occupied it for 10 years because their friends the Americans were attacked and here are you lot getting pissed about a wall.

Of course it is completely different because nobody here lives in Israel therefore we can preach from our high horses about all the shite thats happening. How do you stop suicide bombers in the short and immediate term?

Im not interested in the history lesson, they are where they are. How do they stop them?
Ssshhh. The aid that goes in is all a part of their secret plan to commit genocide. The Arabs living peacefully in Israel and serving in government? All a part of the Final Solution.

 

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