Last edited by Poseidon (2012-03-22 17:41:57)
I support the civilians. Care to place a bet on which group of civilians is suffering in the conflict?Poseidon wrote:
I know you're obsessed with Israel too, Aussie. Don't worry. I know you have overwhelmingly blind support for people who elected an internationally recognized terrorist organization in as their leaders. It's really not surprising that you're defending Dilbert at all costs. I have always said I welcome criticism of the Israeli government as long as it's done fairly and without the incessant bitching about "stolen land" because that point is done and over with. The "native people" of that land simply depends on how far you go back.
So do I. Any civilian, regardless of ethnicity and/or religion is free to live in the nation of Israel with no threat to their well being as long as they plan on living a normal life. You can also be in an unfortunate situation where you live in an area like the Gaza Strip yet where the people who were elected to lead you are a terrorist organization. That sucks. Don't elect terrorist organizations to lead you.AussieReaper wrote:
I support the civilians.
Maybe, just maybe, it's because they elected a terrorist organization that constantly lobs rockets at the mainland to lead them. That could be it. Just maybe. And even then, Israel still sends in aid on a near daily basis. What most countries would do throughout the history of the world would be to go in and destroy them.Care to place a bet on which group of civilians is suffering in the conflict? I'll give you a hint, it's the ones who are living in ghetto like conditions because a wall surrounds them and they have their land taken and hones bulldozed.
And before they were democratically elected that same organization was widely supported in their efforts to step onto a bus from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv packed with women and children and detonate a bomb vest strapped to their chest.Using the Hamas government as an excuse to do that doesn't fly, especially considering it's been happening since before they were democratically elected.
You mean like these guys?If Israel's 10% are to blame, where are the protests and anti-government movements against the war?
Obviously it's a disproportionate number, but as has been asked to you and others throughout the years, what response do you really expect them to carry out? They have the Iron Dome up just as a basic protection right now. Retaliation should be expected, and when they hide amongst civilian populations, death tolls are not surprising. Unfortunate, but not surprising. Commit an act of war when you're a democratically elected government and you should probably expect retaliation.I feel for the rocket attack victims, truly. But when compared to the shelling of civilians and use of chemical weapons? (oops that was an accident)
Last edited by Doctor Strangelove (2012-03-22 20:03:07)
because it's partly true?Poseidon wrote:
Why bother countering someone's "points" who claims that things like the Holocaust, the pogroms in Russia and other events in history were brought upon by them?Shahter wrote:
because he's nothing else to counter your points with i recon.Dilbert_X wrote:
And why is that?
or maybe, as i said, you have no argument.There is no sense arguing with someone like that.
Last edited by Shahter (2012-03-22 23:07:09)
The fact is, every race or nation which has come into contact with the jews has 'persecuted' them, through expulsion, containment in ghettos or pogroms - right back to Roman times, no wait, Egyptian times.Poseidon wrote:
If you don't think saying that the Jews have brought historical events like the Holocaust upon themselves is the very definition of being a bigot, I don't know what to tell you.
The election of Hamas was simply an inevitable response to more than half a century of Israeli terrorism and an existential threat to their existence - just as the Zionist use of terrorism against the British and the Palestinians comes from similar existential threats - Why is that so difficult to grasp? - except the British were trying to help the jews and Palestinians were just in the way.Today there is an elected government in the Gaza Strip that is an internationally recognized terror organization. How Israel was founded obviously wasn't rosy and there was plenty of things (Deir Yassin comes to mind) that every Israeli frowns upon, but in the formation of ANY country before modern times I'm sure you can find atrocities like that. We're talking about right now, and that is who the Gazans have decided to elect. Israeli government today is elected democratically and even Arabs are in the Knesset. But, you know... genocide!
Lets see, early Israeli governments were made up of internationally renowned terrorists - thats apparently only worth a brief frown, in the early days of Israel they were doing exactly that, planting bombs in markets to slaughter women and children, and the settler actions in the West Bank now are very similar although its more a steady, piecemeal approach.Let me know when an Israeli walks onto a bus full of women and children and blows it up. I'm sure you'll make some asinine comparison to how Israel kills civilians in Gaza, but I can guarantee you it's almost entirely collateral damage that is not intended, and that's a part of war and you bring war on yourself when you elect a government made up of internationally renowned terrorists.
'Most Israelis' and I know quite a few, are happy to sit back and do nothing, enjoying living in someone elses country, voting for turds like Netanyahu paying their taxes to fund the theft of more land and the slaughter of more civilians - just as the average German didn't complain as their lebensraum was expanded and their standard of living improved at the expense of their neighbours.And most Israelis, had you ever met one (but I'm sure your reading of news articles is good enough for you) are against the settlements in the West Bank. Every single Israeli I've ever spoken to is against the settlements. The ones who are for it are the less than 10% of the country that is ultra orthodox. I'm sure you're one of the people who saw the riots in Beit Shemesh and thought "Wow, Israelis hate women!".
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-03-23 04:36:41)
Russians are stupid, lazy, ignorant peasants who deserve no place on this Earth.Shahter wrote:
because it's partly true?Poseidon wrote:
Why bother countering someone's "points" who claims that things like the Holocaust, the pogroms in Russia and other events in history were brought upon by them?Shahter wrote:
because he's nothing else to counter your points with i recon.or maybe, as i said, you have no argument.There is no sense arguing with someone like that.
those things you've been throwing around - "holocaust" and "anti-semitism" - those are but words invented by - surprise! - jews to give special names, and, thus, meaning, to something that doesn't exist as a separate historical event or societal phenomenon. why's there no special name for black-hating? why was no special recognition given to the atrocities committed by, say, british in their colonies? what's so special about jews again? slavs had it worse than jews from nazies - do you see us demanding anything for that or accusing anybody of "bigotry" for not treating us like we are something special? that's what dilbert's talking about, only he's not very good at it and does sometime come up as if he just hates jews for being jews, but, c'mon, for anyone who's not at it to defend jew/israel (or, indeed, bash dilbert) it's clear what he's talking about.
Would you debate someone on a topic like that? I sure wouldn't. There's a reason he's been accused of trolling pretty much since the day he registered here.Trollbert wrote:
The fact is, every race or nation which has come into contact with the blacks has 'persecuted' them, through slavery, containment in ghettos or - right back to Roman times, no wait, Egyptian times.
Either every human being on earth in the last 2,000 years was born a hater of blacks - or .... you explain it.
Doctor Strangelove wrote:
But we can all agree that Estonians suck.
Cybargs wrote:
i blame the british for the middle east and africa's problem. dilbert should pay reparations since he's a brit innit
"no"? i've been arguing with half of those who visit this forum and talk about russians like that.Poseidon wrote:
Russians are stupid, lazy, ignorant peasants who deserve no place on this Earth.Shahter wrote:
because it's partly true?Poseidon wrote:
Why bother countering someone's "points" who claims that things like the Holocaust, the pogroms in Russia and other events in history were brought upon by them?or maybe, as i said, you have no argument.There is no sense arguing with someone like that.
those things you've been throwing around - "holocaust" and "anti-semitism" - those are but words invented by - surprise! - jews to give special names, and, thus, meaning, to something that doesn't exist as a separate historical event or societal phenomenon. why's there no special name for black-hating? why was no special recognition given to the atrocities committed by, say, british in their colonies? what's so special about jews again? slavs had it worse than jews from nazies - do you see us demanding anything for that or accusing anybody of "bigotry" for not treating us like we are something special? that's what dilbert's talking about, only he's not very good at it and does sometime come up as if he just hates jews for being jews, but, c'mon, for anyone who's not at it to defend jew/israel (or, indeed, bash dilbert) it's clear what he's talking about.
See, now would you argue with someone like that? No.
it is you who are "bitching". i say that, looking at the history of the world, "holocaust" is nothing special. yet it somehow "caught on" and did it so that in some places it's now a criminal offence to question it's significance. one could deny anything, from chingiz khan up to stalin, but question holocaust and it's all "oh, noes, jail the bastard". why's that?Are you really bitching about the etymology of the words "antisemitism" and "holocaust" because it's a word used to describe hating Jews and a historical event? lol. Grasp at straws more, please. Jesus. I've never seen someone bitch about something so much because a certain word was given to an event to describe one of the worst mass murders in the entire history of the planet. The term "Holocaust" itself was first written by one writer and caught on. Probably because it's a lot easier than saying "The mass slaughter of Jews, Gypsies, Blacks and others from 1933-1945 in Europe under Adolf Hitler's rule". That could be it. Seems so crazy!
why not?Would you debate someone on a topic like that?Trollbert wrote:
The fact is, every race or nation which has come into contact with the blacks has 'persecuted' them, through slavery, containment in ghettos or - right back to Roman times, no wait, Egyptian times.
Either every human being on earth in the last 2,000 years was born a hater of blacks - or .... you explain it.
then don't. calling dilbert names doesn't accomplish anything. and he, as i mentioned earlier, does have a point - he's just not very good at getting it through. you don't think he's worth it? - don't reply to him.I sure wouldn't.
maybe. it's not for me to judge. i think he has a point, you don't, yet you continue bullshitting him - why?There's a reason he's been accused of trolling pretty much since the day he registered here.
How am I bitching? I'm not the one making a big deal over a word given to an event to sum up a span of 12 years. Gee, maybe it's had far reach because people who witnessed it are still alive and we live in a world of global communication as compared to the time of Genghis Khan? And who says I disagree with you with people being jailed over denying the Holocaust? I actually agree. I think it's, to be blunt, retarded.Shahter wrote:
it is you who are "bitching". i say that, looking at the history of the world, "holocaust" is nothing special. yet it somehow "caught on" and did it so that in some places it's now a criminal offence to question it's significance. one could deny anything, from chingiz khan up to stalin, but question holocaust and it's all "oh, noes, jail the bastard". why's that?
No-one here has said anything like that in relation to the jews. I've simply asked you to put forward a more convincing explanation for the historical persecution over the last few millenia than everyone on earth is 'anti-semitic'.Poseidon wrote:
Russians are stupid, lazy, ignorant peasants who deserve no place on this Earth.
I don't care about jews feeling special, everyone feels special, I'm just pointing out that the extreme to which they take their world-view is counterproductive to their own interests, but they are so wrapped up in their belief they can't even see it....Dilbert is not complaining about Jews "feeling special". The core point of his original post was the sentiment that Jews have brought everything onto themselves including the Holocaust. And I maintain that it is not worth debating. And I'll show you why.
I don't see what's unreasonable, if you're going to close your mind and accuse everyone who has an opinion you don't like of being 'anti-semitic' then you're just playing to stereotype and reinforcing the widely held view that jews, on the average, are superior close-minded bigots who don't like having their views or actions scrutinised and personally attack anyone who does.Would you debate someone on a topic like that? I sure wouldn't.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2012-03-23 16:31:27)
lol. go read a (non russian) history bookShahter wrote:
looking at the history of the world, "holocaust" is nothing special
