BF2S Forums Israel and Palestine

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieberman_Plan

You should read your own cited sources, Dilbert.

the plan does not call for any forcible removal of anyone from their home. The plan, instead, simply redraws the border between Palestinian and Israeli communities to make them more homogeneous (i.e., nearby Arab communities are redrawn to be included in the Palestinian Territory, while nearby Jewish territories are redrawn to be included in Israel).

That is not ethnic cleansing. Not even close.

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just saying it's not ethnic cleansing. Learn what terms mean before you start bandying them about.

Dilbert_X wrote:

If all the Israeli-Arabs have their citizenship revoked they will be expelled en-masse.

Dilbert_X wrote:

They're having the land stolen from under their feet and have been since the beginning, they'll have their citizenship cancelled too shortly.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

They're having the land stolen from under their feet and have been since the beginning, they'll have their citizenship cancelled too shortly.

How is having two autonomous areas "having land stolen from under their feet"? Sounds like the exact opposite, actually.

And that proposal hasn't been adopted, has it? Didn't think so. Even if it is adopted, they will have Palestinian citizenship, so they will not be stateless. That proposal relies on a two-state solution being in place. No state, no citizenship to swap, which is what the proposal is talking about: swapping Israeli citizenship for some other citizenship (ie, prerequisite being a state from which to acquire citizenship) where Israeli is not the predominant group in the area.

Again: not defending it as a good idea, just trying to put your trollish hyperbole into perspective.

The ones in the jewish area will be kicked out and lose their homes, whether or not they want to 'swap'.

Generally speaking, land transfer, as opposed to population transfer, is legal under both International and Israeli law. The Israeli precedent was exemplified in 1979 when Israel agreed to transfer the Sinai Desert in exchange for peace with Egypt. The issue that arises with this plan is the transfer of populated territories and the revocation of citizenship for those in the transferred areas.[6] Even this, in principle, seems to be legal under international law.[12]
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However, a study by Timothy Waters argued that if conducted under a bilateral agreement, transferring territory and revoking the citizenship of those in that territory is permissible under international law, so long as the residents do not become stateless and that their human rights are not violated. According to international law and precedent, states have the right to transfer territory, even against the wishes of the population, so long as other rights of the population are not violated.[14] The Universal Declaration of Human Rights guarantees individuals the right to a nationality, and indicates that one cannot be arbitrarily deprived of their nationality. This conforms to the 1961 Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness. But, the Lieberman Plan does not violate these rights, since it would cause former Israeli citizens to become citizens of a Palestinian state. The issue under international law seems to be about causing statelessness of individuals, as opposed to transferring the citizenship of individuals from one state to another. In fact, “The very terms of the Statelessness Convention indicate that large-scale transfers of populations between states can in fact occur.”[15]

Dilbert_X wrote:

It is ironic that they wail about that when its exactly what they're "planning to do" doing to Palestine.

Dilbert_X wrote:

The plan is to cleanse them all, its not going to plan at present.