BF2S Forums Israel and Palestine

Dilbert_X wrote:

US

Dilbert, interesting gem here for you;

evilUSA wrote:

United States security assistance to the Palestinian Authority (PA) has been provided since the PA was established by the Oslo Accords in the mid-1990s. The security assistance was given on an ad hoc basis and often covert at the outset. Since 2005 the U.S. State Department has provided direct financial and personnel assistance to Palestinian security organizations when they established the office of the United States Security Coordinator (USSC) for Israel and the Palestinian territories through their Bureau for International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs (INL). In 2007 the USSC team began training certain Palestinian Authority Security Forces (PASF) including the Palestinian National Security Forces (NSF) and the Presidential Guard with the intent to train, equip, and garrison 10 NSF battalions by the end of 2010.

details wrote:

Mission

According to Lt. Gen. Dayton in his seminal speech[28] on the subject to the Washington Institute for Near East Policy in May 2009 the mission of the USSC is:

    to coordinate various international donors under one plan of action that would eliminate duplication of effort. It was to mobilize additional resources and to allay Israeli fears about the nature and capabilities of the Palestinian Security forces. The USSC was to help the Palestinian Authority to right–size its force and advise them on the restructuring and training necessary to improve their ability, to enforce the rule of law, and make them accountable to the leadership of the Palestinian people whom they serve.[29][30]

In the speech, Dayton laid out four major investments and accomplishments of the USSC under his tenure:

   1. Train and Equip—"we have focused on transforming the Palestinian national security forces into a Palestinian gendarme—an organized police force or police units."
   2. Capacity Building in the Ministry of Interior—"we have invested considerable funds and personnel into making the ministry a leading arm of the Palestinian government with a capacity to budget, to think strategically, and to plan operationally."
   3. Infrastructure—"we have worked with Palestinian contractors to build a state–of–the–art training college for the Presidential Guard in Jericho as well as a brand new operational base that will house...one thousand of the returning NSF gendarmes...."
   4. Senior Leadership Training—"we get thirty-six men from all the security services together and they learn how to think about current–day problems and how to operate jointly and with respect for international standards."[24]

[edit] Location

The USSC Headquarters is a building at the U.S. consulate in West Jerusalem. US staff have significant travel restrictions in the region due to State Department rules, but foreign workers and US contractors do not face the same rules, and some of those staff are based in Ramallah in the West Bank.[21]
[edit] Personnel

The staff of the USSC numbers about 45 persons, including American and Canadian military officers along with British and Turkish officers and US civilians. Up to 16 people in the Jerusalem office are US military staff while around 17 Canadian military personnel and two British military staff work in Ramallah. USSC has staff at the US Embassy in Tel Aviv as well. DynCorp International, a US private contractor, provides 28 civilian employees. There are additional staff from the US foreign service serving in the INL office in Jerusalem who oversee the use of program funds for the USSC and they are also responsible for the contractors. INL staff and contractors manage the warehouses of equipment and also manage the West Bank infrastructure construction projects.[31]

DynCorp contractors staff "Mobile Training Teams" (MTT) to train the NSF battalions in Jordan and to staff the Strategic Planning Directorate (SPD), the office opened in 2007 to assist strategic capacity building of the Ministry of the Interior in its attempt to exert civilian control over the PA Security Forces.[32]

The USSC staff report to the Secretary of State through their Near East and Asia Bureau and to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.[33]
[edit] Funds allocated

The USSC team had no project funding until 2007, when it received its first Congressional appropriation in Fiscal Year 2007. All of the funding has been allocated through appropriations to the Bureau for International Narcotics Control and Law Enforcement (INL) at the State Department.[27]

    * FY 2007—$86.4 Million
    * FY 2008—$25 Million
    * FY 2008 Supplemental—$50 Million
    * FY 2009—$25 Million
    * FY 2009 Supplemental—$106 Million
    * FY 2010—$100 Million[16][34][35]

State Department appropriations to the USSC under Lt. Gen. Dayton totaled $392 million from 2007–2010 with a request of $150 million for fiscal year 2011 still outstanding.[36]

Over $160 million of the total has been allocated for the PASF training program. Equipment provision to the PA NSF and Presidential Guard has totaled around $89 million and $99 million has been invested in construction of infrastructure. Capacity building programs for the Palestinian Ministry of the Interior have been funded at $22 million to date.[34]

For FY 2011, $150 million has been requested for training ($56 million), equipment ($33 million), infrastructure ($53 million) and capacity building projects ($3 million).[37]

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Plenty of blame to go around Aussie, but the bottom line is, there is no compromise to be had, especially with Islam.

Islamaphobe.

more cherry picking Aussie?  Is there any chance at all that you will address the fact that the Islamic nations are not interested in peace with Israel?

lowing wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

Dilbert? were you gunna link us to anything supporting your argument? Like the reason the revolts in the ME is because of Israel and not their own oppression,  or a sovereign nation of Palestine? Or is this just gunna be listed with your other "facts" that you can never prove?

and pleaae leave the Nazis out of your "argument".

I explained it already, US support for Mubarak was predicated on Mubarak supporting Israel against the will of the Egyption people.
They didn't like being oppressed or their will being ignored, oppression came first probably.

Now they're free of Mubarak their opinion is very much against the US and Israel.
Is that what we call blowback? Seems to have happened in every single ME country the US has meddled with.

still waiting for links supporting your position that the ME revolts are because of Israel and not their own oppression, you gunna post them or not?

I never said they were, just that in Egypt its one of the factors, and a secondary factor behind the oppression.
So I won't be posting links to back up something I never said.

lowing wrote:

Is there any chance at all that you will address the fact that the Islamic nations are not interested in peace with Israel?

Links plz - up to date ones, not from 50 years ago.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Right, $2bn a year to Mubarak and $2.4m a year to NGOs covering many things besides opposition political parties.

Do you see a problem there?

Mubarak's been exiled?

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

I explained it already, US support for Mubarak was predicated on Mubarak supporting Israel against the will of the Egyption people.
They didn't like being oppressed or their will being ignored, oppression came first probably.

Now they're free of Mubarak their opinion is very much against the US and Israel.
Is that what we call blowback? Seems to have happened in every single ME country the US has meddled with.

still waiting for links supporting your position that the ME revolts are because of Israel and not their own oppression, you gunna post them or not?

I never said they were, just that in Egypt its one of the factors, and a secondary factor behind the oppression.
So I won't be posting links to back up something I never said.

lowing wrote:

Is there any chance at all that you will address the fact that the Islamic nations are not interested in peace with Israel?

Links plz - up to date ones, not from 50 years ago.

lol oh because they don't count huh? like Israel withdrawls?

ok
  “Let us work together until we achieve victory and regain liberated Jerusalem.”

— Yasser Arafat,
Baghdad Republic of Iraq Radio Network, November 16, 1991



“...Allah willing, this unjust state...Israel will be erased; this unjust state, the United States will be erased; this unjust state, Britain will be erased...Blessings to whoever waged Jihad for the sake of Allah...Blessings to whoever put a belt of explosives on his body or on his sons' and plunged into the midst of the Jews...”

— Sermon by Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi
a few days after Yasser Arafat's cease-fire declaration
PA Television, June 8, 2001




“We said from the beginning that there is no ceasefire for the settlers.”

— Fatah leader, Ziad ibu-Aid,
International Herald Tribune, June 20, 2001




“Just as Ramallah, Gaza, Nablus, and Jenin are Palestinian cities, so are Haifa, Nazareth, Jaffa, Ramle, Lod, Beersheba, Safed, and others Palestinian cities....The Zionist Jews are foreigners in this land. They have no right to live or settle in it. They should go somewhere else in the world to establish their state and their false entity...They must leave their homes...We do not believe in so-called 'peace with Israel' because peace cannot be made with Satan. Israel is the greatest Satan.”

— Palestinian Christian cleric Father 'Atallah Hanna,
sermon in the Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Jerusalem, January 19, 2003



“Our position is clear: all of Palestine. Every inch of Palestine belongs to the Muslims.”

— Mahmoud Zahar, senior leader of Hamas,
Quoted in the Jerusalem Post, November 14, 2003




“We will continue our martyrdom operations inside Israel until all our lands are liberated, by God's will....We won't lay down our weapons as long as Jerusalem and the West Bank are under occupation.’

— Muhamemd Hijazi, commander of a Fatah- affiliated militias in the Gaza Strip
Jerusalem Post, September 12, 2005



“We will not rest and will not abandon the path of Jihad and martyrdom as long as one inch of our land remained in the hands of the Jews.”

— Raed Saed, a senior Hamas leader
Ynet News, September 19, 2005



“First of all this Palestinian land, and all the Arabic nation, is all part of the same area. In the past, there was no independent Palestinian state; there was no independent Jordanian state; and so on. There were regions called Iraq or Egypt, but they were all part of one country....Our main goal is to establish a great Islamic state, be it pan-Arabic or pan-Islamic.”

— Mahmoud A-Zahhar, the leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip
The Media Line, September 22, 2005



“By Allah, I will drive them crazy. By Allah, I will turn this agreement into a curse for them. By Allah, perhaps not in my lifetime, but you will live to see the Israelis flee from Palestine. Have a little patience.”

— Al-Quds Al-Arabi Editor-in-Chief Abd Al-Bari Atwan
on Arafat's comments to him regarding the Oslo agreement
ANB TV, February 16, 2006




“The Palestinian people accepted the Oslo agreements as a first step and not as a permanent arrangement, based on the premise that the war and struggle on the ground [i.e., locally against Israeli territory] is more efficient than a struggle from a distant land... for the Palestinian people will continue the revolution until they achieve the goals of the '65 revolution...”

— PA Minister of Supply Abd El Aziz Shahian,
Al Ayaam, May 30, 2000.



“Our people have hope for the future, that the Occupation State ceases to exist, and that it makes no difference [how great] its power and arrogance...”.

— PA Minister of Communications, Amad Alfalugi,
Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, November 18, 1999




“When we picked up the gun in '65 and the modern Palestinian Revolution began, it had a goal. This goal has not changed and it is the liberation of Palestine.”

— Salim Alwadia Abu Salem, Supervisor of Palestinian Political Affairs,
Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, January 20, 2000




“If we agree to declare our state over what is now 22 percent of Palestine, meaning the West Bank and Gaza, our ultimate goal is the liberation of all historic Palestine from the River to the Sea...We distinguish the strategic, long-term goals from the political phased goals, which we are compelled to temporarily accept due to international pressure.”

— Faisal al-Husseini,
Al-Arabi, June 24, 2001




“Israel is much smaller than Iran in land mass, and therefore far more vulnerable to nuclear attack.”

— Former Iranian President Ali Rafsanjani,
quoted in Jerusalem Report, March 11, 2002




“We defeated the Crusaders 800 years ago and we will defeat the enemies of Islam today.”

— Nazareth Deputy Mayor Salman Abu Ahmed,
quoted in Jerusalem Report, March 4, 2002




“...we shall return to the 1967 borders, but it does not mean that we have given up on Jerusalem and Haifa, Jaffa, Lod, Ramla, Nayanyah [Al-Zuhour] and Tel Aviv [Tel Al-Rabia]. Never. We shall return to every village we had been expelled from, by Allah's will....Our approval to return to the 1967 borders is not a concession for our other rights. No!..this generation might not achieve this stage, but generations will come, and the land of Palestine...will demand that the Palestinians return the way Muhammad returned there, as a conqueror.”    ( hmmmm )

— Sheikh Ibrahim Mudyris,
Friday sermon, February 4, 2005



Hamas would “definitely not” be prepared for coexistence with Israel should the IDF retreat to its 1967 borders. “It can be a temporary solution, for a maximum of 5 to 10 years. But in the end Palestine must return to become Muslim, and in the long term Israel will disappear from the face of the earth.”    (well so much for the '67 borders.)

— Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar
Yediot Ahronot, June 24, 2005



“Our brothers in Jerusalem and the West Bank, I am sure that Gaza is just the beginning of the process… In the next phase, we will defeat the occupation [in your area]… Residents of Occupied Palestine of 1948, in my name and in the name of all Gaza Strip residents, I ask you for your assistance to us and to our Jihad… We shall not rest until our entire holy land is liberated….”

— Muhammad Deif,
Commander of the 'Izz Al-Din Al-Qassem Brigades,
the military wing of Hamas,
August 27, 2005




“We use one voice in all forums. But we also say that we are dealing realistically with the current phase - an independent Palestinian state with full sovereignty over the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. That is what we presented to our people in our elections platform."

Interviewer: “Is this a partial or phased solution?”

Musa Abu Marzouq: “Yes, it is a temporary and phased solution. This is not the permanent solution.”

— Interview with Hamas Political Bureau deputy head Musa Abu Marzouq,
Dream 2 TV (Sudan), February 13, 2006




anyway, so much for that.

lowing wrote:

We said from the beginning that there is no ceasefire for the settlers.

Seems reasonable.

As for the rest, you were going to look for statements from other nations sating they would never make peace with Israel, not comments by Palestinians

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-02-24 17:30:41)

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

We said from the beginning that there is no ceasefire for the settlers.

Seems reasonable.

As for the rest, you were going to look for statements from other nations sating they would never make peace with Israel, not comments by Palestinians

uhhh Dilbert, these were quotes from the people fighting Israel, you know, kinda sorta the ones that count in determining peace??


would quotes from Osama Bin Laden, or the Iranian president Mamoud Afhgglheasfjkhsvbsdblgdod count?

Last edited by lowing (2011-02-24 17:54:59)

AussieReaper wrote:

If Israel are only defending themselves.

If Israel are only protecting what is theirs.

If Israel only cares about existing.

Why are the Palestinian territories shrinking? Why are Palestinian homes being demolished and replaced with a wall? Why is that wall moved further and Israel homes built where the Palestinian homes once stood?

Oh you mean you are  not going to argue that Islam is interested in peace in Israel anymore? We are gunna move on? Ok lets.


Why are they shrinking, because Israel stomps a mud hole in every territory where attacks are being launched.

Why are Palestinian homes being replaced with a wall? because Israel stomps a mud hole in every territory where attacks are being launched, then walls them out.

Last edited by lowing (2011-02-24 18:38:52)

lowing wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

We said from the beginning that there is no ceasefire for the settlers.

Seems reasonable.

As for the rest, you were going to look for statements from other nations sating they would never make peace with Israel, not comments by Palestinians

uhhh Dilbert, these were quotes from the people fighting Israel, you know, kinda sorta the ones that count in determining peace??


would quotes from Osama Bin Laden, or the Iranian president Mamoud Afhgglheasfjkhsvbsdblgdod count?

You said no Islamic nation would ever make peace with Israel.
You have nothing to back that up.

Well done.

AussieReaper wrote:

And you don't see a problem with that?

You don't know why they are lobbing rockets over the border do you? You just think it's cause they are evil Muslims. Is that it?

If Islam were to lay down their weapons right now, there would be peace. If Israel were to lay down their weapons right now there would be no Israel.

No, I don't see a problem with defending yourself from attacks by beating those that do it.

Islamic nations have started at least 4 major conflicts ( probably more)  in the past 70 years against Israel.

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

And you don't see a problem with that?

You don't know why they are lobbing rockets over the border do you? You just think it's cause they are evil Muslims. Is that it?

If Islam were to lay down their weapons right now, there would be peace. If Israel were to lay down their weapons right now there would be no Israel.

No, I don't see a problem with defending yourself from attacks by beating those that do it.

Islamic nations have started at least 4 major conflicts ( probably more)  in the past 70 years against Israel.

Israel started the first conflict IIRC, they haven't been beaten back yet.

If the allies had laid down their arms in 1940 there would have been peace.
Is that your plan for world peace? Surrender to aggressors?

I said they are not interested in peace with Israel, the Islamic goal is and has always been the destruction of Israel and the reclaiming of the holy lands for Muslims. and I just gave you countless quotes from those engaged in that war right now, claiming that position.

Was looking for recent quotes from Islamic countries other than Palestine, for you to back up your claim that no Islamic country will ever make peace with Israel.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-02-25 04:10:28)