you are right dilbert, I forgot I was addressing the master of misquotes AND butchering of context.Dilbert_X wrote:
This was the question:Much of the British and Soviet bombing of German cities was in retaliation for german bombing of cities, there was at least equivalence.Well if you can point out to me any sanctioned US mission that purposely target innocent women and children I would be an a better position to accept your observation.
The US does not have that argument.
Well I offered the argument that Islam's period of discovery was mainly due to conquering and by non-muslims. Sorry if that argument isn't gpod enough.Bertster7 wrote:
OK, and what have you done to counter that argument? Not a lot from what I see.lowing wrote:
actually I was not. The Islamic golden age was offered up as proof for how great Islam is.Bertster7 wrote:
No one here is talking about now. You're the one who started talking about the Islamic golden age, stick to the point.
If arguing that Islam was more restrictive to progress than Christianity through that era, the points about women and gays are not relevant.
So, how do you justify the "especially Islam" point below?lowing wrote:
Religion especially Islam does not encourage outside the box thinking therefore can not take credit for any discoveries under its rule.
Because I am referring to the here and now, and here and now, literally as we we speak, Islam is not doing much to prove its case with its oppression of women STILL, gays STILL, honor killings, stonings etc...
Perhaps it was kickstarted by conquest, but it was then sustained with little conquest for four centuries.
Anyway I brought it up to make a point, that point has been soundly ignored, so let's just drop the subject, k?
Anyway I brought it up to make a point, that point has been soundly ignored, so let's just drop the subject, k?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Spark, stop saying I ignored your point, I responded to it a few times now.Spark wrote:
Perhaps it was kickstarted by conquest, but it was then sustained with little conquest for four centuries.
Anyway I brought it up to make a point, that point has been soundly ignored, so let's just drop the subject, k?
and if Islam was responsible for this golden age of discovery, what happened then? Why did they go from the enlightened to being the sole major religion that still holds onto 11th century ideals? and how did it take all of its "discovered" knowledge and wisdom and manage to turn into a religion that breeds hate intolerance and terror?
How did a thread about a dude on radio turn into a thread about Islam?
Oh, wait...
Oh, wait...
FFS, it wasn't. That was my whole point!lowing wrote:
Spark, stop saying I ignored your point, I responded to it a few times now.Spark wrote:
Perhaps it was kickstarted by conquest, but it was then sustained with little conquest for four centuries.
Anyway I brought it up to make a point, that point has been soundly ignored, so let's just drop the subject, k?
and if Islam was responsible for this golden age of discovery, what happened then? Why did they go from the enlightened to being the sole major religion that still holds onto 11th century ideals? and how did it take all of its "discovered" knowledge and wisdom and manage to turn into a religion that breeds hate intolerance and terror?
Now if you could just turn around and apply that same logic in the present context we'd get somewhere.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Indeed. Someone arguing that religion doesn't "discover" knowledge is kinda stating the bleeding fucking obvious. Look at Galileo. Look at Da Vinci.Spark wrote:
FFS, it wasn't. That was my whole point!lowing wrote:
Spark, stop saying I ignored your point, I responded to it a few times now.Spark wrote:
Perhaps it was kickstarted by conquest, but it was then sustained with little conquest for four centuries.
Anyway I brought it up to make a point, that point has been soundly ignored, so let's just drop the subject, k?
and if Islam was responsible for this golden age of discovery, what happened then? Why did they go from the enlightened to being the sole major religion that still holds onto 11th century ideals? and how did it take all of its "discovered" knowledge and wisdom and manage to turn into a religion that breeds hate intolerance and terror?
Now if you could just turn around and apply that same logic in the present context we'd get somewhere.
So your point was and always has been that, there was never an "Islamic golden age". ok I agree.Spark wrote:
FFS, it wasn't. That was my whole point!lowing wrote:
Spark, stop saying I ignored your point, I responded to it a few times now.Spark wrote:
Perhaps it was kickstarted by conquest, but it was then sustained with little conquest for four centuries.
Anyway I brought it up to make a point, that point has been soundly ignored, so let's just drop the subject, k?
and if Islam was responsible for this golden age of discovery, what happened then? Why did they go from the enlightened to being the sole major religion that still holds onto 11th century ideals? and how did it take all of its "discovered" knowledge and wisdom and manage to turn into a religion that breeds hate intolerance and terror?
Now if you could just turn around and apply that same logic in the present context we'd get somewhere.
and as I said earlier, it isn't the victims blaming Islam that is the issue, it is the terrorists citing Islam as its reference for justifying its actions. The world is just taking them for their word, and drawing the very logical conclusion that the terrorists and their religion sucks.
Then why is Islam specifically given credit? and the "Islamic golden age" cited as to how advanced and great Islam is?Jaekus wrote:
Indeed. Someone arguing that religion doesn't "discover" knowledge is kinda stating the bleeding fucking obvious. Look at Galileo. Look at Da Vinci.Spark wrote:
FFS, it wasn't. That was my whole point!lowing wrote:
Spark, stop saying I ignored your point, I responded to it a few times now.
and if Islam was responsible for this golden age of discovery, what happened then? Why did they go from the enlightened to being the sole major religion that still holds onto 11th century ideals? and how did it take all of its "discovered" knowledge and wisdom and manage to turn into a religion that breeds hate intolerance and terror?
Now if you could just turn around and apply that same logic in the present context we'd get somewhere.
I didn't actually read anyone saying Islam was "advanced and great".
If you happen to have examples, please, present them now.
If you happen to have examples, please, present them now.
AR to post his facepalm picture. I give up.lowing wrote:
So your point was and always has been that, there was never an "Islamic golden age". ok I agree.Spark wrote:
FFS, it wasn't. That was my whole point!lowing wrote:
Spark, stop saying I ignored your point, I responded to it a few times now.
and if Islam was responsible for this golden age of discovery, what happened then? Why did they go from the enlightened to being the sole major religion that still holds onto 11th century ideals? and how did it take all of its "discovered" knowledge and wisdom and manage to turn into a religion that breeds hate intolerance and terror?
Now if you could just turn around and apply that same logic in the present context we'd get somewhere.
and as I said earlier, it isn't the victims blaming Islam that is the issue, it is the terrorists citing Islam as its reference for justifying its actions. The world is just taking them for their word, and drawing the very logical conclusion that the terrorists and their religion sucks.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
did that a few pages back.... Islamic golden age was presented as evidence as a contradiction of how enlightened Islam is and such a brutal culture.Jaekus wrote:
I didn't actually read anyone saying Islam was "advanced and great".
If you happen to have examples, please, present them now.
My argument was and is, there is no contradiction. Islam has always been a brutal culture since its "golden age of discovery" came about do to conquering more than discovering.
Sorry Spark, I guess I am just not getting your point, thought I did. not trying to be a smart ass. ISlam is not responsible for its golden age and therefore not responsible for terrorism in its name either? Gotta disagree there as well, I will elaborate if that is supposed to be your point?Spark wrote:
AR to post his facepalm picture. I give up.lowing wrote:
So your point was and always has been that, there was never an "Islamic golden age". ok I agree.Spark wrote:
FFS, it wasn't. That was my whole point!
Now if you could just turn around and apply that same logic in the present context we'd get somewhere.
and as I said earlier, it isn't the victims blaming Islam that is the issue, it is the terrorists citing Islam as its reference for justifying its actions. The world is just taking them for their word, and drawing the very logical conclusion that the terrorists and their religion sucks.
Last edited by lowing (2011-01-29 05:50:20)
It absolutely was. Al-Khawarizmi, al-Battani, Al Sufi, Abd-al-Rahman Al Sufi ...Jaekus wrote:
I didn't actually read anyone saying Islam was "advanced and great".
If you happen to have examples, please, present them now.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
pearl harbour.Bertster7 wrote:
Not true - they did bomb American civilians. Using bombs on balloons. Not very successfully though.Dilbert_X wrote:
I'd say they were about equal, still wrong though.
OTOH The Japanese never bombed US civilians whereas the Germans did.
But that's simply not true. Lots of conquering did go on then (but I note you ignore the fact the Muslim invaders were often welcomed by those they were invading), but it's not even remotely accurate to claim that was just because the Muslims were running around invading people and stealing their ideas. It was to do with creating an environment where these discoveries could be made.lowing wrote:
Well I offered the argument that Islam's period of discovery was mainly due to conquering and by non-muslims. Sorry if that argument isn't gpod enough.Bertster7 wrote:
OK, and what have you done to counter that argument? Not a lot from what I see.lowing wrote:
actually I was not. The Islamic golden age was offered up as proof for how great Islam is.
If arguing that Islam was more restrictive to progress than Christianity through that era, the points about women and gays are not relevant.
So, how do you justify the "especially Islam" point below?lowing wrote:
Religion especially Islam does not encourage outside the box thinking therefore can not take credit for any discoveries under its rule.
Religious freedom was promoted, there are a list of Muslim polymaths as long as your arm who were discovering all sorts, the Muslims came up with environmentalism back then, made huge advances in agriculture and economics - the list goes on and on.
I wouldn't say Islam, backward horrible countries (and some immigrants from these countries) - many of which have Islam as their main religion.lowing wrote:
Because I am referring to the here and now, and here and now, literally as we we speak, Islam is not doing much to prove its case with its oppression of women STILL, gays STILL, honor killings, stonings etc...
I believe they bombed Pearl Harbor two more times after Dec 7 1941, By submarine born Seaplanes at night. It was just that no one noticed. I know submarines shelled our coasts with similar results. It was not for lack of effort on their part. They Did occupy the Continent.Cybargs wrote:
pearl harbour.Bertster7 wrote:
Not true - they did bomb American civilians. Using bombs on balloons. Not very successfully though.Dilbert_X wrote:
I'd say they were about equal, still wrong though.
OTOH The Japanese never bombed US civilians whereas the Germans did.
I thought the bombs on balloons only weren't successful because it was covered up by the US govt. The Japanese were planning on using biological agents or something similar?
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
That is true. We were planning the same thing using infected Bats. Or maybe the Bats had incendiary devices attached to them, I forget. One long weird story.
Last edited by Hunter/Jumper (2011-01-29 11:43:13)
A naval base?Cybargs wrote:
pearl harbour.Bertster7 wrote:
Not true - they did bomb American civilians. Using bombs on balloons. Not very successfully though.Dilbert_X wrote:
I'd say they were about equal, still wrong though.
OTOH The Japanese never bombed US civilians whereas the Germans did.
They hit a mail box in Santa Barbara with 3 inch Naval shell Fired from a Submarine at night. Messed the mail box up bad. The owner assumed Teenagers did it and there was a big ruckus at the Town board meeting that weekend.AussieReaper wrote:
A naval base?Cybargs wrote:
pearl harbour.Bertster7 wrote:
Not true - they did bomb American civilians. Using bombs on balloons. Not very successfully though.
Some Family having a picnic in Oregon or Washington State was killed by a balloon bomb. A million to one shot, landed right on them If I am not mistaken. The U.S. covered it up to deny Japan the propaganda victory.
We got so mad, we responded with the Atom Bomb.
Last edited by Hunter/Jumper (2011-01-29 18:16:28)
Jaekus wrote:
How did a thread about a dude on radio turn into a thread about Islam?
Oh, wait...
Still killed civies. you can argue that the whole of japan was a big ass military complex. They were mobilizing kids to act as suicide bombers.AussieReaper wrote:
A naval base?Cybargs wrote:
pearl harbour.Bertster7 wrote:
Not true - they did bomb American civilians. Using bombs on balloons. Not very successfully though.
Oh. I see.Cybargs wrote:
Still killed civies. you can argue that the whole of japan was a big ass military complex. They were mobilizing kids to act as suicide bombers.AussieReaper wrote:
A naval base?Cybargs wrote:
pearl harbour.
Japan bombs a US Naval Base = killing civilians.
America bombs Hiroshima/Nagaski with nuclear weapons = killing a big ass military complex of suicide bombers.
Well, to be fair.. Hiroshima/Nagaski were both strategic targets. In neither instance the militaries did not explicitly targeted civies.. like the Japanese did during the rape of nanking.
Xbone Stormsurgezz