I have stuck to down to earth arguments, I have answered every question asked within all of the "what if" scenario's. You are the one trying to argue that a right to bear arms means a private citizen can walk around with nukes. Like I said get real or get lost.presidentsheep wrote:
Such dazzling rhetoric.lowing wrote:
get back with me when can form a sensible argument answer the previously posted question, and stop with the bullshit.presidentsheep wrote:
It's not unrealistic.
"the right to bear arms" I don't see any conditions on it.
Oh, unless your government has limited that? Holy shit! it's control, you're not allowed to nuke someone who threatens you with a knife! You're not even allowed to defend yourself in a life threatening situation!
No they're not, that's what the police, the army, voting, law and any other institution responsible to the people are for.lowing wrote:
Because an unarmed citizenry are at the mercy of any govt.presidentsheep wrote:
Why do you need guns for that?lowing wrote:
That is not my argument or my point, but I think you know that. My point is, our govt. is designed to get its power from the people, with the people empowered to take it back from the govt. if it proves to be over controlling of the people. I said nothing about "crazies going postal" as a legal avenue for the people.
The only real reason you need guns is to defend yourself from other citizens with guns. Which is an unnecessary problem in modern times.
Last edited by presidentsheep (2011-01-12 05:54:05)
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
sure typical Europeans think AMericans shouldn't have the right to defend themselves, because they don't.ghettoperson wrote:
Well this thread got popular. Quick summary of the past 10 pages someone?
I have every right to defend myself, which has been laid down in my countries law since before yours even existed.lowing wrote:
sure typical Europeans think AMericans shouldn't have the right to defend themselves, because they don't.ghettoperson wrote:
Well this thread got popular. Quick summary of the past 10 pages someone?
The "typical europeans" are arguing that carrying guns in public and owning guns for the sole purpose of self defence is unnecessary in modern times.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
ummmm don't look now, but the police is govt. the army is govt.....presidentsheep wrote:
No they're not, that's what the police, the army, voting, law and any other institution responsible to the people are for.lowing wrote:
Because an unarmed citizenry are at the mercy of any govt.presidentsheep wrote:
Why do you need guns for that?
The only real reason you need guns is to defend yourself from other citizens with guns. Which is an unnecessary problem in modern times.
Already discussed police involvement. They are there to clean up the mess and "investigate" they are rarely there to prevent a break in or a car jacking or a rape or a murder.
So how is that in any way related to this thread?lowing wrote:
That is not my argument or my point, but I think you know that. My point is, our govt. is designed to get its power from the people, with the people empowered to take it back from the govt. if it proves to be over controlling of the people. I said nothing about "crazies going postal" as a legal avenue for the people.
Fuck Israel
So you're telling me a coup is impossible? And that the police take no steps to prevent crime, only to deal with the repercussions?lowing wrote:
ummmm don't look now, but the police is govt. the army is govt.....presidentsheep wrote:
No they're not, that's what the police, the army, voting, law and any other institution responsible to the people are for.lowing wrote:
Because an unarmed citizenry are at the mercy of any govt.
The only real reason you need guns is to defend yourself from other citizens with guns. Which is an unnecessary problem in modern times.
Already discussed police involvement. They are there to clean up the mess and "investigate" they are rarely there to prevent a break in or a car jacking or a rape or a murder.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
really? England has no criminals? no victims? Since knife crimes are a big thing in England shall your govt. pass laws forbidding the owning of a knife?presidentsheep wrote:
I have every right to defend myself, which has been laid down in my countries law since before yours even existed.lowing wrote:
sure typical Europeans think AMericans shouldn't have the right to defend themselves, because they don't.ghettoperson wrote:
Well this thread got popular. Quick summary of the past 10 pages someone?
The "typical europeans" are arguing that carrying guns in public and owning guns for the sole purpose of self defence is unnecessary in modern times.
If we are talking about MY self defense, do you mind if I decide if or how I choose to defend myself?
Already asked you ( and this is where you went off about nukes) How are you to defend yourself against a home invasion or against a mugger with a knife? You have yet to answer that question
Because lowing lives in 1795 where he believes that every american citizen needs a gun so he can rise up and violently overthrow his government if he disagrees with their policy decisions.Dilbert_X wrote:
So how is that in any way related to this thread?lowing wrote:
That is not my argument or my point, but I think you know that. My point is, our govt. is designed to get its power from the people, with the people empowered to take it back from the govt. if it proves to be over controlling of the people. I said nothing about "crazies going postal" as a legal avenue for the people.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
you take away the armed citizen you have taken away their power to enforce the constitution against a tyrannical govt. Which ironically enough would start by disarming the citizens.Dilbert_X wrote:
So how is that in any way related to this thread?lowing wrote:
That is not my argument or my point, but I think you know that. My point is, our govt. is designed to get its power from the people, with the people empowered to take it back from the govt. if it proves to be over controlling of the people. I said nothing about "crazies going postal" as a legal avenue for the people.
nope didn't say that.presidentsheep wrote:
So you're telling me a coup is impossible? And that the police take no steps to prevent crime, only to deal with the repercussions?lowing wrote:
ummmm don't look now, but the police is govt. the army is govt.....presidentsheep wrote:
No they're not, that's what the police, the army, voting, law and any other institution responsible to the people are for.
The only real reason you need guns is to defend yourself from other citizens with guns. Which is an unnecessary problem in modern times.
Already discussed police involvement. They are there to clean up the mess and "investigate" they are rarely there to prevent a break in or a car jacking or a rape or a murder.
Why don't you tell me what steps the police are to take to protect me from a home invasion BEFORE my home gets invaded? Oh and try to be realistic will you please?
as a society yes, on a personal level, I believe I have the right to defend myself with deadly force against those that threaten my life or the lives of my family. Nothing more nothing lesspresidentsheep wrote:
Because lowing lives in 1795 where he believes that every american citizen needs a gun so he can rise up and violently overthrow his government if he disagrees with their policy decisions.Dilbert_X wrote:
So how is that in any way related to this thread?lowing wrote:
That is not my argument or my point, but I think you know that. My point is, our govt. is designed to get its power from the people, with the people empowered to take it back from the govt. if it proves to be over controlling of the people. I said nothing about "crazies going postal" as a legal avenue for the people.
The government has strict laws in place about leaving your house with a knife, to the extent that if you kill someone with it it can count as premeditated murder. That makes sense to me.lowing wrote:
really? England has no criminals? no victims? Since knife crimes are a big thing in England shall your govt. pass laws forbidding the owning of a knife?presidentsheep wrote:
I have every right to defend myself, which has been laid down in my countries law since before yours even existed.lowing wrote:
sure typical Europeans think AMericans shouldn't have the right to defend themselves, because they don't.
The "typical europeans" are arguing that carrying guns in public and owning guns for the sole purpose of self defence is unnecessary in modern times.
If we are talking about MY self defense, do you mind if I decide if or how I choose to defend myself?
Already asked you ( and this is where you went off about nukes) How are you to defend yourself against a home invasion or against a mugger with a knife? You have yet to answer that question
I have no problem with you owning a gun and using it for say hunting or range shooting, I do have a problem with you leaving the house with it to use as protection, to me that's no different to the idiot teenage "gang members" here who leave the house with a knife every day "for protection".
Defending myself against home invasion shouldn't be a massive problem, in the event that it happens I will feel no need to grab a gun and start shooting at whoever has entered, let alone having the added worry that they've broken in with a gun. In all honesty i'd stay upstairs and phone the police, same as I'd hope any other rational human being would, i'd turn lights on, make a load of noise, then i'd go downstairs with my dad and my brother to investigate. I'm fairly sure that seeing as there's no worry that this guy has a gun we'd be able to between three of us, overpower someone with a knife/bat. There's a police station 3 minutes drive from here so I doubt it would even come to that stage.
As for defending myself against a mugger with a knife, i'd give them my wallet straight off. The contents aren't worth anyone losing their life over, once he's got what he wants i'm doubting he's then going to stab me for nothing, I also have the added comfort I can run away or even if i have to fight i'm not going to get shot in the head before I have a chance to even start to defend myself.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
The threat of punishment for the robber is surely the main one, every time they break into a house they must know they're taking the risk of being caught and facing gaol time. That to me seems a fairly obvious preventative measure.lowing wrote:
nope didn't say that.presidentsheep wrote:
So you're telling me a coup is impossible? And that the police take no steps to prevent crime, only to deal with the repercussions?lowing wrote:
ummmm don't look now, but the police is govt. the army is govt.....
Already discussed police involvement. They are there to clean up the mess and "investigate" they are rarely there to prevent a break in or a car jacking or a rape or a murder.
Why don't you tell me what steps the police are to take to protect me from a home invasion BEFORE my home gets invaded? Oh and try to be realistic will you please?
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
well, congratulations on instead of empowering yourself, empowering the criminals...and that is the reason I carry a gun. full circle
So it's about penis size now?lowing wrote:
well, congratulations on instead of empowering yourself, empowering the criminals...and that is the reason I carry a gun. full circle
There is no need to carry a weapon on the streets here.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
would have came in handy now and then in Europe last 100 years or so,presidentsheep wrote:
Because lowing lives in 1795 where he believes that every american citizen needs a gun so he can rise up and violently overthrow his government if he disagrees with their policy decisions.Dilbert_X wrote:
So how is that in any way related to this thread?lowing wrote:
That is not my argument or my point, but I think you know that. My point is, our govt. is designed to get its power from the people, with the people empowered to take it back from the govt. if it proves to be over controlling of the people. I said nothing about "crazies going postal" as a legal avenue for the people.
Needless to say you can no longer count on America. You people better get a PLAN B - A.S.A.P.
Last edited by Hunter/Jumper (2011-01-12 06:20:13)
Response should end here.presidentsheep wrote:
So it's about penis size now?lowing wrote:
well, congratulations on instead of empowering yourself, empowering the criminals...and that is the reason I carry a gun. full circle
There is no need to carry a weapon on the streets here.
You know how I know you are gay........presidentsheep wrote:
So it's about penis size now?lowing wrote:
well, congratulations on instead of empowering yourself, empowering the criminals...and that is the reason I carry a gun. full circle
There is no need to carry a weapon on the streets here.
I hope you're never on the pointy end of an armed robbery.presidentsheep wrote:
I have every right to defend myself, which has been laid down in my countries law since before yours even existed.lowing wrote:
sure typical Europeans think AMericans shouldn't have the right to defend themselves, because they don't.ghettoperson wrote:
Well this thread got popular. Quick summary of the past 10 pages someone?
The "typical europeans" are arguing that carrying guns in public and owning guns for the sole purpose of self defence is unnecessary in modern times.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
didn't say anything about penis size.presidentsheep wrote:
So it's about penis size now?lowing wrote:
well, congratulations on instead of empowering yourself, empowering the criminals...and that is the reason I carry a gun. full circle
There is no need to carry a weapon on the streets here.
I said, you would hope and pray that the govt. does something for your protection in time, and I will take steps to ensure my chances of protecting myself.
Hell, you have all but come out and said you will hope and pray the criminal does not hurt you, rather than protect yourself. That my friend is empowering the criminal, and we don't do that here
Last edited by lowing (2011-01-12 07:16:51)
I on the other hand won't walk through dark alleys in dodgy areas advertising my wealth.lowing wrote:
didn't say anything about penis size.presidentsheep wrote:
So it's about penis size now?lowing wrote:
well, congratulations on instead of empowering yourself, empowering the criminals...and that is the reason I carry a gun. full circle
There is no need to carry a weapon on the streets here.
I said, you would hope and pray that the govt. does something for your protection in time, and I will take steps to ensure my chances of protecting myself.
Prevention is the best method for dealing with crime, a gun doesn't prevent anything it just escalates a mugging into manslaughter.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
THat would be a great argument is people were only victimized in" dark alleys in dodgy areas". but they are not.presidentsheep wrote:
I on the other hand won't walk through dark alleys in dodgy areas advertising my wealth.lowing wrote:
didn't say anything about penis size.presidentsheep wrote:
So it's about penis size now?
There is no need to carry a weapon on the streets here.
I said, you would hope and pray that the govt. does something for your protection in time, and I will take steps to ensure my chances of protecting myself.
Prevention is the best method for dealing with crime, a gun doesn't prevent anything it just escalates a mugging into manslaughter.
Nor is everyone wandering the streets mugging anyone they see, its about preventing the situation from arising rather than dealing with it in the most violent way possible.lowing wrote:
THat would be a great argument is people were only victimized in" dark alleys in dodgy areas". but they are not.presidentsheep wrote:
I on the other hand won't walk through dark alleys in dodgy areas advertising my wealth.lowing wrote:
didn't say anything about penis size.
I said, you would hope and pray that the govt. does something for your protection in time, and I will take steps to ensure my chances of protecting myself.
Prevention is the best method for dealing with crime, a gun doesn't prevent anything it just escalates a mugging into manslaughter.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
never said they were, never even implied it. I am jut empowering my self to protect myself and my family if the need arises. You choose to empower the criminal with that task. I can not help that.presidentsheep wrote:
Nor is everyone wandering the streets mugging anyone they see, its about preventing the situation from arising rather than dealing with it in the most violent way possible.lowing wrote:
THat would be a great argument is people were only victimized in" dark alleys in dodgy areas". but they are not.presidentsheep wrote:
I on the other hand won't walk through dark alleys in dodgy areas advertising my wealth.
Prevention is the best method for dealing with crime, a gun doesn't prevent anything it just escalates a mugging into manslaughter.