BF2S Forums Arizona Congresswoman Shot

presidentsheep wrote:

krazed wrote:

Nic wrote:

Ok, as jahman said earlier in the thread, once you have obviously chosen C as it seems you would.

You go over to attempt to help, and there are several other gun carriers who do the same.
Since you have only heard the shots and have no idea whats going on, who do you subdue, do you trust them to not shoot you and handle the situation properly.

Yes, having a gun could potentially help, it also could potentially make things much worse.

which is why he didn't pull it and start firing


hey sheep, let me know when someone punches your girlfriend in the face and pulls a knife on you, have fun cowering in fear

unfortunately thanks to people like you, i no longer have the option to defend myself with reasonable means... so i lost everything i was carrying that night and had to watch her cry and bleed

personally i would rather have shot that piece of shit to death than have to try to comfort her at the hospital after.... but hey whatever floats your boat buddy

Ok, so you value human life less than the contents of your wallet? Last time I got in a fight I broke the guys nose and cheekbone, it was unnecessary. If anyone in that situation had a gun someone probably would have died, why exactly does that make the situation any better? Murder is somehow justified by your emotional state at the time?

edit: absolutely nothing you said actually constitutes "reasonable means" shooting someone and killing them is in no way reasonable. How does make you any different from the guy who went on this spree in the first place?

my wallet? who cares

beating possibly stabbing a loved one? death is what you should expect to face

Last edited by krazed (2011-01-11 20:41:08)

Kmar wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Yea, To be 100% honest I felt an eerie calm come over me when I noticed that it was a real gun barrel on my head (I thought about what  dieing would do to my family). Probably because it happened so fast, although at the time it did not feel like it happened fast. I could not wait for them to leave. It was weird, once they tore off, I felt my heart rate pickup. .. only after they left.

You didn't get mad until afterwards, right?

Right .. afterwards you deal with nearly every emotion imaginable, at once. Sad, angry, disappointed, scared, and yes even happy (to be alive).

Yeah, well I was addicted to that point right before the emotions kick in. I'd be up on that turret and my vision would be insane like I could see for miles. I could hear a pin drop and smell every rancid piece of trash on the side of the road. Then I'd get to our destination and take a nap because it was so draining.

Kmar wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Right .. afterwards you deal with nearly every emotion imaginable, at once. Sad, angry, disappointed, scared, and yes even happy (to be alive).

Yeah, well I was addicted to that point right before the emotions kick in. I'd be up on that turret and my vision would be insane like I could see for miles. I could hear a pin drop and smell every rancid piece of trash on the side of the road. Then I'd get to our destination and take a nap because it was so draining.

There are only two ways to react in those situations. And I bet you had no problem picking out which of your peers were reacting with "the right stuff". When some people are cornered they become part of the threat to the people around them.

Some people panic. I was always calm

Kmar wrote:

It's a psychological condition. Fear is the most powerful emotion there is, and training people to control it is a very tough task. I credit my calmness to just being a logical person by nature. In my situation logic dictated for me to remain calm and cooperate. Most likely they didn't want a murder wrap to go along with armed robbery.

That logic would not have worked in AZ, with a man whose only intent was murder.

Right. I always plan ahead and try to figure out as many possible scenarios as possible so I can react to them if I ever come across them. Like "if I am attacked in X way, react Y" etc. It's like playing chess in real life, planning several moves ahead and making contingency plans. Cuts down on the stress dramatically because you're rarely caught off guard.

Kmar wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

I know for a fact I'd probably run for cover. It's natural human reaction for people who aren't trained to react differently. I'm a Freshman in college.. I know I'm probably not going to try to be a hero. I know I'd try to help after the fact because I took a basic CPR course a few years back, but I'd get my ass to cover or protect my family/friends if I could if the shooter had just started firing. Just the reality of it and I'm not afraid to admit it.

But you know, 90 pound Shifty is some mega-marine wannabe so he thinks he could stop him and gets pissed at people for letting him shoot 20 people.

Military folks are trained to drop at contact, not stand there like Rambo blasting shit. When I first got back I was ducking when I heard a car backfire

A lot of people do that naturally. Look at the archival footage of the University of Texas shooting circa 1960's.

In the Military you are taught to react to fire. Typically it is with a weapon though so I'd be lost at the return fire stage and looked for cover.  but who knows, a million variables.

This took everyone by surprise I'm sure so everyone shut down to shock for at least an instant and instinct took over.

If you are next to the shooter seeing it as it happens I would think most people's instinct is to attack (fight or flight).  A cop would put his hand on his gun and assess the situation.  who knows.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Kmar wrote:

It's a psychological condition. Fear is the most powerful emotion there is, and training people to control it is a very tough task. I credit my calmness to just being a logical person by nature. In my situation logic dictated for me to remain calm and cooperate. Most likely they didn't want a murder wrap to go along with armed robbery.

That logic would not have worked in AZ, with a man whose only intent was murder.

Right. I always plan ahead and try to figure out as many possible scenarios as possible so I can react to them if I ever come across them. Like "if I am attacked in X way, react Y" etc. It's like playing chess in real life, planning several moves ahead and making contingency plans. Cuts down on the stress dramatically because you're rarely caught off guard.

Preparation occupies the mind and prevents you from fixating on failure. Fear is helpful and there is a natural reason it is built into us all. However, at some point fear can become debilitating to those who allow it to control them.

That is why they say to always be aware of your surroundings. I find myself eying exits and searching for what could be weapons at large public gatherings now. That is something I never considered before my life was threatened. Most people don't do that because most people don't appreciate the possibility that what happened in AZ can happen anywhere.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Kmar wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Military folks are trained to drop at contact, not stand there like Rambo blasting shit. When I first got back I was ducking when I heard a car backfire

A lot of people do that naturally. Look at the archival footage of the University of Texas shooting circa 1960's.

In the Military you are taught to react to fire. Typically it is with a weapon though so I'd be lost at the return fire stage and looked for cover.  but who knows, a million variables.

This took everyone by surprise I'm sure so everyone shut down to shock for at least an instant and instinct took over.

If you are next to the shooter seeing it as it happens I would think most people's instinct is to attack (fight or flight).  A cop would put his hand on his gun and assess the situation.  who knows.

If you are next to the shooter and he has already put four bullets into a nine year old girl then there is no doubt in my mind that it is fight for the majority of people.

plan for the worst and hope for the best

in this day and age where some crazy tea bagger (tea party member) can fly off the handle and act on a sarah palin cross hair impulse, you have to be ready.

scary world out there

i think the republicans just made sure there is gonna be a gun ban in the US

stupid is as stupid does

Crazy comes in all flavors. My fear is that the (truly) mentally disturbed will choose our direction after this tragedy, as the reactionaries claim precedent. Passion is generally a good thing for getting the country moving forward. The fact that a certain minority of people lack the capability to put a rational lid on it is a reality of life. It was sad to see the politicizing and blame go around before the investigation even began. The left instantly accusing the right for their angry rhetoric, the right quickly falling into the role of victim with their supposed unfair criticism. It sucks to see so many people lining up to take sides. This should be a time to come together as Americans. Instead we have a media that waste no time in capitalizing on the polarization. They can't let a little thing like a national tragedy get in the way of a profit.

Kmar wrote:

Crazy comes in all flavors. My fear is that the (truly) mentally disturbed will choose our direction after this tragedy, as the reactionaries claim precedent. Passion is generally a good thing for getting the country moving forward. The fact that a certain minority of people lack the capability to put a rational lid on it is a reality of life. It was sad to see the politicizing and blame go around before the investigation even began. The left instantly accusing the right for their angry rhetoric, the right quickly falling into the role of victim with their supposed unfair criticism. It sucks to see so many people lining up to take sides. This should be a time to come together as Americans. Instead we have a media that waste no time in capitalizing on the polarization. They can't let a little thing like a national tragedy get in the way of a profit.

John Stewart actually had a pretty good opening along these thought lines last night.

Nic wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Crazy comes in all flavors. My fear is that the (truly) mentally disturbed will choose our direction after this tragedy, as the reactionaries claim precedent. Passion is generally a good thing for getting the country moving forward. The fact that a certain minority of people lack the capability to put a rational lid on it is a reality of life. It was sad to see the politicizing and blame go around before the investigation even began. The left instantly accusing the right for their angry rhetoric, the right quickly falling into the role of victim with their supposed unfair criticism. It sucks to see so many people lining up to take sides. This should be a time to come together as Americans. Instead we have a media that waste no time in capitalizing on the polarization. They can't let a little thing like a national tragedy get in the way of a profit.

John Stewart actually had a pretty good opening along these thought lines last night.

He and I are often on the same level with things like this. I'll check it out.

Kmar wrote:

Nic wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Crazy comes in all flavors. My fear is that the (truly) mentally disturbed will choose our direction after this tragedy, as the reactionaries claim precedent. Passion is generally a good thing for getting the country moving forward. The fact that a certain minority of people lack the capability to put a rational lid on it is a reality of life. It was sad to see the politicizing and blame go around before the investigation even began. The left instantly accusing the right for their angry rhetoric, the right quickly falling into the role of victim with their supposed unfair criticism. It sucks to see so many people lining up to take sides. This should be a time to come together as Americans. Instead we have a media that waste no time in capitalizing on the polarization. They can't let a little thing like a national tragedy get in the way of a profit.

John Stewart actually had a pretty good opening along these thought lines last night.

He and I are often on the same level with things like this. I'll check it out.

It was a lot more of a sober commentary than you would normally get from him.