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2010-12-16 06:52:19
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7055|Great Brown North

Trotskygrad wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Self-defence is not accepted as a reason for issuing a licence.
So does everyone just get on their knees and beg for mercy as they're being assaulted? Pray that the cops show up in less than 10 minutes while some burglar is in their home?
carry a nightstick
it's a weapoon, enjoy your charges

DrunkFace wrote:

krazed wrote:

and you're from.... ?


what are the restrictions you face on the purchase, storage, and use of handguns?
Australia...
If you're really interested you can find more info,
Here and here, but basically...

Licensing:
All persons wishing to obtain a firearms licence must have a genuine reason for obtaining the licence and must meet a range of legislative requirements relating to that genuine reason. Self-defence is not accepted as a reason for issuing a licence. If you are applying for a licence for the first time you will need to complete a Firearms Safety Training Course.

Permit to Acquire:
If you wish to acquire a firearm on your licence or permit, you must first make application to the Firearms Registry, the purchase or disposal of any firearm must be conducted by a licensed Firearms Dealer. You may only acquire a particular type of firearm if you hold the corresponding category of licence for that firearm. A separate PTA application form must be completed for each firearm and you must have 'good reason' for acquiring the firearm. For initial PTA's, there is a mandatory 28 day waiting period.

Storage:
When a firearm is not actually being used or carried, it must be stored in a locked steel safe which is bolted to the structure of the premises. Any ammunition must be stored in a locked container and kept separate from the safe containing the firearms. When transporting, the firearms must be unloaded, with the ammunition kept in a locked container separate from the firearms. They must be rendered temporarily incapable of being fired (eg by removal of the bolt/firing mechanism or the use of trigger locks) and must be kept in a locked container that is properly secured to, or is within the vehicle.

Use:
Can only be used for their intended use or at licensed shooting clubs or ranges.
somewhat like here... except we can store our ammo in the same safe


and  hurricane while i can't say much for the aussies... the official policy of the RCMP here so far has been to advise people to either submit to the attacker or try to run... that includes if you see someone being attacked, dont help, call the police and either wait nearby or run away

yes that does include fleeing from your own home from armed attackers

if you so much as point an unloaded gun at someone in your home REGARDLESS of what they're attempting to do to you (short of them shooting at you first, and then you get your gun....so long as you couldn't have run away first) you WILL be charged, and are far more likely to do time than the piece of shit that broke in to begin with
2010-12-16 06:59:21
EVieira
Member
+105|6753|Lutenblaag, Molvania

Kmar wrote:

EVieira wrote:

Kmar wrote:


Miami has one of the nations highest violent crime rate.
http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/crime3.aspx

Also, check your link. I fail to see where you got your 2% statistic, although it has relatively limited value when determining actual criminal activity. .. and we're also not just talking about 1st generation immigrants. We're talking about the sons and daughters of the Cuban crime wave (2nd and third generation Cuban-Americans). Those aren't what would be considered true aliens "one who does not have U.S. citizenship".
Cubans account for 1.952 inmates in the Florida correctional facilities. The total number of inmates is 100.894. That accounts for  1.9% of the inmate population. If they are responsible for a majority of the crimes in Florida then are crime geniuses, because they aren't getting caught like the rest of the inmate population.

Now where do you get your numbers about "2nd wave" Cubans? And how do you now they are responsible for all those crimes? Yeah, just blame it on the immigrants sons...
That's right, they generally aren't getting caught because they operate in neighborhoods that stay quiet. Not because they are "geniuses". The professional criminal isn't like Billy Joe down the street, who got drunk and molested your cow. Cubans, and immigrants in general, are very reluctant to turn on each other or come forward because they, or someone they know, may be here illegally. It is also part of their culture. Try talking to a Cuban, they "take care of their own business". Have you been to (real) Miami? Your primary defense is based on some stats you googled. Make an effort to keep your mockery and arrogance in check, you haven't earned it yet. I know you really feel like you learned something when you decided to take up your immigrant-profiling-is-bad cause by happenstance. Unfortunately reality paints a very different picture.

What numbers did I present you with? It's logic. Look at when the first crime wave hit, the 80's. It only makes sense that children born in the 80s would now be the the young adults involved in what-is-now, on average, one of the most violent cities in the United States.

.. and let me be clear again. Some of my closest friends are Cubans. And they will back up everything I said here. I'm not taking a shot at their race. I'm talking about certain aspects of culture. The quick to defend and politically correct never seem to get the difference.
So you question my numbers but don't present any, and I'm the arrogant one? Your primary defense is a personal account of a couple of Cuban friends and some time you spent in Miami. Mine is Florida State statistics.

Immigrants stay together, just like jewish immigrants, italian immigrants, irish, etc. There are whole neighborhoods of them in New York and most large cities. Its sad that so many people take the easy way out and blame immigrants for everything. Cubans live in bad neighborhoods BECAUSE they are poor, not because they are the MAJORITY of the criminals. The numbers show that.

PS.: Try to tone down your own arrogance. Don't get so pissed when someone offeres a couter argument, this is a DEBATE forum.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2010-12-16 07:05:20
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6956|Disaster Free Zone

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Self-defence is not accepted as a reason for issuing a licence.
So does everyone just get on their knees and beg for mercy as they're being assaulted? Pray that the cops show up in less than 10 minutes while some burglar is in their home?
Burglars don't hit houses where people are at home, the ones that do are stupid and get caught quickly. Burglars also don't have firearms, because they are extremely hard to get and the few illegal ones are in the hands of organised crime who don't give a shit about petty theft and thuggery. And to top it off, If you have a gun, you are allowed to use it in self defence, it is just not a valid reason for issuing a licence.
2010-12-16 07:09:24
EVieira
Member
+105|6753|Lutenblaag, Molvania

DrunkFace wrote:

Burglars also don't have firearms, because they are extremely hard to get.
http://www.gunshows-usa.com/
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2010-12-16 07:14:51
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7055|Great Brown North
2010-12-16 07:15:50
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6680|North Carolina

DrunkFace wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Self-defence is not accepted as a reason for issuing a licence.
So does everyone just get on their knees and beg for mercy as they're being assaulted? Pray that the cops show up in less than 10 minutes while some burglar is in their home?
Burglars don't hit houses where people are at home, the ones that do are stupid and get caught quickly. Burglars also don't have firearms, because they are extremely hard to get and the few illegal ones are in the hands of organised crime who don't give a shit about petty theft and thuggery. And to top it off, If you have a gun, you are allowed to use it in self defence, it is just not a valid reason for issuing a licence.
Australia must be very different from America.  There is a lot of burglary where I live, and while it is true that breaking into someone's home while he/she is present increases your chances of getting caught, that has no bearing on whether or not the criminal has a weapon -- whether it's a gun or a knife.

Burglars in several countries with strict gun laws still have guns themselves.  For example, the U.K. is much stricter about guns than America is, but that doesn't stop their criminals from getting guns if they really want them.  The same is true for Canada.

Maybe Australia is far enough removed geographically from most of the world that you can safely assume your criminals won't have guns, but for most of the world, this isn't realistic.
2010-12-16 07:18:47
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7055|Great Brown North
3 guys with bats/crowbars don't need a gun to fuck your shit up

the majority of break ins in my area are shifting to when people are home.... because people have money on them

and step one of that break in is usually beat the shit out of the people
2010-12-16 07:19:40
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6956|Disaster Free Zone

EVieira wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Burglars also don't have firearms, because they are extremely hard to get.
http://www.gunshows-usa.com/
Should be fun getting back through customs.
2010-12-16 07:26:14
Lorinser
I kneel to pee
+7|5168|France
this gun take 8 bullets to kill, so its ok
2010-12-16 07:27:07
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6876|132 and Bush

EVieira wrote:

Kmar wrote:

EVieira wrote:

Cubans account for 1.952 inmates in the Florida correctional facilities. The total number of inmates is 100.894. That accounts for  1.9% of the inmate population. If they are responsible for a majority of the crimes in Florida then are crime geniuses, because they aren't getting caught like the rest of the inmate population.

Now where do you get your numbers about "2nd wave" Cubans? And how do you now they are responsible for all those crimes? Yeah, just blame it on the immigrants sons...
That's right, they generally aren't getting caught because they operate in neighborhoods that stay quiet. Not because they are "geniuses". The professional criminal isn't like Billy Joe down the street, who got drunk and molested your cow. Cubans, and immigrants in general, are very reluctant to turn on each other or come forward because they, or someone they know, may be here illegally. It is also part of their culture. Try talking to a Cuban, they "take care of their own business". Have you been to (real) Miami? Your primary defense is based on some stats you googled. Make an effort to keep your mockery and arrogance in check, you haven't earned it yet. I know you really feel like you learned something when you decided to take up your immigrant-profiling-is-bad cause by happenstance. Unfortunately reality paints a very different picture.

What numbers did I present you with? It's logic. Look at when the first crime wave hit, the 80's. It only makes sense that children born in the 80s would now be the the young adults involved in what-is-now, on average, one of the most violent cities in the United States.

.. and let me be clear again. Some of my closest friends are Cubans. And they will back up everything I said here. I'm not taking a shot at their race. I'm talking about certain aspects of culture. The quick to defend and politically correct never seem to get the difference.
So you question my numbers but don't present any, and I'm the arrogant one? Your primary defense is a personal account of a couple of Cuban friends and some time you spent in Miami. Mine is Florida State statistics.

Immigrants stay together, just like jewish immigrants, italian immigrants, irish, etc. There are whole neighborhoods of them in New York and most large cities. Its sad that so many people take the easy way out and blame immigrants for everything. Cubans live in bad neighborhoods BECAUSE they are poor, not because they are the MAJORITY of the criminals. The numbers show that.

PS.: Try to tone down your own arrogance. Don't get so pissed when someone offeres a couter argument, this is a DEBATE forum.
I did present relative numbers. It was in the first link. However, you must at least consider that numbers aren't always indicative to what is actually happening. And that is why I explained the flaw when comparing inmate population levels.

Yes immigrants maintain their groups. And they form their own sects, like the Cuban Mafia. I'm not blaming immigrants "for everything". That is a leap you decided to make in order to make me seem unreasonable. I love many aspects of Cuban culture. I grew up around it.

I let you slide once with "Yeah, just blame it on the immigrants (sons)...". The second time I addressed your juvenile mockery. You were intentionally misrepresenting what I said. I am not excluding other social groups as contributors to violent crime. I was simply stating that in certain areas, certain groups contribute more. You won't here me blaming Cubans or Immigrants for all things violent across the entire country.

I'm not pissed at all. However, in a debate you let the other people speak for themselves. You don't put words in their mouth. That's the epitome of arrogance.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-12-16 07:27:51
EVieira
Member
+105|6753|Lutenblaag, Molvania

DrunkFace wrote:

EVieira wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Burglars also don't have firearms, because they are extremely hard to get.
http://www.gunshows-usa.com/
Should be fun getting back through customs.
I tought your were from the US, sorry.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2010-12-16 11:05:37
EVieira
Member
+105|6753|Lutenblaag, Molvania

Kmar wrote:

I'm not blaming immigrants "for everything". That is a leap you decided to make in order to make me seem unreasonable. I love many aspects of Cuban culture. I grew up around it.
Yet, your single response was one-worded: "Cubans"

Kmar wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Yeah, he was pretty crazy.

One thing I've noticed lately is that Florida seems to have an inordinate amount of crime.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

In 2008, the FBI ranked Florida as the 3rd most dangerous state in terms of per capita crime (an aggregate measure of property and violent crimes).   DC is also included in this ranking, and it's the most dangerous place overall.
Cubans
I didn't make you sound unreasonable, you did it yourself when you posted that. You got it all figured out, Cubans are responsible for the high crime rate in Florida. There obsviously no need to research or debate this.

Thanks for letting me slide though...
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2010-12-16 15:32:40
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6876|132 and Bush

That was your interpretation bub. I was pointing out a difference, a known factor as evident by the most dangerous city on average in florida.

I wasn't being unreasonable. You failed at understanding what I meant. So rather than ask me, you decided to guess and twist what I said. You failed again.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-12-16 15:45:29
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6423|'straya

krazed wrote:

3 guys with bats/crowbars don't need a gun to fuck your shit up

the majority of break ins in my area are shifting to when people are home.... because people have money on them

and step one of that break in is usually beat the shit out of the people
Break ins while people are home are almost unheard of. Some guy tried to break into our house but as soon as he saw me at the door he ran away, I didn't need to shoot him.

Attacking people during break ins are even more rare because theifs realise that people will be reimbursed through insurance and the police won't care as much. As soon as you attack someone in a break in, it's national news and the police will be all up in your shit.

Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2010-12-16 15:46:25)

2010-12-16 15:46:34
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7055|Great Brown North

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

krazed wrote:

3 guys with bats/crowbars don't need a gun to fuck your shit up

the majority of break ins in my area are shifting to when people are home.... because people have money on them

and step one of that break in is usually beat the shit out of the people
Break ins while people are home are almost unheard of. Some guy tried to break into our house but as soon as he saw me at the door he ran away, I didn't need to shoot him.

Attacking people during break ins are ever more rare because theifs realise that people will be reimbursed through insurance and the police won't care as much. As soon as you attack someone in a break in, it's national news and the police will be all up in your shit.
in your part of the world maybe
2010-12-16 15:51:20
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6423|'straya
It hasn't always been like this. Up until 1996 Australia had similar laws to America and a similar amount of firearms per capita.
2010-12-16 18:14:17
13rin
Member
+977|6754

Kmar wrote:

That was your interpretation bub. I was pointing out a difference, a known factor as evident by the most dangerous city on average in florida.

I wasn't being unreasonable. You failed at understanding what I meant. So rather than ask me, you decided to guess and twist what I said. You failed again.
It's really the gray on gray crime.  We've got the highest percentage of 'retired people' in the WORLD.  Old people are nasty and don't put up with shit. They haven't the time.  When I see two of them approaching me on one side of the street I cross immediately.

Tim Dorsey does it better...
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2010-12-16 18:32:00
13rin
Member
+977|6754

EVieira wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Burglars also don't have firearms, because they are extremely hard to get.
http://www.gunshows-usa.com/
Oh your gun show theory even applied to the US fails hard.  I'd wager they're more likely straw man purchases from pawn shops of sorts.  In most states there is a mandatory wait period unless you have a concealed permit (I recommend one).

Gun shows in Florida require background checks.  Now the parking lot?  Person to person sales do not (lest it be a class III item).  However, if you knowingly obtain/sell a gun to a felon and get caught... You're fucked.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2010-12-16 20:58:53
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6876|132 and Bush

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Kmar wrote:

That was your interpretation bub. I was pointing out a difference, a known factor as evident by the most dangerous city on average in florida.

I wasn't being unreasonable. You failed at understanding what I meant. So rather than ask me, you decided to guess and twist what I said. You failed again.
It's really the gray on gray crime.  We've got the highest percentage of 'retired people' in the WORLD.  Old people are nasty and don't put up with shit. They haven't the time.  When I see two of them approaching me on one side of the street I cross immediately.

Tim Dorsey does it better...
haha .. made me think of this guy though, http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.as … yid=125063
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-12-16 22:16:42
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6981
If I had to guess, I'd say he missed on purpose.  You can't fire that many shots and miss from that distance unless you do it on purpose.  He just wanted to die.
2010-12-16 22:31:07
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6876|132 and Bush




Deadmonkiefart wrote:

If I had to guess, I'd say he missed on purpose.  You can't fire that many shots and miss from that distance unless you do it on purpose.  He just wanted to die.
His wife said he did, that he was an excellent marksman. Of course she may have wanted to believe he missed on purpose.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-12-17 03:56:20
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6423|'straya
He didn't seem like an excellent marksman. It looks like he accidentally pulled the trigger after the first shot while the pistol was pointed towards the ground. Not really something an excellent marksman would do.
2010-12-17 04:02:53
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6876|132 and Bush

She is probably in denial.. although we should consider that things like aim are effected by stress and life and death situations. Anyone see the last Samurai?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-12-17 06:36:28
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6680|North Carolina

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

It hasn't always been like this. Up until 1996 Australia had similar laws to America and a similar amount of firearms per capita.
Well, again, geographic factors are at work here.  We live next to Mexico.  If we banned guns, or tried to restrict their flow more, they would become a very convenient illegal market for them.  In some ways, they already are.
2010-12-17 06:41:29
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6680|North Carolina

Kmar wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liyakMbVIos


Deadmonkiefart wrote:

If I had to guess, I'd say he missed on purpose.  You can't fire that many shots and miss from that distance unless you do it on purpose.  He just wanted to die.
His wife said he did, that he was an excellent marksman. Of course she may have wanted to believe he missed on purpose.
The thing that surprises me most about that situation is that the guard fired at the gunman from an angle where the council members were in the background.  You would think he would've tried one of the side doors so that the angle of fire had less of a chance of hitting bystanders.

 

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