BF2S Forums [NSFW] Do you beleive in miracles? How do you explain this?

EVieira wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

That's fucking crazy. I'm curious as to what would happen if someone who didn't believe in what that guy does had 'surgery' from him, whether or not it's peoples faith in him that's somehow numbing it. But of course if you didn't believe in it who would let someone do that to them?

One thing thats curious when you go to this place is that before the healing sessions start, we are told to pray according to our beliefs, no matter what our religion is. The only important thing, they say, is that you must do it sincerely and with an open heart. So I guess in theory, you just have to have faith, no matter what your faith is...

DISCLAIMER: I am not here to defend faith healing, I just brought it up because I have actually been there and thought this would be a good debate. I have also know of a case where a a French national died after going there. I'll post that too later.

EVieira wrote:

Well, here's my personal experience with this guy. My brother was having all sorts of stomach problems, ulcers, heart burns, acid reflux, etc. Plus, he was really depressed since we got back from the States, given that he left all of his friends behind (he had just finished high school).

So he went to a regular doctor of course and began treatment for his stomach issues. But my mom wanted him to go see this guy, NOT TO DO ANY OF THOSE CRAZY SURGERIES. That kind of surgery is optional, and we were not up for it. Besides, my bother didn't have any tumors or the like...

So here's what happened, the three of us (me, mom and bro) got there and got in line. When it was my brothers turn, the buy looked at him and told him to stop worrying about getting a job. That he would be employed soon. And that was it. He said nothing of hos health, just of his job.

So, wtf? We told nor talked to anyone there about jobs or anything the like, we weren't even thinking about it. It was incredibly creepy how without anyone saying anything to him the guy knew my brother was unemployed. And the fact is, what really was causing my brothers problems were the fact that he was unemployed. It was more psychological than anything else. When he got a job, he got better within days.

There another more amazing story which is less personal, but I'll post t when I get some more time.

EVieira wrote:

dayarath wrote:

He's a quack, his disregard of proper sanitation and a sterile environment during surgery will get someone killed.

He's also just messing around in the guys arm with a pincet, as if that would solve ANYTHING.

Well, then how do you explain it? There are no infections, no one has ever died (except for the example below) and plenty have said they were cured of all sorts of things. But not everyone is cured, there a lots of cases where the person didn't get better.

The one case of death I know of is from this french guy who came to be cured of aids. As is standard procedure there, you are told never to stop taking any medication or any other treatment that was given to you by a regular doctor. This guy decided to stop taking his aids cocktail, and guess what, he died. The french embassy made a big case out of it, but it was prooven that he was told not to stop taking his meds.

I'm a skeptic, but I've seen it with my own eyes. Its just like the youtube video, its very clear he actually cuts the person and in some cases removes  or squeezes something out.

Turquoise wrote:

EVieira wrote:

dayarath wrote:

He's a quack, his disregard of proper sanitation and a sterile environment during surgery will get someone killed.

He's also just messing around in the guys arm with a pincet, as if that would solve ANYTHING.

Well, then how do you explain it? There are no infections, no one has ever died (except for the example below) and plenty have said they were cured of all sorts of things. But not everyone is cured, there a lots of cases where the person didn't get better.

The one case of death I know of is from this french guy who came to be cured of aids. As is standard procedure there, you are told never to stop taking any medication or any other treatment that was given to you by a regular doctor. This guy decided to stop taking his aids cocktail, and guess what, he died. The french embassy made a big case out of it, but it was prooven that he was told not to stop taking his meds.

I'm a skeptic, but I've seen it with my own eyes. Its just like the youtube video, its very clear he actually cuts the person and in some cases removes  or squeezes something out.

The principle of Occam's Razor should be adhered to though.  Extraordinary claims and occurrences require an extraordinary amount of investigation to understand.  It would take a rather amazing amount of evidence to prove that these incidents are supernatural.  Even in so doing, once something has a rational explanation, it ceases to be supernatural anyway.

EVieira wrote:

Aries_37 wrote:

EVieira wrote:

Well, here's my personal experience with this guy. My brother was having all sorts of stomach problems, ulcers, heart burns, acid reflux, etc. Plus, he was really depressed since we got back from the States, given that he left all of his friends behind (he had just finished high school).

So he went to a regular doctor of course and began treatment for his stomach issues. But my mom wanted him to go see this guy, NOT TO DO ANY OF THOSE CRAZY SURGERIES. That kind of surgery is optional, and we were not up for it. Besides, my bother didn't have any tumors or the like...

So here's what happened, the three of us (me, mom and bro) got there and got in line. When it was my brothers turn, the buy looked at him and told him to stop worrying about getting a job. That he would be employed soon. And that was it. He said nothing of hos health, just of his job.

So, wtf? We told nor talked to anyone there about jobs or anything the like, we weren't even thinking about it. It was incredibly creepy how without anyone saying anything to him the guy knew my brother was unemployed. And the fact is, what really was causing my brothers problems were the fact that he was unemployed. It was more psychological than anything else. When he got a job, he got better within days.

There another more amazing story which is less personal, but I'll post t when I get some more time.

This guy sounds more like a psychologist. I assume your brother is young so it doesn't take a massive amount of medical knowledge to guess that stress and anxiety are causing his problems.

No, he's actually 6 years older than me. But ok, it sure doesen't take allot of medical knowledge to figure out stress and anxiety were the root of the problems. But how can the guy be absolutely spot on my brother's unemployment without any words being exchanged with him? We never spoke, he just looked at us and told this. And we didn't talk about this at any moment there, we weren't even relating this to his health. Me and my mom didn't even know my brother was so upset by this.

Last edited by Aries_37 (2010-12-08 12:48:50)

Aries_37 wrote:

Did he say 'don't worry about getting a job' as soon as you walked in? Surely he must have sat you down or something and had your brother tell him that he had just finished high school and was now in brazil or wherever with no friends. Otherwise it's just a lucky a read. I doubt your brother's stress disorder was due solely to not having a job. He was probably just lost in life in general, but he not having a job was part of it and having the guy bring it up made him pin everything on it. He gets better after getting a job because it gives him something to do.

manevs wrote:

EVieira wrote:

There is a spiritual/psychic healer who does surgeries about an hour and a half drive from where I live, in west-central Brazil. With the person standing up, he'll do things like remove tumors using a scalpel, scissors and his fingers to extract it. And all sorts of other surgeries.

This?

http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/psych … rgery.html

from your web source wrote:

Since actual incisions are seldom made, the risk of infection is small.

Last edited by EVieira (2010-12-09 17:06:29)

Uzique wrote:

this is batshit fucking insane and i can't believe it is being debated

EVieira wrote:

So, wtf? We told nor talked to anyone there about jobs or anything the like, we weren't even thinking about it. It was incredibly creepy how without anyone saying anything to him the guy knew my brother was unemployed. And the fact is, what really was causing my brothers problems were the fact that he was unemployed. [b]It was more psychological than anything else.[b/] When he got a job, he got better within days.

There another more amazing story which is less personal, but I'll post t when I get some more time.