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uziq
Member
+487|2935
5 times more used … in the eurozone. soon as italy or greece default then that one’s over.

and the euro is performing worse in recent events than the £ against the dollar. so what are you even talking about lmao. catastrophizing over the pounds slide against the dollar. ffs
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX
Then it will be back to the DM being way ahead of the pound.

Use of the pound is an anachronism, its irrelevant.
Britain is borrowing heavily to spend on ... nothing productive whatsoever - best of luck chaps.
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uziq
Member
+487|2935
https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/ … Fegw2Bm2jw

lmao right on time.

dilbert knows best.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX
This Krugman guy seems to just make stuff up, droning on about a currency crisis when it doesn't apply to a floating currency.

Britain is borrowing recklessly to spend stupidly - usually this is very bad for an economy, more so for one with a shit balance of trade like Britain.
Whether or not some crank theorist doesn't know this I don't care really.
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uziq
Member
+487|2935
crank theorist. he has a nobel prize in economics. he invented the field of foreign currency trading theory and financialised international markets. lmao.

maybe he’s just thought about these things longer than you?

Last edited by uziq (2022-09-25 07:08:54)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,012|6254|USA

His wikipedia entry starts off with like a full page of qualifications and recognitions before you even get to the ToC.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX
Economics is the flakiest of the pseudo-sciences and often debunked, most likely the theories were never properly bunked in the first place.

Its laughable this guy is misquoting his own theories on twitter.

So anyway, good luck with the unprecedented borrowing to be transferred by the rich into offshore tax-havens, I'm sure it'll work out great because some guy on twitter says it will.

https://i.imgur.com/bWPZZHQ.jpg
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX
Whats funny at this point is Truss is unleashing inflationary measures, the Bank of England is try desperately to crush inflation.

No doubt this has all been carefully thought through in the interests of the country.
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uziq
Member
+487|2935
he didn't say it will work out great. he is against neoliberal trickle-down economics and vocally critical of it. just like those oxford PPE tutors you keep pouring opprobrium on. you seem to have a seriously hard time parsing people's points of view. no doubt because you like the sound of your own ranting a bit too much.

he said that he can't see how the current measures will lead to a currency crisis, as classically and historically understood. the conditions are not the same; the £ is not as vulnerable as, say, east asian tiger economies in the lead-up to their IMF crisis, which was also precipitated by the fed raising interest rates on the $ and trying to curb inflation domestically. that's certainly a part of the general macroeconomic picture here with the £ and Euro's sliding values; but again, not quite the right situation for a currency crash.

you seem to be arguing here that trickle down is bad as if everyone here hasn't been saying it very clearly for years. who are you saying 'good luck' to lmao. you really do love the sound of your own voice mate.

good luck with the unprecedented borrowing to be transferred by the rich into offshore tax-havens
and here i was arguing against printing money for private energy company subsidies, when other european nations have assumed minority, if not controlling, stakes in their industries in return for the same subsidies and taxpayer's largesse ... and you were ... poo'poohing my posts at every turn? lmao. make some fucking sense you cretin.

Last edited by uziq (2022-09-26 07:54:06)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX
A currency crisis only applies to currencies which are pegged to another currency - that was one of his theories no?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_crisis

Is the pound pegged to another currency?
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uziq
Member
+487|2935
erm, which is exactly what i said? you are saying the £ is fucked and i said, citing krugman among others, that the FX markets are making grim reading but we are not approaching a currency crisis, as, i quote, "classically and historically understood".

and well done at not addressing my point about nationalisation and actually getting something back out of our shitty compact with the energy companies this winter. you gloat that we're transferring immense wealth to the super-rich and then criticise me endlessly when i point to the other european states who are actually leveraging political power to get something back from the private energy companies. lmao. you said yourself "a windfall tax would be unfair and hard to devise". now you're laughing that we're printing money for energy CEOs? you are fucking stupid as hell, man, i've got to tell you.

funnily enough, 'reaganomics' did deliver, albeit in a temporary way and for the top 10%, for the UK in the thatcher era because of ... north sea oil. you can fuck with your financial and currency markets and deregulate and lower taxes all you want when you've got an immense export and fire-sale privatisations to your credit shet. we don't have that now and the truss would-be thatcherites are discovering just what does happen.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX
You seem to have a really tenuous grip on anything right now, I said Britain should negotiate a long term pricing structure for the gas that Britain owns, on pain of nationalisation for the extractors.

A windfall tax would be tricky to devise - maybe you should pay one as you're doing a bit better than you have been and some people aren't.

Should every industry face a windfall tax when its doing well or just companies you don't like?
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uziq
Member
+487|2935
a windfall tax has been proposed for the energy companies that are taking record profits during this period. many other european nations have imposed a windfall tax on the same energy companies.

https://www.ft.com/content/c936d529-422 … 4251ed1297
EU targets €140bn from windfall taxes on energy companies

just 'so tricky to devise'!

but, yes, let's impose a 'windfall tax' on the humble UK taxpayer. we already did that for the sake of the energy companies: it's called a subsidy. we've paid tens of billions of 'citizen windfall tax' to the very same private companies.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-c … 64222.html
UK has given oil and gas industry £13.6bn in subsidies since Paris Agreement, say campaigners

is that not my tax money helping to prop up highly profitable companies which post record dividends to their shareholders and endless bonuses their CEOs? also, what? i'm doing 'better than i have been'? my annual salary is the lowest it has been since i was in my early 20s. i'm living and travelling light. my decent hourly rate has been negotiated as a part of my experience/expertise; i'm using it to work less, not stack notes.

we've been here before. your concept of 'capitalism' seems to involve oligopolies, which you are invested in personally, reaping endless rewards with all risk eliminated by the state as a subsidy-stabilising handmaiden. so it's okay for them to take subsidies and enjoy cuts in their tax bills when they need it:- but when the consumer sector is in chaos and the market price mechanism is utterly broken, nothing can be done about it, eh?

you are thick as mince, dilbert.

Last edited by uziq (2022-09-28 03:22:32)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX
Its easy to devise one, hard to devise one which is fair or doesn't have unintended consequences, dur.

"Lets just tax rich people all their money, there I solved the umconomy"
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

my annual salary is the lowest it has been since i was in my early 20s. i'm living and travelling light. my decent hourly rate has been negotiated as a part of my experience/expertise; i'm using it to work less, not stack notes.

you are thick as mince, dilbert.
No, I think it is you who is thick.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

so it's okay for them to take subsidies and enjoy cuts in their tax bills when they need it:- but when the consumer sector is in chaos and the market price mechanism is utterly broken, nothing can be done about it, eh?

you are thick as mince, dilbert.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I said Britain should negotiate a long term pricing structure for the gas that Britain owns, on pain of nationalisation for the extractors.
Once again I suggest it is you who is thick.
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uziq
Member
+487|2935
corporate tax is at a very low level historically in the UK and US – not that it matters when the modus operandi of global capital, post-2008, is to skim off as much profit as possible and park it where it can never be got at by the tax-man

https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/charts/united-kingdom-corporate-tax-rate.png?s=gbrcorptax&v=202107132317V20220312&ismobile=1&w=400&h=250&lbl=0

UK

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Corporate_tax_rates_history.png

USA

ditto the picture for taxing the rich, if you look over the history of the 20th century.

but tell me again that taxing the rich more on their record-breaking profits will 'break the economy'. not that anyone is even proposing increasing base tax levels: a windfall is a one-off, taxing one-off record profits. doesn't seem so 'unfair' to me. they didn't do any more work in the period to justify runaway profits and criminal price hikes.

once again you're doing a jay and seemingly identifying with the capitalist class who regard you as a smear of shit on their shoe.

Last edited by uziq (2022-09-28 03:28:00)

uziq
Member
+487|2935
for the gas that Britain owns
what gas does britain own? it's precisely partial renationalisation or taking ownership stakes that we need to extract in return for these record levels of government borrowing and spaffing up the wall. £130bn in the next 12 months for literally zilch in return? this is good politics or economics to you?

the simple fact is it's not 'complicated' or 'tricky to devise' these things. nations with the political werewithal like france and germany have already done so. the UK, however, has an extremely ideological form of right-wing conservatism that thinks that if you 'unshackle' the ultra-rich and don't get in their way, pennies will fall from heaven. the only reason we aren't discussing renationalisation or windfall taxes is a purely ideological one, not because it's 'difficult' to do so. it's an article of faith for the tories.

'unfair' to the private companies taking record profits. fucking lmao. and it's not 'unfair' that average families have to pay 200% more for their overheads this winter? the unfairness needs to be distributed, dilbert. truss's tories think that letting the rich be as unimpeded as possible will deliver miraculous transformations. truss is a fan of ayn rand, in case you didn't notice.

Last edited by uziq (2022-09-28 03:33:09)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

for the gas that Britain owns
what gas does britain own?
Er, all of it?

Britain owns the gas and oil fields, it allows companies licences to extract it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_and_g … ed_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_oil

Britain needs oil and gas and the tax revenue is handy.
https://www.nstauthority.co.uk/explorat … /overview/
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uziq
Member
+487|2935
ah yes, tax revenue from asking the companies nicely to pay up their small share. as opposed to ... total ownership and a sovereign wealth fund like norway?

norway and the UK went in divergent directions in the 1980s. tell me, who is in the better situation now? 'tax revenue is handy'. you utter pillock. we're just about to hand those companies ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY BILLION QUID in 12 months.

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articl … countries/
a nice read for you from the IET, a professional organisation you no doubt are familiar with.

saying 'britain owns the gas and oil fields' is like saying 'britain owns national rail'. it hardly matters when we lease out the infrastructure to private companies via franchises, who then take all the profit from it with zero of the initial investment cost. FFS dilbert.

Last edited by uziq (2022-09-28 03:53:45)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX
Unfortunately the govt of Britain is populated by Oxford nobs who don't care about your interests or opinion.
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uziq
Member
+487|2935
ok great response. as per usual you have nothing to say, really.

you're weirdly defending the idea of windfall taxes or (partial) renationalisation and you can't even produce a single, salient, good economic reason for it.

when prompted you fall back on 'lol good luck with the oxford nobs'.

very well done! have a biscuit!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5588|eXtreme to the maX
Most other countries seem to do fine with long term contracts and stable gas prices.
They have no need of knee-jerk short term panic steps like windfall taxes.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+487|2935
it's a knee-jerk short-term solution to a short-term emergency in pricing, duh. i don't think anyone is proposing random windfall taxes as a meaningful economic strategy in the mid- to long-term. what are you even arguing about, honestly?

the market pricing mechanism has totally broken down with geopolitical events in the last half a year or so. we are seeing a once in a generation rise in energy costs, alongside rising inflation, which are forecasted to last for 2–3 years at a peak. this is precisely a time for state intervention to help stabilise that broken pricing mechanism. and it's an ample time, too, to restart discussions about public vs. private ownership. we have been sold a long lie that private ownership and leaving it all 'to the market' will deliver the optimum results. until it suddenly hasn't, and we're all printing tax money and taking multi-generational loans to keep the private companies afloat.

it turns out that all that free-market cant was a neat euphemism for 'when the going is good, we and our mates will enjoy the rewards of what rightfully should have been yours as a nation and initial investor; and when it goes bad, the state will actually have to pick up the pieces, anyway, as if it were still the owner'. that just won't do.

you are simply incoherent and contrarian on this topic.

Last edited by uziq (2022-09-28 04:17:29)

Cybargs
Moderated
+2,279|6199

Dilbert_X wrote:

Most other countries seem to do fine with long term contracts and stable gas prices.
stable =/= cheap. there's a big premium for long term contract derp.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

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