Investment

2020-04-14 11:54:27

#451

uziq: Member; +493|3670

he thinks that because people start at $25k/ a year out of college and end up in some instnaces on $200k a year by retirement, that the system is working fine. stop worrying about where all the wealth is going or what other people have. stop being jealous of your boss! he can have a second xbox, as a treat.

jay doesn't understand that 'real wages' against inflation not rising whilst 'real costs' have means that people are poorer. as i've said elsewhere, he's a hog and can only cogitate on the truffle before his snout.

2020-04-14 11:54:59

#452

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3937

uziq wrote:
millenials have to pay a lot for college. college-graduate jobs are located in metropolitan areas. fresh college graduates often have to intern for free in many careers, or work punishingly long hours to get a foot in the door.'

Teaching profession is like this. If you want to work in a good district you either need to work as a sub or aide for a few years or know someone with a position inside that can get you in.

2020-04-14 11:56:16

#453

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5576|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Jay wrote:
KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
jay: haha those dumb millenials comparing their income to their parents
also jay: compares his income at ~40 to a ~30 year old.

Welcome to the ride. Keep all hands and feet inside the cart at all times!
But shouldn't he only expect his 2% cost of living wage increases for the next ten years? That's what everyone gets, right? No one ever has big jumps in salary, ever.
Can you acknowledge how stupid your comment was about millenials expecting to start at the same income as their parents' ended at, since you used the same argument against Uzi less than an hour later?

Not sure what you are talking about regarding big jumps in salary, but i'm almost certain it's due to a misreading or misunderstanding of something i've said.

It wasn't stupid, it was reality. Most of the complaints made by millenials have to do with high cost of living (self inflicted), high student loan debt (potentially self inflicted if they made poor choices), and low wages. They're moving out of their parents house, parents who have been busy building wealth for the past 25 years and are probably living reasonably well, and then they move off on their own and they have sixteen roommates, make 30k a year, and have cinder blocks for a couch. They had a soft life growing up, and starting from scratch is hard, is really what it boils down to.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2020-04-14 11:57:04

#454

uziq: Member; +493|3670

to get into publishing takes 2-3 years of being the editorial assistant, if you're even lucky enough to get into the editorial department and not end up in sales or publicity, gazing across the corridor and talking about 'sideways promotion' every chance you get to your colleagues. publishing pays peanuts but people do it because it's a 'good job'. none of those factors are even worth explaining to jay because he clearly thinks, in his petit-bourgeois way, that your earnings are the sum-total of your success as an individual. jay makes more than publishing directors at FSG so he's definitely way above them on the pecking order. anything else is just snobbery for park slope jews.

the whole idea that someone with a good education would willingly choose a modestly paying job for 'other reasons' is alien to him. sad!

Last edited by uziq (2020-04-14 11:58:03)

2020-04-14 11:57:22

#455

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3937

Larssen wrote:
In the fog of war McNamara said his tuition was 80$ at berkeley & harvard, times have changed.

My father paid $500 a semester in the 80's at the local Catholic university that now wants $38,000 a year in just tuition.

2020-04-14 11:58:14

#456

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5576|London, England

uziq wrote:
he thinks that because people start at $25k/ a year out of college and end up in some instnaces on $200k a year by retirement, that the system is working fine. stop worrying about where all the wealth is going or what other people have. stop being jealous of your boss! he can have a second xbox, as a treat.

jay doesn't understand that 'real wages' against inflation not rising whilst 'real costs' have means that people are poorer. as i've said elsewhere, he's a hog and can only cogitate on the truffle before his snout.

Did I not say that inflation is the real enemy? Pretty sure I did.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2020-04-14 11:59:27

#457

uziq: Member; +493|3670

Jay wrote:
KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Jay wrote:
But shouldn't he only expect his 2% cost of living wage increases for the next ten years? That's what everyone gets, right? No one ever has big jumps in salary, ever.
Can you acknowledge how stupid your comment was about millenials expecting to start at the same income as their parents' ended at, since you used the same argument against Uzi less than an hour later?

Not sure what you are talking about regarding big jumps in salary, but i'm almost certain it's due to a misreading or misunderstanding of something i've said.
It wasn't stupid, it was reality. Most of the complaints made by millenials have to do with high cost of living (self inflicted), high student loan debt (potentially self inflicted if they made poor choices), and low wages. They're moving out of their parents house, parents who have been busy building wealth for the past 25 years and are probably living reasonably well, and then they move off on their own and they have sixteen roommates, make 30k a year, and have cinder blocks for a couch. They had a soft life growing up, and starting from scratch is hard, is really what it boils down to.

what it boils down to, jay, is that most of their parents had access to mortgages or cheap property so that they could acquire major assets in their 20s. getting married or a salaried job in the 1970s was a quick route to getting on the housing ladder. good luck doing that in your 20s now. as larssen and KJ have said passim, people are ticking off the essentials much later in life, which is a bad symptom.

what does it mean to ‘build up wealth’? how do you do that when you can’t afford a housing deposit before you’re 35?

Last edited by uziq (2020-04-14 12:01:31)

2020-04-14 11:59:28

#458

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5576|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:
Larssen wrote:
In the fog of war McNamara said his tuition was 80$ at berkeley & harvard, times have changed.
My father paid $500 a semester in the 80's at the local Catholic university that now wants $38,000 a year in just tuition.

I did a semester at a community college back in 2000 before I joined the army and it was $1500.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2020-04-14 12:00:44

#459

Larssen: Member; +99|2105

Wages have not only not kept up with inflation but also cost. As everyone needs to move to cities and the real estate market is privatised without control the rental and buying prices in many urbanised countries are reaching laughable levels. It's not uncommon for even well educated starters to spend ~50% of their salaries on rent. Houses and appartments meanwhile have exploded 10x in value or more over 30-40 year periods in some locations.

Beyond insurance etc. we've also added a lot of technological necessities to our daily lives increasing the pressure on net incomes.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-14 12:03:06)

2020-04-14 12:02:25

#460

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3937

Jay wrote:
SuperJail Warden wrote:
Larssen wrote:
In the fog of war McNamara said his tuition was 80$ at berkeley & harvard, times have changed.
My father paid $500 a semester in the 80's at the local Catholic university that now wants $38,000 a year in just tuition.
I did a semester at a community college back in 2000 before I joined the army and it was $1500.

The local community college wants $4,500 per semester.

2020-04-14 12:04:53

#461

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6850|949

"most of the complaints made by millenials"

Can i stop you right there, Mr. Millenial Whisperer? Instead of creating a bogeyman to argue against, can we look at the realities? Things like the charts I posted?

Here's nominal wage growth vs. real wage growth (admittedly stolen from wikipedia)

It doesn't matter to me what you think millenials are arguing about. The only thing that I care about it is the reality we live in. Facts, statistics, trends matter - not what someone FEELS is going on. So while you've concocted a nice little narrative to argue against, the fact that growing economic inequality mirrors nicely with political and economic unrest is a more pressing issue to me than your problem with Mackenzie and Brayden having such a soft life (??).

2020-04-14 12:05:19

#462

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5576|London, England

uziq wrote:
Jay wrote:
KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Can you acknowledge how stupid your comment was about millenials expecting to start at the same income as their parents' ended at, since you used the same argument against Uzi less than an hour later?

Not sure what you are talking about regarding big jumps in salary, but i'm almost certain it's due to a misreading or misunderstanding of something i've said.
It wasn't stupid, it was reality. Most of the complaints made by millenials have to do with high cost of living (self inflicted), high student loan debt (potentially self inflicted if they made poor choices), and low wages. They're moving out of their parents house, parents who have been busy building wealth for the past 25 years and are probably living reasonably well, and then they move off on their own and they have sixteen roommates, make 30k a year, and have cinder blocks for a couch. They had a soft life growing up, and starting from scratch is hard, is really what it boils down to.
what it boils down to, jay, is that most of their parents had access to mortgages or cheap property so that they could acquire major assets in their 20s. getting married or a salaried job in the 1970s was a quick route to getting on the housing ladder. good luck doing that in your 20s now. as larssen and KJ have said passim, people are ticking off the essentials much later in life, which is a bad symptom.

Getting married is still the easiest way to kickstart "adulting" and building wealth etc. Is it easy? No. My mortgage absolutely crushed me for the first few years. Do I wish I could go back in time and pay $50k for this house? Fuck yeah. Who should I be mad at? The banks for providing loans that create inflation? The politicians that bailed out the banks? The politicians that encouraged home ownership? The no growth people that protest every expansion of the housing market? What's the solution besides whining about it?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2020-04-14 12:06:49

#463

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5576|London, England

Larssen wrote:
Wages have not only not kept up with inflation but also cost. As everyone needs to move to cities and the real estate market is privatised without control the rental and buying prices in many urbanised countries are reaching laughable levels. It's not uncommon for even well educated starters to spend ~50% of their salaries on rent. Houses and appartments meanwhile have exploded 10x in value or more over 30-40 year periods in some locations.

Beyond insurance etc. we've also added a lot of technological necessities to our daily lives increasing the pressure on net incomes.

Why do you HAVE to move to cities? Many jobs are remote these days. Many jobs are global, in global offices. Working in a major, popular, city is a personal choice, not a requirement.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2020-04-14 12:07:40

#464

uziq: Member; +493|3670

what’s the solution? it’s a little thing called politics jay. a lack of good housing stock or rampant property speculation are not mute alienable facts like wind and weather. you’ve benefitted a great deal from government policy and largesse, jay. i can’t help but question your cognitive dissonance when other people start making noises.

2020-04-14 12:08:33

#465

uziq: Member; +493|3670

Jay wrote:
Larssen wrote:
Wages have not only not kept up with inflation but also cost. As everyone needs to move to cities and the real estate market is privatised without control the rental and buying prices in many urbanised countries are reaching laughable levels. It's not uncommon for even well educated starters to spend ~50% of their salaries on rent. Houses and appartments meanwhile have exploded 10x in value or more over 30-40 year periods in some locations.

Beyond insurance etc. we've also added a lot of technological necessities to our daily lives increasing the pressure on net incomes.
Why do you HAVE to move to cities? Many jobs are remote these days. Many jobs are global, in global offices. Working in a major, popular, city is a personal choice, not a requirement.

hello mckinsey i am a good graduate i got bsc econ from u penn i would like a job but also i am going to stay here in lowell thank you 4 ur time

2020-04-14 12:10:51

#466

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6850|949

You don't have to be mad at anyone, Jay. Life is hard - no one is trying to say it isn't.

You will try to raise your children to have more opportunities and a better life than you had, right? That's what I want to do too- to improve the human condition.

I'm gonna play armchair psychologist (sorry in advance!) and diagnose that you are bitter about having a rough childhood and think that life is too easy for everyone else as a result, and it's clouding your ability to be logical and rational. That's why you keep bleating on about entitled millenials just like every generation complains about the succeeding generation.

2020-04-14 12:11:54

#467

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6850|949

uziq wrote:
Jay wrote:
Larssen wrote:
Wages have not only not kept up with inflation but also cost. As everyone needs to move to cities and the real estate market is privatised without control the rental and buying prices in many urbanised countries are reaching laughable levels. It's not uncommon for even well educated starters to spend ~50% of their salaries on rent. Houses and appartments meanwhile have exploded 10x in value or more over 30-40 year periods in some locations.

Beyond insurance etc. we've also added a lot of technological necessities to our daily lives increasing the pressure on net incomes.
Why do you HAVE to move to cities? Many jobs are remote these days. Many jobs are global, in global offices. Working in a major, popular, city is a personal choice, not a requirement.
hello mckinsey i am a good graduate i got bsc econ from u penn i would like a job but also i am going to stay here in lowell thank you 4 ur time

just learn to code, bro!

2020-04-14 12:12:12

#468

Larssen: Member; +99|2105

Jay wrote:
Why do you HAVE to move to cities? Many jobs are remote these days. Many jobs are global, in global offices. Working in a major, popular, city is a personal choice, not a requirement.

Well that's a cultural thing that hopefully might change with this crisis. The vast majority of employers still only allow limited work from home options and definitely not for starters. This might be a boomer problem, but many startups too demand interaction in person. Educational institutions in Europe at least are also predominantly located in city centres. To attend classes, it's in many cases necessary to move closer to or in cities. People stick around afterwards.

Even if work from home is allowed, showing your face in the office is still an important part of climbing the work ladder and most big employers have their offices in or near cities.

The problem we now have in the west is that the market also promotes ghettoisation. The top 1% live in Manhatten, central london etc. Circled by the top 10, top 20, 30 until you get to the lowest income levels and welfare dependents who all live in city outskirts. No need to point out how that contributes to the creation of toxic environments and generational poverty.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-14 12:13:06)

2020-04-14 12:12:44

#469

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5576|London, England

uziq wrote:
what’s the solution? it’s a little thing called politics jay. a lack of good housing stock or rampant property speculation are not mute alienable facts like wind and weather. you’ve benefitted a great deal from government policy and largesse, jay. i can’t help but question your cognitive dissonance when other people start making noises.

You are aware of NIMBY, yes? You are aware that home owners are a very powerful voting bloc and their primary goal is to protect their own property value, yes? I mean, personally, I don't see my house as a financial investment, so I don't care as much as other people, but those people are politically more powerful than any renters. Between zoning laws, and environmental laws, and public review sessions etc, noisy activists have shut down development all over the most expensive parts of this country. It entrenches and enriches the people who already own property at the expense of people entering the market fresh. I live in one of the most fucked up housing markets in the world. Most of my generation has fled to other states in order to avoid the crushing property prices and taxes. The ones that remain are either doing well enough to stay, even through the pain, or they've inherited homes. I truly wish I had the courage to abandon this place and move someplace cheaper. I would miss my family too much though

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2020-04-14 12:12:55

#470

uziq: Member; +493|3670

jay has it easy. if i could play xbox in a steel girdered bunker for 4 years and then have a free education, i would. instead i had to work my ass off to get a scholarship. life just isn’t fair. we need another war where a few million brown people can die for my subsidies.

2020-04-14 12:14:28

#471

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5576|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
You don't have to be mad at anyone, Jay. Life is hard - no one is trying to say it isn't.

You will try to raise your children to have more opportunities and a better life than you had, right? That's what I want to do too- to improve the human condition.

I'm gonna play armchair psychologist (sorry in advance!) and diagnose that you are bitter about having a rough childhood and think that life is too easy for everyone else as a result, and it's clouding your ability to be logical and rational. That's why you keep bleating on about entitled millenials just like every generation complains about the succeeding generation.

I'm not bleating about entitled millennials. My initial comment was to take what is written by young journalists with a grain of salt because their experiences are atypical.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2020-04-14 12:14:53

#472

uziq: Member; +493|3670

Jay wrote:
uziq wrote:
what’s the solution? it’s a little thing called politics jay. a lack of good housing stock or rampant property speculation are not mute alienable facts like wind and weather. you’ve benefitted a great deal from government policy and largesse, jay. i can’t help but question your cognitive dissonance when other people start making noises.
You are aware of NIMBY, yes? You are aware that home owners are a very powerful voting bloc and their primary goal is to protect their own property value, yes? I mean, personally, I don't see my house as a financial investment, so I don't care as much as other people, but those people are politically more powerful than any renters. Between zoning laws, and environmental laws, and public review sessions etc, noisy activists have shut down development all over the most expensive parts of this country. It entrenches and enriches the people who already own property at the expense of people entering the market fresh. I live in one of the most fucked up housing markets in the world. Most of my generation has fled to other states in order to avoid the crushing property prices and taxes. The ones that remain are either doing well enough to stay, even through the pain, or they've inherited homes. I truly wish I had the courage to abandon this place and move someplace cheaper. I would miss my family too much though

the reason governments won’t depress the value of houses or pierce the bubble is because of the huge amount of banking credit tied up in mortgages. in a country like the UK it is by far the greatest part of the investment portfolio of all our major banks. building more affordable housing will crash the banks. that’s the situation we are in.

2020-04-14 12:15:34

#473

uziq: Member; +493|3670

Jay wrote:
KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
You don't have to be mad at anyone, Jay. Life is hard - no one is trying to say it isn't.

You will try to raise your children to have more opportunities and a better life than you had, right? That's what I want to do too- to improve the human condition.

I'm gonna play armchair psychologist (sorry in advance!) and diagnose that you are bitter about having a rough childhood and think that life is too easy for everyone else as a result, and it's clouding your ability to be logical and rational. That's why you keep bleating on about entitled millenials just like every generation complains about the succeeding generation.
I'm not bleating about entitled millennials. My initial comment was to take what is written by young journalists with a grain of salt because their experiences are atypical.

thank you for the national statistics. please bear in mind that any journalist discussing them is atypical. they definitely went to an ivy and scored low on a SAT.

2020-04-14 12:22:44

#474

SuperJail Warden: Gone Forever; +640|3937

The lady who wrote the article is a staff writer for the Atlantic who studied economics. Her husband and baby's father is the founder of Vox media. She is 1% and probably had a good upbringing. She is not an embittered millennial who had to serve Starbucks.

2020-04-14 12:26:05

#475

uziq: Member; +493|3670

trying to explain to jay that some people might write to express support for or sympathy with another’s point-of-view, in a spirit of disinterested curiosity, is way too much for this thread’s humble remit. we are just getting him to read along the x and y axes of a graph at the same time.

BF2S Forums Investment

uziq wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Larssen wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Larssen wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Larssen wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Larssen wrote:

Jay wrote:

Larssen wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

Larssen wrote:

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

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