well then go back next year and start before the proposals get pushed through!
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
If it costs 2X as much to educate them then they should be charged that much. You get what you pay for. Students here are charged different amounts of money based on which path they choose. With all my lab fees I end up paying about a thousand dollars more for my degree than someone with a degree in the arts would. Doesn't bother me, I use the service and know I have to pay for it. If a school has better professors, and thus higher paid, I would expect to pay more to learn from them.Uzique wrote:
forget that, the INCREASED money taken from tuition fees isn't even going to be returned proportionately to the UNIVERSITY systemJohnG@lt wrote:
The real problem I see with the situation is that the tax money taken in by your government to offset the cost of school is undoubtedly not going to be returned to the taxpayer. Shitty situation that is.
hence people will have less bursary/scholarship funding to get into universities that will be more cash-strapped with shittier libraries/facilities
it's a fucking farce
also: how does a standardised, flat-rate tuition fee take away 'personal responsibility'? are you saying a smart and capable person should somehow take more of a 'responsibility' for their capability because the top-tier university they want to go to costs 2x as much? that's a retarded piece of logic. our future intellectuals and thinkers should pay doubly out the ass to do a course at a high-paying university, which will result in a lower-paying job than the numbskull who went to shit-uni x to get a business studies degree for half the tuition cost. what?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I'd hope that higher tuition fees result in the ending of ridiculous waste of time courses like film studies at Thames Valley University, but on the other hand I wonder if more people will take them than a real course because they still feel they need a degree to get somewhere in life, but don't want to spend more money going to a better school.Uzique wrote:
it's a principle though, galt... i'm not particularly bothered about the cost... nor are many other middle-class families.
BUT the university system in our country (flawed as it is, and stratified by elitism and disparity in education quality) has, to its credit, had the amazing strength of superb accessibility and opportunity in recent years. before the labourites really socialised the whole thing, university here was an elite preserve of the rich and privileged. nowadays i see many people that, perhaps, aren't 'academic' per se, but are still finding places to study certain vocational and practical subjects at lower-entry requirement universities. the quality and 'worth' of their education aside, the main principle to celebrate in my opinion is the fact they pay the SAME as the classics buff at oxford. a guy going to an ex-polytechnic to study 'film studies' or 'sports science' pays the exact same cost, financially, as the toff that skipped through private school and went on to an elite old institution.
that's an extremely applaudable and democratic approach to education... which will now be lost.
Personally I reckon we should kill off all the worthless degrees and the bottom 40 or so ranked universities and stop flooding the market with useless degrees that don't help anyone and just waste taxpayer money.
Zero. That's what loans, scholarships and military service is for Just about the only place that I agree that the middle class gets fucked in this country is when it comes to FAFSA. I've seen mothers break down in tears in the financial aid office when they didn't qualify.SenorToenails wrote:
My parents didn't pay for my education...how many middleclass families can afford to send 4 kids to college all within 5 years?FEOS wrote:
Just as it removes the responsibility from the parents to provide for their children's education, it removes the same responsibility from the individual. It is not the state's responsibility--it is an individual responsibility.
A basic difference in perspective between the UK/Europe and the US in that regard.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Elitist.ghettoperson wrote:
I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I'd hope that higher tuition fees result in the ending of ridiculous waste of time courses like film studies at Thames Valley University, but on the other hand I wonder if more people will take them than a real course because they still feel they need a degree to get somewhere in life, but don't want to spend more money going to a better school.Uzique wrote:
it's a principle though, galt... i'm not particularly bothered about the cost... nor are many other middle-class families.
BUT the university system in our country (flawed as it is, and stratified by elitism and disparity in education quality) has, to its credit, had the amazing strength of superb accessibility and opportunity in recent years. before the labourites really socialised the whole thing, university here was an elite preserve of the rich and privileged. nowadays i see many people that, perhaps, aren't 'academic' per se, but are still finding places to study certain vocational and practical subjects at lower-entry requirement universities. the quality and 'worth' of their education aside, the main principle to celebrate in my opinion is the fact they pay the SAME as the classics buff at oxford. a guy going to an ex-polytechnic to study 'film studies' or 'sports science' pays the exact same cost, financially, as the toff that skipped through private school and went on to an elite old institution.
that's an extremely applaudable and democratic approach to education... which will now be lost.
Personally I reckon we should kill off all the worthless degrees and the bottom 40 or so ranked universities and stop flooding the market with useless degrees that don't help anyone and just waste taxpayer money.
Of course, you are 100000% correct...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Great... There goes my education...
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
Get student loans, get a part time job, major in something that you can get a job with after school. If they are private student loans, the bank will only have you do low interest only payments until a few months after you get your degree or drop out. If it's a federal student loan you don't have to make any payments until you are out of school. In both cases the interest rates are pretty low. Especially for the Federal student loans.SenorToenails wrote:
My parents didn't pay for my education...how many middleclass families can afford to send 4 kids to college all within 5 years?FEOS wrote:
Just as it removes the responsibility from the parents to provide for their children's education, it removes the same responsibility from the individual. It is not the state's responsibility--it is an individual responsibility.
A basic difference in perspective between the UK/Europe and the US in that regard.
I don't see why people bitch and complain so much about rising school cost when, if you think about it, university cost are pretty low compared the average U.S. income levels. People are all too ready to blow money on alcohol, pot, and other shit, I don't see why the people can't burden the cost of their own education more.
If driving the cost of higher education down is a goal, the government could maybe look into cutting some stuff from state schools and maybe restricting government loans to some others.
In any case, I think too many people go to college in this country to begin with...
I dont want to end up in 30k debt as it is, let alone adding another 15k or so on top of that. Education shouldn't be something that only the rich are given.Macbeth wrote:
Get student loans, get a part time job, major in something that you can get a job with after school. If they are private student loans, the bank will only have you do low interest only payments until a few months after you get your degree or drop out. If it's a federal student loan you don't have to make any payments until you are out of school. In both cases the interest rates are pretty low. Especially for the Federal student loans.SenorToenails wrote:
My parents didn't pay for my education...how many middleclass families can afford to send 4 kids to college all within 5 years?FEOS wrote:
Just as it removes the responsibility from the parents to provide for their children's education, it removes the same responsibility from the individual. It is not the state's responsibility--it is an individual responsibility.
A basic difference in perspective between the UK/Europe and the US in that regard.
I don't see why people bitch and complain so much about rising school cost when, if you think about it, university cost are pretty low compared the average U.S. income levels. People are all too ready to blow money on alcohol, pot, and other shit, I don't see why the people can't burden the cost of their own education more.
If driving the cost of higher education down is a goal, the government could maybe look into cutting some stuff from state schools and maybe restricting government loans to some others.
In any case, I think too many people go to college in this country to begin with...
As for a part time job, you try finding one that pays enough to go to university on. I worked sundays and afternoons last year when i wasnt studying and I earned 2.5 thousand
Last edited by presidentsheep (2010-11-03 15:19:14)
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
It's not that too many people go to college -- it's that we stress academic degrees too much.Macbeth wrote:
In any case, I think too many people go to college in this country to begin with...
There should be a greater emphasis on technical degrees, since a lot of students are just more talented at technical fields.
To be honest, getting a technical degree will typically help you find a steady job that pays decent much faster than an academic degree will.
It's not. You just have to pay for it. Why is it your right to go to college? It benefits you does it not? You can expect to earn a higher salary with a degree, why bitch about a few thousand dollars more to repay? This has nothing to do with 'only the rich will be able to afford it' because even here in the US, with our outrageous costs, even our poorest have access to a college education.presidentsheep wrote:
I dont want to end up in 30k debt as it is, let alone adding another 15k or so on top of that. Education shouldn't be something that only the rich are given.Macbeth wrote:
Get student loans, get a part time job, major in something that you can get a job with after school. If they are private student loans, the bank will only have you do low interest only payments until a few months after you get your degree or drop out. If it's a federal student loan you don't have to make any payments until you are out of school. In both cases the interest rates are pretty low. Especially for the Federal student loans.SenorToenails wrote:
My parents didn't pay for my education...how many middleclass families can afford to send 4 kids to college all within 5 years?
I don't see why people bitch and complain so much about rising school cost when, if you think about it, university cost are pretty low compared the average U.S. income levels. People are all too ready to blow money on alcohol, pot, and other shit, I don't see why the people can't burden the cost of their own education more.
If driving the cost of higher education down is a goal, the government could maybe look into cutting some stuff from state schools and maybe restricting government loans to some others.
In any case, I think too many people go to college in this country to begin with...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
generally your accumulated debt over 4 years in college should be less than or equal to the annual salary of your first job to effectively pay off the debt.
Since I've been paying my student loans off just fine for 2 years now...thanks for the info? I finished graduate school 2.5 years ago, lol.Macbeth wrote:
Get student loans, get a part time job, major in something that you can get a job with after school. If they are private student loans, the bank will only have you do low interest only payments until a few months after you get your degree or drop out. If it's a federal student loan you don't have to make any payments until you are out of school. In both cases the interest rates are pretty low. Especially for the Federal student loans.
As for this...
When I started going to university, my loans were small and all was well. But then they started the whole 5-7%/year tuition hike with only marginal increases in scholarships and grants. That shit adds up over 4 years. But hey, I agreed to pay the banks back for it all, so I sure as hell will as fast as I possibly can. Increases like that will little to no justification are why people like me complain--they get you for one price, then hike it up for the next 3 years. But I made sure I got the most for my money--2 BS's and a MS. I think I ended up alright, and now I just loathe my loan servicers...but I pay them just the same.Macbeth wrote:
I don't see why people bitch and complain so much about rising school cost when, if you think about it, university cost are pretty low compared the average U.S. income levels. People are all too ready to blow money on alcohol, pot, and other shit, I don't see why the people can't burden the cost of their own education more.
While technically correct, community colleges just aren't the same as a top tier research university. Those universities are the ones that charge a fuckton.JohnG@lt wrote:
This has nothing to do with 'only the rich will be able to afford it' because even here in the US, with our outrageous costs, even our poorest have access to a college education.
I've never heard such a factoid before. Perhaps it should be, but how often is it actually?Cybargs wrote:
generally your accumulated debt over 4 years in college should be less than or equal to the annual salary of your first job to effectively pay off the debt.
an advice ive heard from collegeconfidential.comSenorToenails wrote:
I've never heard such a factoid before. Perhaps it should be, but how often is it actually?Cybargs wrote:
generally your accumulated debt over 4 years in college should be less than or equal to the annual salary of your first job to effectively pay off the debt.
right so all the master's programs and harvard-yale graduates immediately go into a half a million dollar salaried job?Cybargs wrote:
generally your accumulated debt over 4 years in college should be less than or equal to the annual salary of your first job to effectively pay off the debt.
dude what the fuck are you talking about
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Cybargs wrote:
an advice ive heard from collegeconfidential.com
Cybargs wrote:
advice ive heard from collegeconfidential.com
Cybargs wrote:
ive heard from collegeconfidential.com
Cybargs wrote:
heard from collegeconfidential.com
Cybargs wrote:
from collegeconfidential.com
-_-Cybargs wrote:
collegeconfidential.com
I wonder how often people actually manage to achieve that...Cybargs wrote:
an advice ive heard from collegeconfidential.comSenorToenails wrote:
I've never heard such a factoid before. Perhaps it should be, but how often is it actually?Cybargs wrote:
generally your accumulated debt over 4 years in college should be less than or equal to the annual salary of your first job to effectively pay off the debt.
i said 4 years undergrad. shouldve clarified if youre carrying the debt by yourself (no parents, scholarships, grants etc).Uzique wrote:
right so all the master's programs and harvard-yale graduates immediately go into a half a million dollar salaried job?Cybargs wrote:
generally your accumulated debt over 4 years in college should be less than or equal to the annual salary of your first job to effectively pay off the debt.
dude what the fuck are you talking about
Why do people feel the need to 'reduce' statements in such an obnoxious fashion?Macbeth wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
an advice ive heard from collegeconfidential.comCybargs wrote:
advice ive heard from collegeconfidential.comCybargs wrote:
ive heard from collegeconfidential.comCybargs wrote:
heard from collegeconfidential.comCybargs wrote:
from collegeconfidential.com-_-Cybargs wrote:
collegeconfidential.com
Why do people feel the need to comment on others people post?SenorToenails wrote:
Why do people feel the need to 'reduce' statements in such an obnoxious fashion?Macbeth wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
an advice ive heard from collegeconfidential.comCybargs wrote:
advice ive heard from collegeconfidential.comCybargs wrote:
ive heard from collegeconfidential.comCybargs wrote:
heard from collegeconfidential.comCybargs wrote:
from collegeconfidential.com-_-Cybargs wrote:
collegeconfidential.com
4 years of undergrad at $75k a yearCybargs wrote:
i said 4 years undergrad. shouldve clarified if youre carrying the debt by yourself (no parents, scholarships, grants etc).Uzique wrote:
right so all the master's programs and harvard-yale graduates immediately go into a half a million dollar salaried job?Cybargs wrote:
generally your accumulated debt over 4 years in college should be less than or equal to the annual salary of your first job to effectively pay off the debt.
dude what the fuck are you talking about
$300k starting salary for a job?
cybargs it would be nice if once, just once, you came into a thread knowing just what the fuck you're talking about
i think the average graduate salary in the UK is £21-25k... with £27k debt MINIMUM at the end of a 3 year (MINIMUM) degree... that's going to take you a hell of a lot longer than your first year of work. and that's the UK, where our fees are still capped to a ('reasonable') level. just stop talking such utter shite.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
It's the very nature of an internet forum, is it not?Macbeth wrote:
Why do people feel the need to comment on others people post?
enjoy paying off your college debts till you're fifty.Uzique wrote:
4 years of undergrad at $75k a yearCybargs wrote:
i said 4 years undergrad. shouldve clarified if youre carrying the debt by yourself (no parents, scholarships, grants etc).Uzique wrote:
right so all the master's programs and harvard-yale graduates immediately go into a half a million dollar salaried job?
dude what the fuck are you talking about
$300k starting salary for a job?
cybargs it would be nice if once, just once, you came into a thread knowing just what the fuck you're talking about
i think the average graduate salary in the UK is £21-25k... with £27k debt MINIMUM at the end of a 3 year (MINIMUM) degree... that's going to take you a hell of a lot longer than your first year of work. and that's the UK, where our fees are still capped to a ('reasonable') level. just stop talking such utter shite.
wtf 75k per year for undergrad?
mosts schools are well UNDER 20k PER YEAR including room and board, not to mention getting financial support from parents and grants.
Almost all the Ivy league schools cover the cost of middle class and poor students and only make the rich kids pay for it.Cybargs wrote:
enjoy paying off your college debts till you're fifty.Uzique wrote:
4 years of undergrad at $75k a yearCybargs wrote:
i said 4 years undergrad. shouldve clarified if youre carrying the debt by yourself (no parents, scholarships, grants etc).
$300k starting salary for a job?
cybargs it would be nice if once, just once, you came into a thread knowing just what the fuck you're talking about
i think the average graduate salary in the UK is £21-25k... with £27k debt MINIMUM at the end of a 3 year (MINIMUM) degree... that's going to take you a hell of a lot longer than your first year of work. and that's the UK, where our fees are still capped to a ('reasonable') level. just stop talking such utter shite.
wtf 75k per year for undergrad?
mosts schools are well UNDER 20k PER YEAR including room and board, not to mention getting financial support from parents and grants.
According to Forbes an Ivy League school is going to pay off.
http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/30/colleg … peed=20000