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2010-11-04 08:40:00
Ticia
Member
+73|5610

Uzique wrote:

Ticia wrote:

Exceptionalism?  Talk about a sophistic overstate

Just because the USA has some originality, when it comes to political thought and history they have always been heavily influenced by European ideas and experience. Nothing to be proud but nothing to be ashamed of either.
american exceptionalism is considered a legitimate social and political ideology.

he's not coining a new phrase there.

it stems from winthrop's "city on a hill" puritan ideal and has been traced through history in one form or another since then
As legitimate as any other bullshit theory.

I'm sure the British feel the same way, the French are unique en son genre and the Greeks are pissed off because their exceptionalism is nothing but trouble these days.

Point is in the grand scheme that is the world US power is economical, once you loose it to some other country American exceptionalism will be nothing more than the indifference of others.
2010-11-04 08:45:22
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6680|North Carolina
So the general gist of it is that exceptionalism has a very limited shelf-life for any given country.
2010-11-04 08:49:31
Ticia
Member
+73|5610

Turquoise wrote:

So the general gist of it is that exceptionalism has a very limited shelf-life for any given country.
Pretty much.
We were the flavor of the week once too and look at us now. It's almost funny in its sadness.
2010-11-04 08:52:50
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5633|London, England

Ticia wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

So the general gist of it is that exceptionalism has a very limited shelf-life for any given country.
Pretty much.
We were the flavor of the week once too and look at us now. It's almost funny in its sadness.
You missed the point. It's not that we're special, or what the world should look up to. We're simply unique because of form of government and lack of class structure. It has nothing to do with Americans being better than other people, it's simply that we have more opportunity to 'follow our stars'.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-04 08:53:28
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6680|North Carolina

Ticia wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

So the general gist of it is that exceptionalism has a very limited shelf-life for any given country.
Pretty much.
We were the flavor of the week once too and look at us now. It's almost funny in its sadness.
It's not really sad, to be honest.  It's actually preferable to be a prosperous country that no one really points that much attention towards.  Look at Canada, for example.  They can criticize us with the rest of the world, make plenty of progress for their own citizens, and all the same, no one really expects them to intervene in world conflicts.  They still choose to do so as a nice gesture, but it's purely of their own volition.

When you're the largest target in the world, it kind of sucks.
2010-11-04 08:54:44
EVieira
Member
+105|6753|Lutenblaag, Molvania

oug wrote:

I think it's true. I mean, the US has everything the other countries have in terms of natural beauty etc

plus on a personal level you can just choose what you want to do in life and just do it... less restrictions, less boundaries, all in all fewer obstacles to overcome...

if you work hard enough the money is sure to come and you don't have to depend on anyone but yourself. I think that's the main difference that sets the US apart. It's the one place where everyone has an equal chance to be successful.
Freedom and economic power, that makes a great combination. The land of opportunity. But does that validate American Exceptionalism? I don't think so. That does not put american society in a higher ground to others, a "city in the hill".

The US is exceptional in many ways, mainly economic, but that does not validate American Exceptionalism.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2010-11-04 08:56:16
Ticia
Member
+73|5610

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ticia wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

So the general gist of it is that exceptionalism has a very limited shelf-life for any given country.
Pretty much.
We were the flavor of the week once too and look at us now. It's almost funny in its sadness.
You missed the point. It's not that we're special, or what the world should look up to. We're simply unique because of form of government and lack of class structure. It has nothing to do with Americans being better than other people, it's simply that we have more opportunity to 'follow our stars'.
Follow ous stars? Are you what a 4 year old Palin wannabe?
2010-11-04 08:57:09
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5633|London, England

EVieira wrote:

oug wrote:

I think it's true. I mean, the US has everything the other countries have in terms of natural beauty etc

plus on a personal level you can just choose what you want to do in life and just do it... less restrictions, less boundaries, all in all fewer obstacles to overcome...

if you work hard enough the money is sure to come and you don't have to depend on anyone but yourself. I think that's the main difference that sets the US apart. It's the one place where everyone has an equal chance to be successful.
Freedom and economic power, that makes a great combination. The land of opportunity. But does that validate American Exceptionalism? I don't think so. That does not put american society in a higher ground to others, a "city in the hill".

The US is exceptional in many ways, mainly economic, but that does not validate American Exceptionalism.
For the last time, it doesn't mean that Americans by birth are better than other people in the world. That thinking is ludicrous. We simply have an exceptional ability to follow our hearts and minds and make a place for ourselves in the world without being pigeonholed by our station in life. Poor people can become billionaires and billionaires can become paupers. They each have the same rights.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-04 08:57:57
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5633|London, England

Ticia wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ticia wrote:


Pretty much.
We were the flavor of the week once too and look at us now. It's almost funny in its sadness.
You missed the point. It's not that we're special, or what the world should look up to. We're simply unique because of form of government and lack of class structure. It has nothing to do with Americans being better than other people, it's simply that we have more opportunity to 'follow our stars'.
Follow ous stars? Are you what a 4 year old Palin wannabe?
It was a quote from "A Knight's Tale"
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-04 08:59:35
Ticia
Member
+73|5610

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ticia wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


You missed the point. It's not that we're special, or what the world should look up to. We're simply unique because of form of government and lack of class structure. It has nothing to do with Americans being better than other people, it's simply that we have more opportunity to 'follow our stars'.
Follow ous stars? Are you what a 4 year old Palin wannabe?
It was a quote from "A Knight's Tale"
Ah...so you're a teenage girl instead,right?
2010-11-04 09:00:12
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6680|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ticia wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


You missed the point. It's not that we're special, or what the world should look up to. We're simply unique because of form of government and lack of class structure. It has nothing to do with Americans being better than other people, it's simply that we have more opportunity to 'follow our stars'.
Follow ous stars? Are you what a 4 year old Palin wannabe?
It was a quote from "A Knight's Tale"
I thought you "got it from a book."
2010-11-04 09:02:10
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5633|London, England

Ticia wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ticia wrote:


Follow ous stars? Are you what a 4 year old Palin wannabe?
It was a quote from "A Knight's Tale"
Ah...so you're a teenage girl instead,right?
Heath Ledger was dreamy.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-04 09:04:45
EVieira
Member
+105|6753|Lutenblaag, Molvania

JohnG@lt wrote:

EVieira wrote:

oug wrote:

I think it's true. I mean, the US has everything the other countries have in terms of natural beauty etc

plus on a personal level you can just choose what you want to do in life and just do it... less restrictions, less boundaries, all in all fewer obstacles to overcome...

if you work hard enough the money is sure to come and you don't have to depend on anyone but yourself. I think that's the main difference that sets the US apart. It's the one place where everyone has an equal chance to be successful.
Freedom and economic power, that makes a great combination. The land of opportunity. But does that validate American Exceptionalism? I don't think so. That does not put american society in a higher ground to others, a "city in the hill".

The US is exceptional in many ways, mainly economic, but that does not validate American Exceptionalism.
For the last time, it doesn't mean that Americans by birth are better than other people in the world. That thinking is ludicrous. We simply have an exceptional ability to follow our hearts and minds and make a place for ourselves in the world without being pigeonholed by our station in life. Poor people can become billionaires and billionaires can become paupers. They each have the same rights.
Thats great and fantastic and exceptional, but its the same pretty much in all of the free world.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2010-11-04 09:06:13
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5633|London, England

EVieira wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

EVieira wrote:


Freedom and economic power, that makes a great combination. The land of opportunity. But does that validate American Exceptionalism? I don't think so. That does not put american society in a higher ground to others, a "city in the hill".

The US is exceptional in many ways, mainly economic, but that does not validate American Exceptionalism.
For the last time, it doesn't mean that Americans by birth are better than other people in the world. That thinking is ludicrous. We simply have an exceptional ability to follow our hearts and minds and make a place for ourselves in the world without being pigeonholed by our station in life. Poor people can become billionaires and billionaires can become paupers. They each have the same rights.
Thats great and fantastic and exceptional, but its the same pretty much in all of the free world.
Not quite. In your own country, does one of those street children you guys like to murder have a shot at becoming president?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-04 09:07:18
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6680|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

EVieira wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


For the last time, it doesn't mean that Americans by birth are better than other people in the world. That thinking is ludicrous. We simply have an exceptional ability to follow our hearts and minds and make a place for ourselves in the world without being pigeonholed by our station in life. Poor people can become billionaires and billionaires can become paupers. They each have the same rights.
Thats great and fantastic and exceptional, but its the same pretty much in all of the free world.
Not quite. In your own country, does one of those street children you guys like to murder have a shot at becoming president?
"have a shot"...  god.. bad phrasing...  lol

Well, the average person here doesn't have a shot either.
2010-11-04 09:09:24
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5633|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

EVieira wrote:


Thats great and fantastic and exceptional, but its the same pretty much in all of the free world.
Not quite. In your own country, does one of those street children you guys like to murder have a shot at becoming president?
"have a shot"...  god.. bad phrasing...  lol

Well, the average person here doesn't have a shot either.
Crawl under a rock and die already you pessimistic whiner.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-04 09:10:46
Ticia
Member
+73|5610

JohnG@lt wrote:

EVieira wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


For the last time, it doesn't mean that Americans by birth are better than other people in the world. That thinking is ludicrous. We simply have an exceptional ability to follow our hearts and minds and make a place for ourselves in the world without being pigeonholed by our station in life. Poor people can become billionaires and billionaires can become paupers. They each have the same rights.
Thats great and fantastic and exceptional, but its the same pretty much in all of the free world.
Not quite. In your own country, does one of those street children you guys like to murder have a shot at becoming president?

You must do a little research on Lula, Galtie.
2010-11-04 09:13:03
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6680|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Not quite. In your own country, does one of those street children you guys like to murder have a shot at becoming president?
"have a shot"...  god.. bad phrasing...  lol

Well, the average person here doesn't have a shot either.
Crawl under a rock and die already you pessimistic whiner.
I figured you would go for the more standard FOAD response.  You're putting more effort into this.  That's a good sign.

Seriously though...  why do people believe in this pie-in-the-sky shit?  It's like a religion unto itself.
2010-11-04 09:14:24
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5633|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


"have a shot"...  god.. bad phrasing...  lol

Well, the average person here doesn't have a shot either.
Crawl under a rock and die already you pessimistic whiner.
I figured you would go for the more standard FOAD response.  You're putting more effort into this.  That's a good sign.

Seriously though...  why do people believe in this pie-in-the-sky shit?  It's like a religion unto itself.
Because it's real. 2/3rds of American billionaires started with nothing. You whine and cry and bitch and moan because it wasn't simply handed to you as your birthright. Tough shit.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-04 09:18:15
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6680|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Crawl under a rock and die already you pessimistic whiner.
I figured you would go for the more standard FOAD response.  You're putting more effort into this.  That's a good sign.

Seriously though...  why do people believe in this pie-in-the-sky shit?  It's like a religion unto itself.
Because it's real. 2/3rds of American billionaires started with nothing. You whine and cry and bitch and moan because it wasn't simply handed to you as your birthright. Tough shit.
I think you're confusing me with people who assume going to any university is a right.

I really don't care anymore.  There's rich and poor, and there always will be.  I'm not denying that.  I just don't buy into the "anyone can be a billionaire" idea.

I'm not trying to set up some grand society, nor am I believing in any idealistic shit besides that.  All I know is what I want and how I'd like to get it.

It's not about whining.  It's just about making fun of ideas that don't make sense.
2010-11-04 09:20:33
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6956|Disaster Free Zone

oug wrote:

I think it's true. I mean, the US has everything the other countries have in terms of natural beauty etc

plus on a personal level you can just choose what you want to do in life and just do it... less restrictions, less boundaries, all in all fewer obstacles to overcome...

if you work hard enough the money is sure to come and you don't have to depend on anyone but yourself. I think that's the main difference that sets the US apart. It's the one place where everyone has an equal chance to be successful.
What??

Where else can't you do that? And with far less stress.
2010-11-04 09:20:55
EVieira
Member
+105|6753|Lutenblaag, Molvania

JohnG@lt wrote:

EVieira wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


For the last time, it doesn't mean that Americans by birth are better than other people in the world. That thinking is ludicrous. We simply have an exceptional ability to follow our hearts and minds and make a place for ourselves in the world without being pigeonholed by our station in life. Poor people can become billionaires and billionaires can become paupers. They each have the same rights.
That's great and fantastic and exceptional, but its the same pretty much in all of the free world.
Not quite. In your own country, does one of those street children you guys like to murder have a shot at becoming president?
Brazil's current president was dirt poor, and fought his way up all the way to the presidency. He was a candidate four times before he finally won. Although I disagree with him on many issues, he has brought this country much economic development.

Our recently elected president (this sunday, actually) was beaten and tortured by Brazil's past military governments, fought in the resistance and eventually became president too. And its a woman.

So yes, in Brazil, with all the hardships we endure now and have endured in our recent past, if you work hard enough you can make it. And that's exceptional.

Does that validate some Brazilian Exceptionalism theory? Hell no...
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2010-11-04 09:26:33
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6956|Disaster Free Zone

JohnG@lt wrote:

EVieira wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

For the last time, it doesn't mean that Americans by birth are better than other people in the world. That thinking is ludicrous. We simply have an exceptional ability to follow our hearts and minds and make a place for ourselves in the world without being pigeonholed by our station in life. Poor people can become billionaires and billionaires can become paupers. They each have the same rights.
Thats great and fantastic and exceptional, but its the same pretty much in all of the free world.
Not quite. In your own country, does one of those street children you guys like to murder have a shot at becoming president?
You know what G@lt, our country is so progressive even you could come here and become president Prime Minister. Hell, we have a women from Wales doing the job right now.
2010-11-04 09:28:55
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5633|London, England

DrunkFace wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

EVieira wrote:


Thats great and fantastic and exceptional, but its the same pretty much in all of the free world.
Not quite. In your own country, does one of those street children you guys like to murder have a shot at becoming president?
You know what G@lt, our country is so progressive even you could come here and become president Prime Minister. Hell, we have a women from Wales doing the job right now.
Cool. Our only requirement is that our President is born here and he's over the age of 35.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-11-04 09:31:44
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6991

JohnG@lt wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Not quite. In your own country, does one of those street children you guys like to murder have a shot at becoming president?
You know what G@lt, our country is so progressive even you could come here and become president Prime Minister. Hell, we have a women from Wales doing the job right now.
Cool. Our only requirement is that our President is born here and he's over the age of 35.
i think they should change that to having residency in the US for at least 20 years. but sadly that shit won't change.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

 

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