Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

Shahter wrote:

no offence taken. it is, however, all relative. for the reasons i mentioned above, the standarts of living comparable with the west cannot be achieved in russia at all - not as long as it has its present enormous population. however, for perspective, try googling what it was like before bolsheviks got in power: every bad harvest ment tens of thousands dead back then, each and every time without fail. i'm not even going into education levels and all that jazz. soviets managed to not only considerably raise the standarts of living, but also had very orderly and stable society running here - and all that while they'd been actively compeeting with the west in almost every field where competition usually happens between nations and ideologies. imagine what it would be like if they didn't have to dedicate three quarters of their economy to military, huh?
and then look what we have here now...
Well, I will agree that Russia seems to have a good education system in most respects, although I would imagine history courses are somewhat selective in their material and perspectives.

I don't think Russia's population size is what is holding it back, although I agree that prior military expenditures most likely did.

I think America proves that you can have a country with a large population and still have a high standard of living.  The only downsides to our design in this respect are wealth disparity and major differences in cost of living (and wages) throughout the country.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

Shahter wrote:

it's totally dependant on an average cost of having someone work for you in a certain place. in russia where winter lasts for six months you'd have to pay ten times as much for energy alone to have any working place set up and running as you would pay for the same working place in china. climate alone makes it so there's almost NO business case for which russia would win over china in manufacturing costs.
Well, if nothing else, GM apparently feels that Russia is a good place for manufacturing.  They just recently built a huge factory there.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6775|Moscow, Russia

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:


It's totally dependent upon the business case. In comparison to doing it in Germany, the economy of scale realized by moving it out to Russia is a net savings.
it's totally dependant on an average cost of having someone work for you in a certain place. in russia where winter lasts for six months you'd have to pay ten times as much for energy alone to have any working place set up and running as you would pay for the same working place in china. climate alone makes it so there's almost NO business case for which russia would win over china in manufacturing costs.
Go back and re-read the article. The clear implication is that the manufacturing capacity is already there...Germany just needs to leverage the labor pool, which is cheaper than Germany's. Then take into account shipping costs from China as compared to energy costs in Russia...
... and russia would still loose. that article is outright retarded - whoever wrote it doesn't know what he's talking about.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6601|132 and Bush

FEOS wrote:

Kmar wrote:

FEOS wrote:


We haven't been a "melting pot" for decades.

We're more of a "tossed salad"...and not in a good way.
Right.. so lets just go ahead and warm up the ovens.
Whoa whoa whoa!

You've done a logical leap right off the building and gone face first into the brick wall of the building next door. Where the hell did THAT come from?

You can see by some of the points I've highlighted below--and applying them to the US, as opposed to Germany--that multiculturalism is not necessarily a good thing. That's not to say that we need to develop a "final solution". I never implied--nor would I ever imply--anything of the sort.

An in-depth look at the German issue from STRATFOR:

STRATFOR wrote:

October 19, 2010 | 0855 GMT

Germany and the Failure of Multiculturalism

By George Friedman

German Chancellor Angela Merkel declared at an Oct. 16 meeting of young members of her party, the Christian Democratic Union, that multiculturalism, or Multikulti, as the Germans put it, “has failed totally.” Horst Seehofer, minister-president of Bavaria and the chairman of a sister party to the Christian Democrats, said at the same meeting that the two parties were “committed to a dominant German culture and opposed to a multicultural one.” Merkel also said that the flood of immigrants is holding back the German economy, although Germany does need more highly trained specialists, as opposed to the laborers who have sought economic advantages in Germany.

The statements were striking in their bluntness and their willingness to speak of a dominant German culture, a concept that for obvious reasons Germans have been sensitive about asserting since World War II. The statement should be taken with utmost seriousness and considered for its social and geopolitical implications. It should also be considered in the broader context of Europe’s response to immigration, not to Germany’s response alone.

The Origins of the German Immigration Question

Let’s begin with the origins of the problem. Post-World War II Germany faced a severe labor shortage for two reasons: a labor pool depleted by the devastating war — and by Soviet prisoner-of-war camps — and the economic miracle that began on the back of revived industry in the 1950s. Initially, Germany was able to compensate by admitting ethnic Germans fleeing Central Europe and Communist East Germany. But the influx only helped assuage the population loss from World War II. Germany needed more labor to feed its burgeoning export-based industry, and in particular more unskilled laborers for manufacturing, construction and other industries.

To resolve the continuing labor shortage, Germany turned to a series of successive labor recruitment deals, first with Italy (1955). After labor from Italy dried up due to Italy’s own burgeoning economy, Germany turned to Spain (1960), Greece (1960), Turkey (1961) and then Yugoslavia (1968). Labor recruitment led to a massive influx of “Gastarbeiter,” German for “guest workers,” into German society. The Germans did not see this as something that would change German society: They regarded the migrants as temporary labor, not as immigrants in any sense. As the term implied, the workers were guests and would return to their countries of origin when they were no longer needed (many Spaniards, Italians and Portuguese did just this). This did not particularly trouble the Germans, who were primarily interested in labor.

The Germans simply didn’t expect this to be a long-term issue. They did not consider how to assimilate these migrants, a topic that rarely came up in policy discussions. Meanwhile, the presence of migrant labor allowed millions of Germans to move from unskilled labor to white-collar jobs during the 1960s.

An economic slowdown in 1966 and full-on recession following the oil shock of 1973 changed labor conditions in Germany. Germany no longer needed a steady stream of unskilled labor and actually found itself facing mounting unemployment among migrants already in country, leading to the “Anwerbestopp,” German for “labor recruitment stop,” in 1973.

Nonetheless, the halt in migration did not resolve the fact that guest workers already were in Germany in great numbers, migrants who now wanted to bring in family members. The 1970s saw most migration switch to “family reunions” and, when the German government moved to close that loophole, asylum. As the Italians, Spanish and Portuguese returned home to tend to their countries’ own successive economic miracles, Muslim Turks became the overwhelming majority of migrants in Germany — particularly as asylum seekers flocked into Germany, most of whom were not fleeing any real government retribution. It did not help that Germany had particularly open asylum laws in large part due to guilt over the Holocaust, a loophole Turkish migrants exploited en masse following the 1980 coup d’etat in Turkey.

As the migrants transformed from a temporary exigency to a multigenerational community, the Germans had to confront the problem. At base, they did not want the migrants to become part of Germany. But if they were to remain in the country, Berlin wanted to make sure the migrants became loyal to Germany. The onus on assimilating migrants into the larger society increased as Muslim discontent rocked Europe in the 1980s. The solution Germans finally agreed upon in the mid-to-late 1980s was multiculturalism, a liberal and humane concept that offered migrants a grand bargain: Retain your culture but pledge loyalty to the state.

In this concept, Turkish immigrants, for example, would not be expected to assimilate into German culture. Rather, they would retain their own culture, including language and religion, and that culture would coexist with German culture. Thus, there would be a large number of foreigners, many of whom could not speak German and by definition did not share German and European values.

While respecting diversity, the policy seemed to amount to buying migrant loyalty. The deeper explanation was that the Germans did not want, and did not know how, to assimilate culturally, linguistically, religiously and morally diverse people. Multiculturalism did not so much represent respect for diversity as much as a way to escape the question of what it meant to be German and what pathways foreigners would follow to become Germans.

Two Notions of Nation

This goes back to the European notion of the nation, which is substantially different from the American notion. For most of its history, the United States thought of itself as a nation of immigrants, but with a core culture that immigrants would have to accept in a well-known multicultural process. Anyone could become an American, so long as they accepted the language and dominant culture of the nation. This left a lot of room for uniqueness, but some values had to be shared. Citizenship became a legal concept. It required a process, an oath and shared values. Nationality could be acquired; it had a price.

To be French, Polish or Greek meant not only that you learned their respective language or adopted their values — it meant that you were French, Polish or Greek because your parents were, as were their parents. It meant a shared history of suffering and triumph. One couldn’t acquire that.

For the Europeans, multiculturalism was not the liberal and humane respect for other cultures that it pretended to be. It was a way to deal with the reality that a large pool of migrants had been invited as workers into the country. The offer of multiculturalism was a grand bargain meant to lock in migrant loyalty in exchange for allowing them to keep their culture — and to protect European culture from foreign influences by sequestering the immigrants. The Germans tried to have their workers and a German identity simultaneously. It didn’t work.

Multiculturalism resulted in the permanent alienation of the immigrants. Having been told to keep their own identity, they did not have a shared interest in the fate of Germany. They identified with the country they came from much more than with Germany. Turkey was home. Germany was a convenience. It followed that their primary loyalty was to their home and not to Germany. The idea that a commitment to one’s homeland culture was compatible with a political loyalty to the nation one lived in was simplistic. Things don’t work that way. As a result, Germany did not simply have an alien mass in its midst: Given the state of affairs between the Islamic world and the West, at least some Muslim immigrants were engaged in potential terrorism.

Multiculturalism is profoundly divisive, particularly in countries that define the nation in European terms, e.g., through nationality. What is fascinating is that the German chancellor has chosen to become the most aggressive major European leader to speak out against multiculturalism. Her reasons, political and social, are obvious. But it must also be remembered that this is Germany, which previously addressed the problem of the German nation via the Holocaust. In the 65 years since the end of World War II, the Germans have been extraordinarily careful to avoid discussions of this issue, and German leaders have not wanted to say things such as being committed to a dominant German culture. We therefore need to look at the failure of multiculturalism in Germany in another sense, namely, with regard to what is happening in Germany.

Simply put, Germany is returning to history. It has spent the past 65 years desperately trying not to confront the question of national identity, the rights of minorities in Germany and the exercise of German self-interest. The Germans have embedded themselves in multinational groupings like the European Union and NATO to try to avoid a discussion of a simple and profound concept: nationalism. Given what they did last time the matter came up, they are to be congratulated for their exercise of decent silence. But that silence is now over.

The Re-emergence of German Nation Awareness

Two things have forced the re-emergence of German national awareness. The first, of course, is the immediate issue — a large and indigestible mass of Turkish and other Muslim workers. The second is the state of the multinational organizations to which Germany tried to confine itself. NATO, a military alliance consisting mainly of countries lacking militaries worth noting, is moribund. The second is the state of the European Union. After the Greek and related economic crises, the certainties about a united Europe have frayed. Germany now sees itself as shaping EU institutions so as not to be forced into being the European Union’s ultimate financial guarantor. And this compels Germany to think about Germany beyond its relations with Europe.

It is impossible for Germany to reconsider its position on multiculturalism without, at the same time, validating the principle of the German nation. Once the principle of the nation exists, so does the idea of a national interest. Once the national interest exists, Germany exists in the context of the European Union only as what Goethe termed an “elective affinity.” What was a certainty amid the Cold War now becomes an option. And if Europe becomes an option for Germany, then not only has Germany re-entered history, but given that Germany is the leading European power, the history of Europe begins anew again.

This isn’t to say that Germany must follow any particular foreign policy given its new official view on multiculturalism; it can choose many paths. But an attack on multiculturalism is simultaneously an affirmation of German national identity. You can’t have the first without the second. And once that happens, many things become possible.

Consider that Merkel made clear that Germany needed 400,000 trained specialists. Consider also that Germany badly needs workers of all sorts who are not Muslims living in Germany, particularly in view of Germany’s demographic problems. If Germany can’t import workers for social reasons, it can export factories, call centers, medical analysis and IT support desks. Not far to the east is Russia, which has a demographic crisis of its own but nonetheless has spare labor capacity due to its reliance on purely extractive natural resources for its economy. Germany already depends on Russian energy. If it comes to rely on Russian workers, and in turn Russia comes to rely on German investment, then the map of Europe could be redrawn once again and European history restarted at an even greater pace.

Merkel’s statement is therefore of enormous importance on two levels. First, she has said aloud what many leaders already know, which is that multiculturalism can become a national catastrophe. Second, in stating this, she sets in motion other processes that could have a profound impact on not only Germany and Europe but also the global balance of power. It is not clear at this time what her intention is, which may well be to boost her center-right coalition government’s abysmal popularity. But the process that has begun is neither easily contained nor neatly managed. All of Europe, indeed, much of the world, is coping with the struggle between cultures within their borders. But the Germans are different, historically and geographically. When they begin thinking these thoughts, the stakes go up.
Bottomline: This is about far more than immigration and multiculturalism. This is revisiting Organski's power transition theory.
Buddy, you appear to have done all of the leaping. I was being facetious.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6775|Moscow, Russia

Turquoise wrote:

Well, I will agree that Russia seems to have a good education system in most respects, although I would imagine history courses are somewhat selective in their material and perspectives.
and they aren't in other places, right? also, remind me where did i say or remotely implied that my views are based on some "history courses"?

Turquoise wrote:

I don't think Russia's population size is what is holding it back, although I agree that prior military expenditures most likely did.
open a world map, look for countries similar to russia in climate and other geographical traits. then look for their respective population levels and densities. also look where they build their cities. then look at the map russia and you'll see the point i'm trying to make.

Turquoise wrote:

I think America proves that you can have a country with a large population and still have a high standard of living.
when you got the whole bloody world by the balls you can "prove" just about anything.

Turquoise wrote:

The only downsides to our design in this respect are wealth disparity and major differences in cost of living (and wages) throughout the country.
really? downsides? you've been shitting diamonds for the past half a century, man.

Turquoise wrote:

Shahter wrote:

it's totally dependant on an average cost of having someone work for you in a certain place. in russia where winter lasts for six months you'd have to pay ten times as much for energy alone to have any working place set up and running as you would pay for the same working place in china. climate alone makes it so there's almost NO business case for which russia would win over china in manufacturing costs.
Well, if nothing else, GM apparently feels that Russia is a good place for manufacturing.  They just recently built a huge factory there.
gm haven't been known for their outstanding business sence lately, have they?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

Shahter wrote:

and they aren't in other places, right? also, remind me where did i say or remotely implied that my views are based on some "history courses"?
Shahter, it wasn't meant personally.  You are correct that every country does some filtering, but I would think Russia would be one of the countries more blatant about it.

Shahter wrote:

open a world map, look for countries similar to russia in climate and other geographical traits. then look for their respective population levels and densities. also look where they build their cities. then look at the map russia and you'll see the point i'm trying to make.
If you're suggesting geography and climate are part of why Russia struggles, I would agree.  That's not the same thing as saying population size is the reason.

Shahter wrote:

when you got the whole bloody world by the balls you can "prove" just about anything.
eh...  touche.

Shahter wrote:

really? downsides? you've been shitting diamonds for the past half a century, man.
Well, if you ever decide to move here, you'll see more of what I mean.  Living here would seem to be better than in most of the world, but there are still a few drawbacks that are connected to our rather extensive faith in the market.

Shahter wrote:

gm haven't been known for their outstanding business sence lately, have they?
lol...  touche.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6601|132 and Bush

Mekstizzle wrote:

Kmar wrote:

FEOS wrote:


We haven't been a "melting pot" for decades.

We're more of a "tossed salad"...and not in a good way.
Right.. so lets just go ahead and warm up the ovens.
You were only a melting pot when it was the same kind of cheese melting, just different flavours, and the olives were kept separate. If you get what I mean.

So yeah, I can see why Americans think that different ingredients can't melt.
You want to see a melting pot in America? Go down to the county free health care clinic.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6775|Moscow, Russia

Turquoise wrote:

If you're suggesting geography and climate are part of why Russia struggles, I would agree.  That's not the same thing as saying population size is the reason.
really? well, yeah, it's not exactly the same as saying that, but let's look at it in perspective, shall we? what's the difference between canada and russia geographocally and economically, really? how was russia able to sustain its population in soviet times and why it can't now? it can't really be because we all became good for nothing dumbfucks the minute commies stopped looking over us, right?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5358|London, England

Shahter wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

If you're suggesting geography and climate are part of why Russia struggles, I would agree.  That's not the same thing as saying population size is the reason.
really? well, yeah, it's not exactly the same as saying that, but let's look at it in perspective, shall we? what's the difference between canada and russia geographocally and economically, really? how was russia able to sustain its population in soviet times and why it can't now? it can't really be because we all became good for nothing dumbfucks the minute commies stopped looking over us, right?
Because you lost your breadbasket, the Ukraine.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6411|'Murka

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:


it's totally dependant on an average cost of having someone work for you in a certain place. in russia where winter lasts for six months you'd have to pay ten times as much for energy alone to have any working place set up and running as you would pay for the same working place in china. climate alone makes it so there's almost NO business case for which russia would win over china in manufacturing costs.
Go back and re-read the article. The clear implication is that the manufacturing capacity is already there...Germany just needs to leverage the labor pool, which is cheaper than Germany's. Then take into account shipping costs from China as compared to energy costs in Russia...
... and russia would still loose. that article is outright retarded - whoever wrote it doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm willing to bet they have Russian and German analysts working for them who did the background on the article, Shahter. You got much multinational strategy experience to base your analysis on?

Didn't think so.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6411|'Murka

Kmar wrote:

Buddy, you appear to have done all of the leaping. I was being facetious.
I must've missed the [sarcasm] tags, then. My bad.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5358|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Go back and re-read the article. The clear implication is that the manufacturing capacity is already there...Germany just needs to leverage the labor pool, which is cheaper than Germany's. Then take into account shipping costs from China as compared to energy costs in Russia...
... and russia would still loose. that article is outright retarded - whoever wrote it doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm willing to bet they have Russian and German analysts working for them who did the background on the article, Shahter. You got much multinational strategy experience to base your analysis on?

Didn't think so.
I think he's missing the forest for the trees. St Pete and Moscow are expensive. The rest of the country is not. The Germans have been building factories in the Czech Republic for the past decade and a half in order to get around their unions. Since the Czechs are now on the rise, the obvious solution is to keep moving east. There's plenty of poor Russians that would more than welcome labor in a factory. Holy shit, they might be able to afford bread then. And without the government supporting them!
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

If you're suggesting geography and climate are part of why Russia struggles, I would agree.  That's not the same thing as saying population size is the reason.
really? well, yeah, it's not exactly the same as saying that, but let's look at it in perspective, shall we? what's the difference between canada and russia geographocally and economically, really? how was russia able to sustain its population in soviet times and why it can't now? it can't really be because we all became good for nothing dumbfucks the minute commies stopped looking over us, right?
Because you lost your breadbasket, the Ukraine.
Shahter, he's right.  This isn't the only reason for why Russia is in its current situation, but it's certainly one of the biggest reasons.
cl4u53w1t2
Salon-Bolschewist
+269|6473|Kakanien

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

If you're suggesting geography and climate are part of why Russia struggles, I would agree.  That's not the same thing as saying population size is the reason.
really? well, yeah, it's not exactly the same as saying that, but let's look at it in perspective, shall we? what's the difference between canada and russia geographocally and economically, really? how was russia able to sustain its population in soviet times and why it can't now? it can't really be because we all became good for nothing dumbfucks the minute commies stopped looking over us, right?
Because you lost your breadbasket, the Ukraine.
wait, it is supposed to be our breadbasket...
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6775|Moscow, Russia

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Go back and re-read the article. The clear implication is that the manufacturing capacity is already there...Germany just needs to leverage the labor pool, which is cheaper than Germany's. Then take into account shipping costs from China as compared to energy costs in Russia...
... and russia would still loose. that article is outright retarded - whoever wrote it doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm willing to bet they have Russian and German analysts working for them who did the background on the article, Shahter. You got much multinational strategy experience to base your analysis on?

Didn't think so.
i've got much experience working for russian companies, which themselves outsource their jobs to china. i repeat - those who wrote the article do not know what they are talking about.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6775|Moscow, Russia

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

really? well, yeah, it's not exactly the same as saying that, but let's look at it in perspective, shall we? what's the difference between canada and russia geographocally and economically, really? how was russia able to sustain its population in soviet times and why it can't now? it can't really be because we all became good for nothing dumbfucks the minute commies stopped looking over us, right?
Because you lost your breadbasket, the Ukraine.
Shahter, he's right.  This isn't the only reason for why Russia is in its current situation, but it's certainly one of the biggest reasons.
this, gentlemen, is another myth. open the map and see for yourself. ffs, look at what urkaine has become since we "lost" it. russia is in trouble, yeah, but how do you name the situation in which the "breadbasket" ukrain is now then?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6411|'Murka

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:


... and russia would still loose. that article is outright retarded - whoever wrote it doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'm willing to bet they have Russian and German analysts working for them who did the background on the article, Shahter. You got much multinational strategy experience to base your analysis on?

Didn't think so.
i've got much experience working for russian companies, which themselves outsource their jobs to china. i repeat - those who wrote the article do not know what they are talking about.
You clearly haven't a clue about globalization. Just because Russian companies outsource their jobs to China doesn't mean other countries can't/don't outsource their jobs to Russia. It's not like the only place in the world to outsource jobs to is China, ffs. Like I said before, it's all relative to the cost of doing business wherever you are. If it's cheaper for Germany to outsource jobs to Russia than to keep them in Germany and it also increases economic/political ties for other purposes, it makes more sense than to export the jobs to China or anywhere else. You keep looking at this from a single facet. The "clueless" guy (actually several "guys" who are experts on the regions involved) who wrote the article was looking at it from multiple facets. Try it some time.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6106|eXtreme to the maX
Stratfor Lol
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6775|Moscow, Russia

FEOS wrote:

You clearly haven't a clue about globalization.
this is certainly not my area of expertise. however, unlike those who wrote the article, i actually have acces to those who do business in russia and in china and in germany too. it is you sitting on the other side of the globe who has to rely on something like that article to get your info and to "bet they have Russian and German analysts working for them". i don't, i've those people right here around me.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6411|'Murka

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:

You clearly haven't a clue about globalization.
this is certainly not my area of expertise. however, unlike those who wrote the article, i actually have acces to those who do business in russia and in china and in germany too. it is you sitting on the other side of the globe who has to rely on something like that article to get your info and to "bet they have Russian and German analysts working for them". i don't, i've those people right here around me.
And so do they. Only difference is the people they have doing their analysis have more background in strategic power transition theory and other aspects of political science and they study impacts globally.

But I'm sure those people you know who "do business in Russia" probably know more about inter-country politico-economic impacts of decisions than these guys...
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6775|Moscow, Russia

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:

You clearly haven't a clue about globalization.
this is certainly not my area of expertise. however, unlike those who wrote the article, i actually have acces to those who do business in russia and in china and in germany too. it is you sitting on the other side of the globe who has to rely on something like that article to get your info and to "bet they have Russian and German analysts working for them". i don't, i've those people right here around me.
And so do they. Only difference is the people they have doing their analysis have more background in strategic power transition theory and other aspects of political science and they study impacts globally.
yeah, yeah. and i bet it's the same people who were consulting gorbachev's and then yeltsin's teams and whos "expert guidance" led us were we are today.

FEOS wrote:

But I'm sure those people you know who "do business in Russia" probably know more about inter-country politico-economic impacts of decisions than these guys...
yes, i'd definitely put my money on people i know here - simply because thay actually manage to do business, unlike those who "study politico-economic impacts" and speculations.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6411|'Murka

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:


this is certainly not my area of expertise. however, unlike those who wrote the article, i actually have acces to those who do business in russia and in china and in germany too. it is you sitting on the other side of the globe who has to rely on something like that article to get your info and to "bet they have Russian and German analysts working for them". i don't, i've those people right here around me.
And so do they. Only difference is the people they have doing their analysis have more background in strategic power transition theory and other aspects of political science and they study impacts globally.
yeah, yeah. and i bet it's the same people who were consulting gorbachev's and then yeltsin's teams and whos "expert guidance" led us were we are today.

FEOS wrote:

But I'm sure those people you know who "do business in Russia" probably know more about inter-country politico-economic impacts of decisions than these guys...
yes, i'd definitely put my money on people i know here - simply because thay actually manage to do business, unlike those who "study politico-economic impacts" and speculations.
These people "actually manage to do business" as well. You really are a close-minded nationalist at times. Makes debate nigh-on impossible. You do not even consider alternative views...ever.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6775|Moscow, Russia

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:

And so do they. Only difference is the people they have doing their analysis have more background in strategic power transition theory and other aspects of political science and they study impacts globally.
yeah, yeah. and i bet it's the same people who were consulting gorbachev's and then yeltsin's teams and whos "expert guidance" led us were we are today.

FEOS wrote:

But I'm sure those people you know who "do business in Russia" probably know more about inter-country politico-economic impacts of decisions than these guys...
yes, i'd definitely put my money on people i know here - simply because thay actually manage to do business, unlike those who "study politico-economic impacts" and speculations.
These people "actually manage to do business" as well.
not in russia, as they evidently demostrated by their idiotic article.

FEOS wrote:

You really are a close-minded nationalist at times. Makes debate nigh-on impossible. You do not even consider alternative views...ever.
when each and every person who does business here lols at those "alternative views"? - sorry, sherlock, but i'm not going to consider that bullshit.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6411|'Murka

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:


yeah, yeah. and i bet it's the same people who were consulting gorbachev's and then yeltsin's teams and whos "expert guidance" led us were we are today.


yes, i'd definitely put my money on people i know here - simply because thay actually manage to do business, unlike those who "study politico-economic impacts" and speculations.
These people "actually manage to do business" as well.
not in russia, as they evidently demostrated by their idiotic article.

FEOS wrote:

You really are a close-minded nationalist at times. Makes debate nigh-on impossible. You do not even consider alternative views...ever.
when each and every person who does business here lols at those "alternative views"? - sorry, sherlock, but i'm not going to consider that bullshit.
Oh, so you have gotten feedback from every multi-national business in Russia regarding that analysis, have you? My, you work quickly and have amazing connections!
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6775|Moscow, Russia

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:

These people "actually manage to do business" as well.
not in russia, as they evidently demostrated by their idiotic article.

FEOS wrote:

You really are a close-minded nationalist at times. Makes debate nigh-on impossible. You do not even consider alternative views...ever.
when each and every person who does business here lols at those "alternative views"? - sorry, sherlock, but i'm not going to consider that bullshit.
Oh, so you have gotten feedback from every multi-national business in Russia regarding that analysis, have you? My, you work quickly and have amazing connections!
oh, shit. okay, you got me on my lousy english. again. of course i should have put "i asked" in there. anyway, congratulations. >.<
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

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