Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England
The Smoot–Hawley Tariff or Hawley–Smoot Tariff (P.L. 71-361, officially named, the Tariff Act of 1930)[1] was an act signed into law on June 17, 1930, that raised U.S. tariffs on over 20,000 imported goods to record levels.[2]

The overall level tariffs under the Tariff were the second-highest in US history, exceeded only (by a small margin) by the Tariff of 1828[3] and the ensuing retaliatory tariffs by U.S. trading partners reduced American exports and imports by more than half.

Some economists have opined that the tariffs contributed to the severity of the Great Depression.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley

That was then...

This is now...

On Thursday, the U.S. House of Representatives passed the Currency Reform for Fair Trade Act, which aims to crack down on Chinese currency manipulation by targeting imports from China and other countries with currencies that are perceived to be undervalued. With a final tally of 348 to 79, the bill was bi-partisan and passed with ease.

The fact that more than 100 Republicans voted in favor of the bill suggests that no Congressman wants to be on the wrong side of the China issue in advance of the November elections. Imports from China are generally blamed for the loss of American jobs overseas and stubborn high employment in the United States. With jobs now the number one issue on the minds of voters, any measure that promises to reverse job outflow, whatever its merits, is viewed as good politics.

Congressional leaders were quick to try and make political hay out of passage of the bill.

“For so many years, we have watched the China-U.S. trade deficit grow and grow and grow,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi said. “Today, we are finally doing something about it by recognizing that China’s manipulation of the currency represents a subsidy for Chinese exports coming to the United States and elsewhere.”

“I believe in free markets and open competition. I believe that American companies and workers can win under those conditions. But the rules have to be fair—and for years now, it has been clear that China’s currency policy unfairly tilts the field in its direction,” Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said in statement. “By deliberately keeping the value of its Yuan low, China is able to sell products here at an artificially low price. As a result, domestic manufacturers — whose prices would be much more competitive if China allowed the market to set the value of its currency — go out of business. And American workers lose their jobs.”
http://blogs.forbes.com/china/2010/10/0 … gechannels

Yay for making the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over. I love this Congress and this President.

This article is the goods too:
It was recently reported that noted Democratic strategist James Carville urged candidates to hammer Republicans on the issue of trade. This tactic is meant to put Republicans in a tough spot. We're a nation, evidently, that has zero tolerance for Malaysian-made suits sold at reasonable prices.

Now, this might have been tactically advantageous for Dems if so many Republicans hadn't already surrendered to their protectionist political impulses. There's really not much to hammer them on.

It's astonishing how many "free market" candidates I meet who are deeply haunted by mythological ogres who live to "outsource" and "ship jobs overseas" just to screw the Forgotten Man.

It's such a crisis that last week the House passed the Currency Reform for Fair Trade Act — an expansion, I kid you not, of the Depression-instigating Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. Or, more precisely, a de facto tax on the American consumer.

And guess what? Ninety-nine Republicans voted for it.

Rather than open trade with China, India, Colombia or South Korea (the latter recently signing a liberal trade agreement with the European Union), Washington is busy making demands to corrupt trade — demands that typically have more to do with carbon emissions than American prosperity.

If the newly chaste Republican Party believes free markets hold the answers for health care and for the auto industry and for job creation, then why, a skeptic might wonder, do they surrender to the statist position on free trade?

Well, the answer turns out to be rather simple. In a recent poll conducted by the Wall Street Journal, we learn that Americans have bought populist fears on trade. More than 50 percent of those polled claim that free-trade agreements have hurt the U.S.

That number is up from 46 percent three years ago and 32 percent in 1990. The polls found that 90 percent of Republicans agreed that "outsourcing" is one reason for our present economic dilemma.

No matter how many times history proves the protectionists wrong, they come back and scaremonger and demagogue us into believing trade is harmful. And admittedly, there are few more abstract and politically problematic positions to defend.

We're losing manufacturing jobs. Scary stuff. Which candidate is going to explain to the voters that outsourcing has allowed the American workforce to trade up to better jobs, and allows companies to grow their businesses and expand their workforces?

Which candidate is going to point out that manufacturing jobs have declined in the past 20 years because there has been an incredible rise in the productivity of the American worker? The output at U.S. factories was 37 percent higher in 2009 than it was in 1993.

Higher productivity means a higher standard of living for most Americans. Unproductive jobs? We have that covered with the stimulus.

"Our philosophy has to be not how many protectionist measures can we put in place, but how do we invent new things to sell," Rudy Giuliani once explained, near perfectly. "That's the view of the future. What [protectionists] are trying to do is lock in the inadequacies of the past."

Any Republican who votes for tariffs in the midst of a recession is locking in to the inadequacies of the past. And now that Bill Clinton's Democratic Party is no longer around, once the right surrenders on trade, we're going to be in a lot of trouble.
http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_16281435
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina
It's kind of sad when people don't understand that we have to compete for skilled jobs, not the ones that typically go to China.

Comparative advantage is apparently lost on both parties.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
People have their dogmas, like you and you free market dogma, and ignore all current and historical evidence to the contrary.
This is why they repeat the same mistakes over and over.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6324
My guess is, It will be quietly bargained away in implements while attached/buried to other bills and forgotten.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6585|do not disturb

I don't believe in tariffs, even if someone were to argue that someone like China is cheating by devaluing their currency in order to keep a competitive advantage in exports. China can not inflate their currency without consequence. They fail to see that, and they fail to see that it is our purchasing power that ultimately progresses our standard of living more so than everyone working in factories making legacy wages.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

Phrozenbot wrote:

I don't believe in tariffs, even if someone were to argue that someone like China is cheating by devaluing their currency in order to keep a competitive advantage in exports. China can not inflate their currency without consequence. They fail to see that, and they fail to see that it is our purchasing power that ultimately progresses our standard of living more so than everyone working in factories making legacy wages.
Its the US which is devaluing its currency.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6585|do not disturb

Everyone with floating currencies devalue their currency. It is relative though, and China has it as government policy. We do to an extent, I suppose.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

Dilbert_X wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:

I don't believe in tariffs, even if someone were to argue that someone like China is cheating by devaluing their currency in order to keep a competitive advantage in exports. China can not inflate their currency without consequence. They fail to see that, and they fail to see that it is our purchasing power that ultimately progresses our standard of living more so than everyone working in factories making legacy wages.
Its the US which is devaluing its currency.
The difference is that we're doing it out of negligence, whereas China does it as a policy.

Granted, that doesn't really matter, because China has already become a less desirable place to manufacture many things compared to much poorer countries.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Quantitative easing = printing money = devaluing the U$

Its a conscious policy, the US is just blubbing because the Chinese worked it out first.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|5969|The Mitten

JohnG@lt wrote:

I love this Congress and this President.
...Since when did the executive and legislative branches merge?
EE (hats
rdx-fx
...
+955|6561

JohnG@lt wrote:

I love this Congress and this President.

Morpheus wrote:

...Since when did the executive and legislative branches merge?
Since the majority of the current Congress is working cock-in-hand with the current Executive branch.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

rdx-fx wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I love this Congress and this President.

Morpheus wrote:

...Since when did the executive and legislative branches merge?
Since the majority of the current Congress is working cock-in-hand with the current Executive branch.
Like it was with Bush between 2001 and 2006.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6585|do not disturb

Dilbert_X wrote:

Quantitative easing = printing money = devaluing the U$

Its a conscious policy, the US is just blubbing because the Chinese worked it out first.
I'm not in favor of that either, though the intent isn't to deliberately devalue the currency for the sake of exporting. China does it whenever their currency rises in value. It should also be understood that instantly creating new money, in this case credit, doesn't have any effect on the dollar until it enters the money supply. The Fed has certainly created a lot of credit and much of it has not been touched, which explains why inflation isn't as high as it might have been had the government spent all that money or gave it away to everyone to spend.

We should repeal the 17th Amendment and go back to having state legislature elect senators. They are too easily bought now.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
I'm not in favor of that either, though the intent isn't to deliberately devalue the currency for the sake of exporting.
I'm pretty sure it is, it helps exports and suppresses imports.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6381|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I love this Congress and this President.

Morpheus wrote:

...Since when did the executive and legislative branches merge?
Since the majority of the current Congress is working cock-in-hand with the current Executive branch.
Like it was with Bush between 2001 and 2006.
And that worked out so well...(see thread title)
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6585|do not disturb

Dilbert_X wrote:

I'm not in favor of that either, though the intent isn't to deliberately devalue the currency for the sake of exporting.
I'm pretty sure it is, it helps exports and suppresses imports.
We import far more than we export. Exporting isn't simply a currency issue. We also pay our workers significantly more than what other workers could dream to get paid. There is a very strong argument that the auto industry was killed by legacy costs, or at least one of the major reasons.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I love this Congress and this President.
Since the majority of the current Congress is working cock-in-hand with the current Executive branch.
Like it was with Bush between 2001 and 2006.
And that worked out so well...(see thread title)
Hey, no argument here.  I'm just saying that what we're currently experiencing is no worse than what we did between those years.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6381|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


Like it was with Bush between 2001 and 2006.
And that worked out so well...(see thread title)
Hey, no argument here.  I'm just saying that what we're currently experiencing is no worse than what we did between those years.
Politically, that's true. However, the overall consequences are debatably worse now than then.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


Like it was with Bush between 2001 and 2006.
And that worked out so well...(see thread title)
Hey, no argument here.  I'm just saying that what we're currently experiencing is no worse than what we did between those years.
Like I said previously, fucking around on social issues is easily fixable. Monkeying around in the economy has long lasting consequences that will still be felt long after the current crop of Congressmen are worm food. Bush was a hands off president when it came to the economy and it's how it should be. Obama is the economic anti-christ.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|5969|The Mitten

rdx-fx wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I love this Congress and this President.

Morpheus wrote:

...Since when did the executive and legislative branches merge?
Since the majority of the current Congress is working cock-in-hand with the current Executive branch.
Well, perhaps in this case, that phrase works.
But i've just gotten too tired of everyone either blaming/asking/hoping/etc the president to magically fix everything... because, if the president actually had that much power, they'd be complaining he had to much....
EE (hats
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bush was a hands off president when it came to the economy and it's how it should be.
(how do I make that icon bigger?)

Bush was hands-off - apart from tax cuts for the rich and welfare payments to military contractors when he was very hands-on.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-10-10 15:20:46)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bush was a hands off president when it came to the economy and it's how it should be.
(how do I make that icon bigger?)

Bush was hands-off - apart from tax cuts for the rich and welfare payments to military contractors when he was very hands-on.
Ok, whatever you want to believe.

We get it. You hate America and have a special dark hole in your stone heart reserved for Bush. We get it, and we also don't care. You're a broken record who needs to get a new schtick. The guy has been out of office for two years now. Find someone else to hate.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Whatever, your statement is wrong.

Try getting on a plane where the pilot flies hands-off "No worries mates, global karma will guide us to a safe landing."

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-10-10 16:44:28)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6153|Ireland
Unless I missed something these tariffs are targeted at specific countries that are NOT free market and manipulating currency so we can't trade with them unless we want to take it in the pooper.

I think this could be two different things but honestly I am too lazy to read or give a shit.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6561

Dilbert_X wrote:

Whatever, your statement is wrong.

Try getting on a plane where the pilot flies hands-off "No worries mates, global karma will guide us to a safe landing."
Insh-Allah

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