Personally, I'm all for tax increases. Seriously. I've thought about this for a while, and whilst I don't like paying taxes, it seems really obvious when you actually visit places that differ to what you're accustomed to. The UK is a fucking shithole, whereas if you visit places like Norway, Sweden, Denmark and the Netherlands, which have much higher taxes, they seem really nice and organised in comparison. I've come to the conclusion that I'd much rather live in a decent country and have less spending money than live in an utter shithole and have more money.
Well, you brits pay a lot less tax, but you also only get half the pay...
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
High taxes doesn't necessarily mean better services...only need to look at California and New York for examples. You want to pay more taxes, go ahead and pay Uncle Sam more - no one is stopping you.
Its people like you who want to dictate how my hard earned money is taken by the government and spent on your idiotic programs.
Sorry, if I sound brash, but I think you hit a nerve :-P
Its people like you who want to dictate how my hard earned money is taken by the government and spent on your idiotic programs.
Sorry, if I sound brash, but I think you hit a nerve :-P
Harmor, paying higher taxes is patriotic. So piss off if you hate America so much you won't pay for the betterment of the country.
Americans allways start bitching when you mention tax
I do think they have kind of a point though, it's not easy spending taxincome evenly when the population is so differently spread across a large country...
Personally I'm glad that I get what I get here for the tax we pay...
I do think they have kind of a point though, it's not easy spending taxincome evenly when the population is so differently spread across a large country...
Personally I'm glad that I get what I get here for the tax we pay...
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
But I'm not looking at US states, I'm looking at nation states. US states seem to fuck up every example possible, no matter what you're talking about. If you look at different countries, ones with higher taxes are generally speaking far better places to live than ones with lower taxes. I have no idea if there are figures to support this, but I'm sure if you talked to people who have visited these places they'd agree.Harmor wrote:
High taxes doesn't necessarily mean better services...only need to look at California and New York for examples. You want to pay more taxes, go ahead and pay Uncle Sam more - no one is stopping you.
Its people like you who want to dictate how my hard earned money is taken by the government and spent on your idiotic programs.
Sorry, if I sound brash, but I think you hit a nerve :-P
I think you've been drinking too much of Joe Biden's Koolaid.AussieReaper wrote:
Harmor, paying higher taxes is patriotic. So piss off if you hate America so much you won't pay for the betterment of the country.
I would like to see if you could find stats that show Higher rates in taxes mean a better Standard of living.ghettoperson wrote:
But I'm not looking at US states, I'm looking at nation states. US states seem to fuck up every example possible, no matter what you're talking about. If you look at different countries, ones with higher taxes are generally speaking far better places to live than ones with lower taxes. I have no idea if there are figures to support this, but I'm sure if you talked to people who have visited these places they'd agree.Harmor wrote:
High taxes doesn't necessarily mean better services...only need to look at California and New York for examples. You want to pay more taxes, go ahead and pay Uncle Sam more - no one is stopping you.
Its people like you who want to dictate how my hard earned money is taken by the government and spent on your idiotic programs.
Sorry, if I sound brash, but I think you hit a nerve :-P
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the United States is in the top 10:
1. Norway (=)
2. Iceland (↑ 5)
3. Australia (=)
4. Luxembourg (↑ 11)
5. Canada (↓ 1)
6. Sweden (↓ 4)
7. Switzerland (↑ 4)
8. Ireland (↑ 2)
9. Belgium (↓ 3)
10. United States (↓ 2)
11. Japan (↓ 2)
12. Netherlands (↓ 7)
13. Finland (=)
14. Denmark (↑ 3)
15. United Kingdom (↓ 3)
16. France (=)
17. Austria (↓ 3)
18. Italy (↑ 3)
19. New Zealand (↓ 1)
20. Germany (↓ 1)
21. Spain (↓ 1)
22. Hong Kong (↑ 1)
23. Israel (↓ 1)
24. Greece (=)
25. Singapore (=)
26. Slovenia (↑ 1)
27. Portugal (↓ 1)
28. South Korea (=)
29. Cyprus (↑ 1)
30. Barbados (↓ 1)
Source: http://skeptically.org/economics/id21.html
How the hell did Iceland go to #2 in that list? Didn't they just have a financial meltdown last year?
Last edited by Harmor (2010-10-01 19:09:19)
yeah Russia bailed them out... they are part of the new Soviet Union lol but yea they sure did recover fast lolHarmor wrote:
I would like to see if you could find stats that show Higher rates in taxes mean a better Standard of livingghettoperson wrote:
But I'm not looking at US states, I'm looking at nation states. US states seem to fuck up every example possible, no matter what you're talking about. If you look at different countries, ones with higher taxes are generally speaking far better places to live than ones with lower taxes. I have no idea if there are figures to support this, but I'm sure if you talked to people who have visited these places they'd agree.Harmor wrote:
High taxes doesn't necessarily mean better services...only need to look at California and New York for examples. You want to pay more taxes, go ahead and pay Uncle Sam more - no one is stopping you.
Its people like you who want to dictate how my hard earned money is taken by the government and spent on your idiotic programs.
Sorry, if I sound brash, but I think you hit a nerve :-P
How the hell did Iceland go to #2 in that list? Didn't they just have a financial meltdown last year?
There are countries in that list that have higher taxes yet a lower standard of living than the United States so the theory that paying higher taxes translates to a higher standard of living is at least disproven from the source above.
Unless you are only going by your own personal experience/bias is there anything else you can show to back up your theory?
Unless you are only going by your own personal experience/bias is there anything else you can show to back up your theory?
well as I recall reading, they said certain U.S. states would do far better if they were to secede from U.S., all those states would prob. be in top 10...
Last edited by blademaster (2010-10-01 19:43:39)
If Obama keeps up his shit you may get your wish.blademaster wrote:
well as I recall reading, they said certain U.S. would do far better if they were to secede from U.S., all those states would prob. be in top 10...
Speaking of taxes there's an iPhone app to track your taxes. Or you can just use this website:
http://www.whatwepayfor.com/
http://www.whatwepayfor.com/
The thing is though, having been to the majority of countries of that list, I don't necessarily agree with that order. For instance, in terms of places I'd want to live I'd put Germany well above the UK and frankly I'd say whilst the UK may by definition a high standard of living, I wouldn't say that it was a better place to live than a lot of places. I don't know, I guess this may be a very subjective thing, but I'd hope some people who have actually visited these places could provide some feedback on whether or not they agree with me.Harmor wrote:
I would like to see if you could find stats that show Higher rates in taxes mean a better Standard of living.ghettoperson wrote:
But I'm not looking at US states, I'm looking at nation states. US states seem to fuck up every example possible, no matter what you're talking about. If you look at different countries, ones with higher taxes are generally speaking far better places to live than ones with lower taxes. I have no idea if there are figures to support this, but I'm sure if you talked to people who have visited these places they'd agree.Harmor wrote:
High taxes doesn't necessarily mean better services...only need to look at California and New York for examples. You want to pay more taxes, go ahead and pay Uncle Sam more - no one is stopping you.
Its people like you who want to dictate how my hard earned money is taken by the government and spent on your idiotic programs.
Sorry, if I sound brash, but I think you hit a nerve :-P
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the United States is in the top 10:
1. Norway (
2. Iceland (↑ 5)
3. Australia (
4. Luxembourg (↑ 11)
5. Canada (↓ 1)
6. Sweden (↓ 4)
7. Switzerland (↑ 4)
8. Ireland (↑ 2)
9. Belgium (↓ 3)
10. United States (↓ 2)
11. Japan (↓ 2)
12. Netherlands (↓ 7)
13. Finland (
14. Denmark (↑ 3)
15. United Kingdom (↓ 3)
16. France (
17. Austria (↓ 3)
18. Italy (↑ 3)
19. New Zealand (↓ 1)
20. Germany (↓ 1)
21. Spain (↓ 1)
22. Hong Kong (↑ 1)
23. Israel (↓ 1)
24. Greece (
25. Singapore (
26. Slovenia (↑ 1)
27. Portugal (↓ 1)
28. South Korea (
29. Cyprus (↑ 1)
30. Barbados (↓ 1)
Source: http://skeptically.org/economics/id21.html
How the hell did Iceland go to #2 in that list? Didn't they just have a financial meltdown last year?
I would argue it's less about amount of taxes and more about effectiveness of expenditure of said taxes. Our government is woefully ineffective in spending the revenue it gets in taxation. Thus, it is highly inefficient, as well. That requires increases in taxes to keep pace. Without spending reform--not just cuts, but true reform on the process of government spending--it will continue to be a self-feeding cycle.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
- Superior Mind
- (not macbeth)
- +1,755|6685
From that list, I've only been to Canada and of course, the US. The Canadian life style seems more laid back and stress free; however, the quality of certain facilities and public services seems sub par compared with those in the United States.ghettoperson wrote:
The thing is though, having been to the majority of countries of that list, I don't necessarily agree with that order. For instance, in terms of places I'd want to live I'd put Germany well above the UK and frankly I'd say whilst the UK may by definition a high standard of living, I wouldn't say that it was a better place to live than a lot of places. I don't know, I guess this may be a very subjective thing, but I'd hope some people who have actually visited these places could provide some feedback on whether or not they agree with me.Harmor wrote:
I would like to see if you could find stats that show Higher rates in taxes mean a better Standard of living.ghettoperson wrote:
But I'm not looking at US states, I'm looking at nation states. US states seem to fuck up every example possible, no matter what you're talking about. If you look at different countries, ones with higher taxes are generally speaking far better places to live than ones with lower taxes. I have no idea if there are figures to support this, but I'm sure if you talked to people who have visited these places they'd agree.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the United States is in the top 10:
1. Norway (
2. Iceland (↑ 5)
3. Australia (
4. Luxembourg (↑ 11)
5. Canada (↓ 1)
6. Sweden (↓ 4)
7. Switzerland (↑ 4)
8. Ireland (↑ 2)
9. Belgium (↓ 3)
10. United States (↓ 2)
11. Japan (↓ 2)
12. Netherlands (↓ 7)
13. Finland (
14. Denmark (↑ 3)
15. United Kingdom (↓ 3)
16. France (
17. Austria (↓ 3)
18. Italy (↑ 3)
19. New Zealand (↓ 1)
20. Germany (↓ 1)
21. Spain (↓ 1)
22. Hong Kong (↑ 1)
23. Israel (↓ 1)
24. Greece (
25. Singapore (
26. Slovenia (↑ 1)
27. Portugal (↓ 1)
28. South Korea (
29. Cyprus (↑ 1)
30. Barbados (↓ 1)
Source: http://skeptically.org/economics/id21.html
How the hell did Iceland go to #2 in that list? Didn't they just have a financial meltdown last year?
It's pretty easy to advocate higher taxes when you don't really pay them yourself...
When I work I pay taxes. Admittedly not a lot, but it's still money. I will pay taxes once I graduate. My parents pay a shitload of tax.
Anyway Jord, as a benefit scrounging free-loader I'd expect you to be all in favour of higher taxes.
Anyway Jord, as a benefit scrounging free-loader I'd expect you to be all in favour of higher taxes.
I'm not on benefits or any kind of welfare, so with that debunked let's move on to a more civil debate if you can manage that at all.ghettoperson wrote:
When I work I pay taxes. Admittedly not a lot, but it's still money. I will pay taxes once I graduate. My parents pay a shitload of tax.
Anyway Jord, as a benefit scrounging free-loader I'd expect you to be all in favour of higher taxes.
I think we need to use the current tax money more efficiently first. Millions, in fact Billions is squandered every year. Before we start taxing people signifciantly more as you propose we need to cut foriegn aid to real "shit holes". You think the UK is bad, it isn't compared to the places we send 10 billion dollars a year to. I mean have you got any specifics regarding numbers, or do you just want an arbitrary high percentage tax system for the sake of it?
If I do want more money I'm not going to complain to the government to lower my taxes, I'm gonna try and get a better job or get promoted or something proper like that.
The idea of taxes has never really bothered me. You strive to earn the paycheck you want.
The idea of taxes has never really bothered me. You strive to earn the paycheck you want.
The percentage that is taken out of your wage doesn't bother you? The percentage that is taken out when you inherit money your dead relative has worked for doesn't bother you? What that money is spent/wasted on doesn't bother you?Mekstizzle wrote:
If I do want more money I'm not going to complain to the government to lower my taxes, I'm gonna try and get a better job or get promoted or something proper like that.
The idea of taxes has never really bothered me. You strive to earn the paycheck you want.
Either pancake bunny or true apathy.
No, because if it did all that meant is that I wanted (or 'needed') more money. So that means I want/need a better salary. I can't really complain about inheritance being taxed, it's all just a bonus after the grief of losing a relative anyway, I can't see myself getting all worked up over amounts of money in situations like that.jord wrote:
The percentage that is taken out of your wage doesn't bother you? The percentage that is taken out when you inherit money your dead relative has worked for doesn't bother you? What that money is spent/wasted on doesn't bother you?Mekstizzle wrote:
If I do want more money I'm not going to complain to the government to lower my taxes, I'm gonna try and get a better job or get promoted or something proper like that.
The idea of taxes has never really bothered me. You strive to earn the paycheck you want.
Either pancake bunny or true apathy.
What the money is spent on or wasted is a different thing from just wanting lower taxes for the sake of wanting more money. Just because I don't care about taxes much doesn't mean I don't care about how it's spent. Infact for most people it's the other way round, they don't give a shit about how the money is spent but they always give a shit about how much money they're losing via tax.
Get a fucking better job if you really want more money.
Ok yeah I should probably clarify. I'm strictly talking about income tax here. I think the inheritance tax is a utter bitch and I don't agree with it.jord wrote:
The percentage that is taken out of your wage doesn't bother you? The percentage that is taken out when you inherit money your dead relative has worked for doesn't bother you? What that money is spent/wasted on doesn't bother you?Mekstizzle wrote:
If I do want more money I'm not going to complain to the government to lower my taxes, I'm gonna try and get a better job or get promoted or something proper like that.
The idea of taxes has never really bothered me. You strive to earn the paycheck you want.
Either pancake bunny or true apathy.
As for your previous post, I agree, it should be used more efficiently. For instance, the majority of countries on that list, for example, aren't involved in gigantically costly wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which obviously takes up a lot of money.
And for the Americans, I don't see this as being some crazy Euro-socialist thing. I couldn't give a shit about homeless people, or rehab for drug addicts - but not having them begging me for money or mugging me makes my life, and everyone else's, better. It's not about benefiting the poor and people who don't want to get jobs, it's about making society a nicer place to live.
Enough with the fucking "costly wars" bullshit. Even without that (which is a drop in the federal expenditure bucket, btw), the various and sundry ways in which our government wastes tax dollars is truly mind-boggling.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
I think we should pull of our Afganistan too, that's a fucking drain as well.ghettoperson wrote:
Ok yeah I should probably clarify. I'm strictly talking about income tax here. I think the inheritance tax is a utter bitch and I don't agree with it.jord wrote:
The percentage that is taken out of your wage doesn't bother you? The percentage that is taken out when you inherit money your dead relative has worked for doesn't bother you? What that money is spent/wasted on doesn't bother you?Mekstizzle wrote:
If I do want more money I'm not going to complain to the government to lower my taxes, I'm gonna try and get a better job or get promoted or something proper like that.
The idea of taxes has never really bothered me. You strive to earn the paycheck you want.
Either pancake bunny or true apathy.
As for your previous post, I agree, it should be used more efficiently. For instance, the majority of countries on that list, for example, aren't involved in gigantically costly wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which obviously takes up a lot of money.
And for the Americans, I don't see this as being some crazy Euro-socialist thing. I couldn't give a shit about homeless people, or rehab for drug addicts - but not having them begging me for money or mugging me makes my life, and everyone else's, better. It's not about benefiting the poor and people who don't want to get jobs, it's about making society a nicer place to live.
As for those things you've mentioned, I agree... Welfare does lower aggrevated crimes significantly. It does pose a question though Ghetto, why would we need to raise taxes to have such things? The amount given out in welfare and such is already sufficient, surely just reducing waste and increasing efficiency in Government spending would take care of it moreso than the level we're at now.
If there's one thing American libertarians are good at its arguing against taxes, yet none are to be seen here.