Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5642|London, England
Just as the government is trying to prevent people from investing in anything other than T-Bills by raising taxes  on taxable interest and dividends to confiscatory levels, it's also trying to prevent you from parking your wealth in assets, like gold, that compete with the paper dollars issued by the Federal Reserve and the Treasury. A press release from Rep. Anthony Weiner, Democrat of New York, not yet (as of this instant) posted on Mr. Weiner's Web site, announces that a September 23 hearing of the Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection (a subcommittee of Rep. Henry Waxman's Commerce Committee) will focus on "legislation that would regulate gold-selling companies, an industry who's [sic] relentless advertising is now staple of cable television."

From the press release: "Under Rep. Weiner's bill, companies like Goldline would be required to disclose the reasonable resale value of items being sold." That's great. Are Mr. Weiner and Chairman Bernanke also going to agree to print on every dollar the reasonable expectation that its value will be eroded by inflation?

Gold investors (or speculators) are already punished by the federal government by having their investment, even in a gold exchange-traded-fund, taxed at the higher rates that apply to collectibles rather than long term capital gains.

Not to mention the fact that Mr. Weiner's regulatory push seems as much aimed at conservative journalists as at the gold-dealers. The press release says, "Goldline employs several conservative pundits to act as shills for its' [sic] precious metal business, including Glenn Beck, Mike Huckabee, Laura Ingraham, and Fred Thompson. By drumming up public fears during financially uncertain times, conservative pundits are able to drive a false narrative. Glenn Beck for example has dedicated entire segments of his program to explaining why the U.S. money supply is destined for hyperinflation with Barack Obama as president."

Imagine the uproar if a Republican-majority Congress started investigating and having a regulatory crackdown on big advertisers in liberal outlets such as the New York Times. The First Amendment freedom-of-the-press crowd would be marching in the streets.

The whole situation is amazing. If Mr. Weiner really wants to calm fears about hyperinflation, the last way to do it is to have a government hearing cracking down on the people warning of it.

The press release reports that "invitations to the hearing have been sent to the representatives of Goldline International, the Federal Trade Commission, the Consumers Union and other potential witnesses, including former Goldline employees." Mr. Weiner might also consider calling John Paulson and George Soros, who have also reportedly been buying gold lately, though Mr. Soros was also quoted as calling it a bubble. But Mr. Paulson saw the housing bubble coming so he might be right about the inflation risks, and Mr. Soros is a big funder of left-wing causes, so neither of them would fit with the objective of the hearing.

Anyway, we are looking forward to the hearing, which should be quite a show.
http://www.futureofcapitalism.com/2010/ … ld-hearing

Weiner is actually my representative .

This pretty much goes hand in hand with this op-ed by Thomas Frank a few months back...
These are polarized times, but one thing everyone agrees on is that it sure is great when government makes a profit.

Supporters of President Obama like to point to recent TARP-loan payoffs, plus interest, as an example of federal success. His opponents, by and large, have long held that government should be run like a business; their former leader, George W. Bush, once announced that "government should be market-based."

It is a terrible idea. Were the government actually to begin understanding itself as a market-based, profit-maximizing enterprise, determined to bring down the deficit by whatever means present themselves, can there be any doubt what it would do?

It would sell gold. Oh, it would sell lots of gold. It would put Fort Knox on eBay. Mr. Obama could film the TV commercials.

The first reason for this is obvious: The price of gold is over $1,100 per ounce, near its all-time high in nominal dollars. At that price, the Treasury's 261 million of ounces of gold would be worth nearly $300 billion. Meanwhile, the government's enormous hoard of the stuff is valued by the Treasury—according to a Web page entitled, "Fun Facts About the United States Mint"—at only $42.22 per ounce. If they're saving it for a rainy day, that day has arrived.

I know what you're thinking: Stupid liberal, if the Treasury started unloading its gold—if it gave even the merest hint of doing so—it would send the price of that commodity plummeting.

Which brings us to reason two. The other day, as I watched the zillionth commercial for gold investments flicker by on Fox News, I thought to myself: What would happen to the American right if the price of gold suddenly tanked?

As anyone knows who has Googled the phrase, "FDR Gold Confiscation," gold has long been the obsessive investment choice of a certain species of antigovernment crank. Its allure is especially strong for the disaster cohort—for those who believe that hyperinflation is just around the corner; that default by the U.S. government is a real possibility; and that democracy itself is something of a fraud, a populist Ponzi scheme pulled off by slimy politicians and the central bankers they've hired to run the printing presses.

One reason gold has been bid to its current stratospheric heights is because more and more investors and fund managers have signed on to this dark belief that America's judgment day has finally come.

Were the administration to get started on the great gold dump, however, we'd come to a different judgment day very quickly. When the massively inflated price of that metal collapsed, it would probably take with it a hefty chunk of the portfolios of tea-party types, survivalists, Birchers, dittoheads, Objectivists and almost every imaginable species of secular end-timer.

Achieving such an effect might not even require selling the gold, either: The government could conceivably collapse the price merely by implying that it intended to sell the stuff.

Of course, it is an article of my corny liberal faith that government should never craft policy merely in order to damage its partisan opponents. But if you believe that government should be run like a business, then this, too, becomes thinkable. It was the supremely market-minded men of Republican Washington, after all, who made "Defund the Left" into one of their movement's guiding principles. It was they who dreamed up the "K Street Project" and the other schemes that were designed to reward GOP loyalists and redirect the revenue streams of the Democratic Party.

If it's all about profit, why not take a page from that playbook? Besides, the right already believes Mr. Obama to be an unholy amalgam of Machiavelli, Pol Pot, and Bathhouse John Coughlin, guilty of the worst deviltry Chicago has to offer. Why not serve a little up?

Just for fun, the administration could then smooth the whole thing over with some tactical libertarian cant. It might declare that the price of gold had been propped up artificially for decades by the state's irrational hoarding. Privatization is a far better option, administration officials might purr. It lets the market speak.

And so, in an irony worthy of Oscar Wilde, it would be the gold-investing contingent of the right who would discover that they had risked their fortunes on the whim of the very government they distrust and despise.

But it is the opposite irony that probably ensures that a great gold-dump will not take place. In addition to denting the holdings of countless extremists, such a move would also deal a massive blow to the hedge funds that have reportedly made enormous bets on the barbaric metal. Their losses would then reverberate through the financial system, inevitably shaking the institutions deemed "too big to fail." And before long, government would have to ride to the rescue of those who have wagered so much on the government's collapse.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 … 96744.html

Interesting. So in the spirit of DST, do you think gold is a solid investment? What do you think about gold 'speculation'?

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-09-16 12:02:22)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6689|North Carolina
Gold is probably more solid than many other things (including real estate in a lot of markets), but I'm not sure if it would be the commodity I would pick.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

Gold is money in my opinion, but since it isn't legal tender, it does make a good investment for a store of wealth and crisis (or uncertainty) hedge, with mixed results as an inflation hedge. The bubble accusations are with little merit in my opinion. Sure, we've seen a number of bubbles in the past decade, so now people aren't quite oblivious to them, but I don't see how gold is in a bubble. Maybe someday, as anything can develop into a bubble if there is a mania for it (tulip mania?).

So here is my reasoning as to why I feel gold is not in a bubble:

*Gold is labeled a barbarous relic of the past because those who are so indoctrinated by Keynesianism and statism are constantly reminded by gold how it is the best currency in a free market. They want it to be buried. It is unsurprising to see governments hinder the ability of the people to own, purchase, or sell gold.

*It is not universally felt as a legitimate bull market. Housing and tech were bubbles because of the mania they each had. There were few bears except the occasional skeptic who clearly went against the grain. I know some people here don't like Peter Schiff, but he was very bearish on housing very early on and was literally mocked for being a bear. Just an example.

*The previous bubbles were government fueled. Low interest rates, inflation, and regulation that encouraged speculation directly or indirectly into a market, often from unseen consequence of bad regulation, were essentially the only way to create some of these bubbles. Without the government's sovereign hand, it is doubtful we would be discussing the housing bubble and the like.

*Gold may be more mainstream than it was 5 or 10 years ago, but it is still not the focal of investment. I simply don't see the mania, the "going gaga for housing" in Time's magazine craze, where everyone is simply buying every ounce of gold they can find. Gold is fundamentally strong compared to other investments. If gold tanks, everything else will too.

Gold is somewhat of the canary in the coal mine. It has been labeled a inflation, crisis, or fear hedge, but I think it is more complicated that that. It is not necessarily the best hedge against inflation in my opinion, and in times of fear or crisis like in 08, gold was being heavily sold. It has recovered and made new highs, yes, but I think it speaks more about the faith in government. The less faith in government, the more faith in gold.

How long can the United States run a growing ,massive deficit before the world actually takes severe action and abandons the dollar? They have in some sense, however the dollar has been stable relative to other floating currencies looking at the FOREX USD value for some time now...

I have a question. Why can't we audit the fed, including gold reserves? The last audit was in the 50's I believe. Either nothing much has happened since then, or we are just supposed to believe blindly that all the gold is still there? Waxman should be hounding the fed, not people who want to own gold. The bigger picture, however, is not always obvious.

oh yea and Goldline has a A+ rating from the BBB :b

Last edited by Phrozenbot (2010-09-17 06:22:13)

Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6833|San Diego, CA, USA
I hope they don't ban the purchasing of Gold Coins or try to confiscate them again.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5642|London, England

Harmor wrote:

I hope they don't ban the purchasing of Gold Coins or try to confiscate them again.
Most of the gold coins sold on tv are a scam
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

Proof?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5642|London, England

Phrozenbot wrote:

Proof?
Well, not so much a scam as not a good investment. If you do the math between the amount of gold plating on the coin and the price of gold as commodity you're overpaying by quite a bit. The gold on those coins is so thin that I bet you could scratch through it with your fingernail.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001
time to invest in asian stock exchanges. +1 for asia lulz
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

Gold plating? Are you talking about those collectible coins with the limited gold edition stuff you sometimes see? I would say they are never a good investment.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5642|London, England

Phrozenbot wrote:

Gold plating? Are you talking about those collectible coins with the limited gold edition stuff you sometimes see? I would say they are never a good investment.
Yes. Those commercials are all over tv every night. Maybe it's because I live so close to 'the New York Mint which sells Liberian currency'.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

Then you have cash 4 gold. That is a scam. You will actually get more money selling your gold at a pawn shop than to them by quite a bit. They are just taking advantage of people who never figured or bothered to go to the local pawn shop I guess. Otherwise, everything is fairly legit. Gold is difficult replicate in weight, so buying a fake 1 ounce Canadian maple leaf (they are nice coins and I prefer them) that had a lead core could be easy to spot if you weighed it. Old, rare coins on the other hand sometimes have fakes floating around but I don't bother with them.
jord
Member
+2,382|6962|The North, beyond the wall.
I have some Gold you may purchase.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

I buy local so the next time you're in Big Sky we can discuss it over dinner.
jord
Member
+2,382|6962|The North, beyond the wall.
I don't know what Big sky is a referance to but I have a lovely Jesus on a cross in solid gold you may enjoy.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5642|London, England

jord wrote:

I don't know what Big sky is a referance to but I have a lovely Jesus on a cross in solid gold you may enjoy.
Montana
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

Where did you get that? Jesus shouldn't be jewelry. Anyone crucified would agree.
jord
Member
+2,382|6962|The North, beyond the wall.
Montana, well I do have some inclination to see much of the US. Montana isn't up there though...

I didn't get it, my Mother wants to sell it.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

JG, I'm assuming from previous posts you own physical gold yes? Do you also own mining shares of any sort?

Last edited by Phrozenbot (2010-09-17 08:59:56)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5642|London, England

Phrozenbot wrote:

JG, I'm assuming from previous posts you own physical gold yes? Do you also own mining shares of any sort?
Nope. Nada. I don't think the economy is going to collapse to the point that gold is necessary
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001
everything i own is gold played bitches
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

JohnG@lt wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:

JG, I'm assuming from previous posts you own physical gold yes? Do you also own mining shares of any sort?
Nope. Nada. I don't think the economy is going to collapse to the point that gold is necessary
Not even an ounce of it? It's really pretty, but someday I'll have to sell mine.

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