BF2S Forums Smoking

Political lobbying everywhere.

I can't think of another reason for it to still remain legal, considering that it has no benefits and costs the society a shitload in tax money. Although the tax money gained from cigarettes is a huge source of income for a country, it doesn't cover the costs.

After smoking was banned indoors in Finland, the country has lost afaik over 100 million € in tax income from (there are only 5 mln. people here and the cigarette tax pot was 600 mln before), but the costs from the effects of smoking remain at an estimated 1,5-2 billion € (this includes everything from a shorter lifespan to cigarette breaks and littering of cigarette butts).

So yeah, political lobbying. As for smoking in Europe, also Columbus.

I've smoked since 1994.

DonFck wrote:

Political lobbying everywhere.

I can't think of another reason for it to still remain legal, considering that it has no benefits and costs the society a shitload in tax money. Although the tax money gained from cigarettes is a huge source of income for a country, it doesn't cover the costs.

After smoking was banned indoors in Finland, the country has lost afaik over 100 million € in tax income from (there are only 5 mln. people here and the cigarette tax pot was 600 mln before), but the costs from the effects of smoking remain at an estimated 1,5-2 billion € (this includes everything from a shorter lifespan to cigarette breaks and littering of cigarette butts).

So yeah, political lobbying. As for smoking in Europe, also Columbus.

I've smoked since 1994.

That's only for countries with socialized healthcare.

alcohol is harmful and yet it isn't banned. it's more about personal choice then anything else and yes all smokers know that shit is bad for them but they don't give a fuck.

FEOS wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

So I saw an ad on TV that said smoking...or addiction to smoking was a medical condition.  So, if it is so harmful, why is it legal?  And yes if you give me the personal choice answer, then why can't I insulate my home with asbestos and use lead paint?

You know that everything that's bad for you in our society eventually becomes a "medical condition" of one sort or another. That removes personal responsibility from the equation.

Genes are not your destiny.

I guess because its been in our culture for centuries, only recently discovered to be moderately harmful and the govt can keep a bit of a lid on it by taxation and make money in the process.

11 Bravo wrote:

So I saw an ad on TV that said smoking...or addiction to smoking was a medical condition.  So, if it is so harmful, why is it legal?  And yes if you give me the personal choice answer, then why can't I insulate my home with asbestos and use lead paint?

You drink alcohol right?

Dilbert_X wrote:

I guess because its been in our culture for centuries, only recently discovered to be moderately harmful and the govt can keep a bit of a lid on it by taxation and make money in the process.

so were opiates up until about 100 years ago.

what's the difference? both are harmful. both are medically addictive and cause personality/physical harm.

?!?

11 Bravo wrote:

.Sup wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

So I saw an ad on TV that said smoking...or addiction to smoking was a medical condition.  So, if it is so harmful, why is it legal?  And yes if you give me the personal choice answer, then why can't I insulate my home with asbestos and use lead paint?

You drink alcohol right?

god you are stupid.   please go away.

And you're retarded if you don't know what I mean. Alcohol is harmful to your health and so are cigarettes with the exception that alcohol is legal.

I'm waiting for the day when someone figures out that corn syrup is bad for you.
Probably something along the lines of 'acts like a sugar in the body, but partially bypasses the body's regular sugar handling mechanisms'. Or as an indirect precursor to cancer, through fatty tissue hormone generation combined with cancer's sugar-dependent initial metabolism to generate vascular tissue.
You can only drink about 6oz of real Coke made with sugar, but you can down a 64oz American Coke without getting that semi-nauseated 'too much sugar' feeling;  Corn syrup in the American colas - same calories as the sugared one, but your body doesn't react to it as sugar.

[sarcasm]
But, meh, what's a little cancer, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, and premature puberty..  we save $0.20 a pound by not paying the US tarriff on Sugar and the consumer can consume 8x more of our product without being full! it's a win-win for the manufacturer!
[/sarcasm]


Here in the USA, we have corn syrup in every-damn-thing.
We have it added into molasses, a byproduct of sugar processing.
We have it added into caramel, which is pure sugar cooked down.

The Fucking Dumb Asses (FDA) want to make Cheerios and Tea controlled substances, as they have 'medicinal properties'.
But not tobacco, alcohol, corn syrup, or the latest pharmaceutical heavily advertised on TV (which will have a corresponding ambulance chaser lawyer advertisement on TV 6 months from now);

"Has your liver spontaneously exploded?  Have you shit out your kidneys? Do you have anal seepage? Has your dog spontaneously combusted?  You or your loved one turned into a ravenous Zombie with an insatiable hunger for human nervous tissue? Murdered everyone at your 20th high-school reunion while sleep-walking? Then you may be entitled to financial compensation.  All of the above symptoms have been linked to MegaPharmaCorp's prescription drug Fuckitol, originally proscribed to give you healthier looking toenails.  Call now"

TL/DR version:  Why aren't harmful things banned here?  Look at flouride in the water - banned in Japan and Europe for the nuclear waste byproduct that it is, we still use it because the FDA is functionally useless, and our senate is  bought and paid for with lobbyist funds.

rdx-fx wrote:

I'm waiting for the day when someone figures out that corn syrup is bad for you.
Probably something along the lines of 'acts like a sugar in the body, but partially bypasses the body's regular sugar handling mechanisms'. Or as an indirect precursor to cancer, through fatty tissue hormone generation combined with cancer's sugar-dependent initial metabolism to generate vascular tissue.
You can only drink about 6oz of real Coke made with sugar, but you can down a 64oz American Coke without getting that semi-nauseated 'too much sugar' feeling;  Corn syrup in the American colas - same calories as the sugared one, but your body doesn't react to it as sugar.

[sarcasm]
But, meh, what's a little cancer, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, and premature puberty..  we save $0.20 a pound by not paying the US tarriff on Sugar and the consumer can consume 8x more of our product without being full! it's a win-win for the manufacturer!
[/sarcasm]


Here in the USA, we have corn syrup in every-damn-thing.
We have it added into molasses, a byproduct of sugar processing.
We have it added into caramel, which is pure sugar cooked down.

The Fucking Dumb Asses (FDA) want to make Cheerios and Tea controlled substances, as they have 'medicinal properties'.
But not tobacco, alcohol, corn syrup, or the latest pharmaceutical heavily advertised on TV (which will have a corresponding ambulance chaser lawyer advertisement on TV 6 months from now);

"Has your liver spontaneously exploded?  Have you shit out your kidneys? Do you have anal seepage? Has your dog spontaneously combusted?  You or your loved one turned into a ravenous Zombie with an insatiable hunger for human nervous tissue? Murdered everyone at your 20th high-school reunion while sleep-walking? Then you may be entitled to financial compensation.  All of the above symptoms have been linked to MegaPharmaCorp's prescription drug Fuckitol, originally proscribed to give you healthier looking toenails.  Call now"

TL/DR version:  Why aren't harmful things banned here?  Look at flouride in the water - banned in Japan and Europe for the nuclear waste byproduct that it is, we still use it because the FDA is functionally useless, and our senate is  bought and paid for with lobbyist funds.

Flouride helps preserve your teeth.  You'd have to consume a ridiculous amount of tap water for the flouride content to hurt you.

HFCS, on the other hand, is in everything because of agribusiness lobbies.  We subsidize the hell out of corn, so using HFCS is cheaper than using sugar cane.

Normally, cane would be cheaper (and it's actually less harmful).

smoking is only legal because there's an entire industry built around it and it's socially accepted.

If anything they'll try to slowly phase it out. It's been banned from clubs / pubs here since about two years ago, no doubt they'll raise tax on it a couple times and make a fuss with health insurance and all that.

rdx-fx wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Flouride helps preserve your teeth.  You'd have to consume a ridiculous amount of tap water for the flouride content to hurt you.

HFCS, on the other hand, is in everything because of agribusiness lobbies.  We subsidize the hell out of corn, so using HFCS is cheaper than using sugar cane.

Normally, cane would be cheaper (and it's actually less harmful).

Fluorine is a waste product of Uranium enrichment. Uranium hexaflouride.
Fluorine isn't necessary for dental hygene, and is actually bad for bone formation, especially in children.
Fluorine is chemically similar to Chlorine, with the same bonding structure but different bond strength.
(it acts like a more energetic Chlorine)
It gets into the metabolic pathways as Chlorine, but because of the different bond energies, it really screws up the finely tuned metabolic 'energy dance' it gets into. Screws up bone formation, screws up marrow, screws up cell wall function, screws up nervous function, screws up anything involving salt (NaCl) or Calcium really.  Which includes most of our key metabolic and nervous functions.
If it's necessary, put it in the toothpaste, not in the water. It is exceptionally bad for young children (hence, even in the US, children's toothpaste is generally Fluoride free).

HFCS is popular in the US, because (as you noted) we subsidize the hell out of it and we tax the hell out of sugar imports (except Mexico's, due to NAFTA).

Edit: here's the TL/DR Wiki summary for Fluoride Poisoning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluo … ted_States

There seems to be a lot of back and forth about whether or not water flouridation is a net benefit to society.  I suppose what makes me lean more in favor of flouridation is the history of conspiracy theories attached to the anti-flouridation crowd.

Turquoise wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_in_the_United_States

There seems to be a lot of back and forth about whether or not water flouridation is a net benefit to society.  I suppose what makes me lean more in favor of flouridation is the history of conspiracy theories attached to the anti-flouridation crowd.

If it has a medicinal effect, the dosage should be regulated by the FDA.
In the fresh water supply, there is no control over intake quantity per person.
At least in toothpaste, there is a somewhat controlled dosage schedule (at once or twice a day oral exposure).

Uncontrolled use of fluoridated water can lead to unintended concentrations of fluoride in unexpected places.  Like instant teas (tea has an affinity for absorbing fluoride, concentrated powdered tea mix multiplies this concentration), tobacco (worse than tea plants for absorbing fluoride from water), marijuana, decaf coffee (multiply that for instant decaf coffee),or some other plant derived foods. 

Some people drink a gallon or two of instant iced tea per day (see above link), some people don't drink any tap water in a day.  For this simple reason, using the public water system as the delivery vehicle for fluoride makes no logical sense.  There's no dosage control.

The only common sense use of fluoride for public benefit would be at a controlled level in toothpaste or mouthwash, with the option for non-fluoridated toothpaste for those of us that find nuclear waste in our toothpaste to be slightly gross

Fortunately for me, personally, they do not fluoridate the water in the area I live in.
Even if they did, the high calcium content in the water here would bind it up rather neatly.