this.JohnG@lt wrote:
this leak will either give us the cover to pull out, or wake people up to the fact that it's just not winnable..
It's the Obama plan.
It's the Obama plan.
maybe we spent all that tax money on miz obamas trip to spain so others may live
The people spoke and voted for Obama.11 Bravo wrote:
maybe we spent all that tax money on miz obamas trip to spain so others may live
I see your dilemma, I mean, it is dangerous having that info out there. But on the other hand, we KNOW we don't get real stories from the wars WE pay for. If our dollars go into the blood spilled, I think it only right that we see the REAL efficacy and effect of the conflict, well maybe at least to the point of NOT giving away intelligence, or exposing secrets. But as far as soldiers living and dying, plans failing or succeeding, where military spending is actually going, yeah, we need to see more of that. I would really love to see a true reality show on everyday life over there. I just don't think stories, pictures, videos do it justice. You don't get to see the realness of each soldier and their bonds, their fears, them missing family. I don't like the urge we have to hide any sign of emotion that soldiers may harbor.
I think, (definitely hypothetically here), that if we had immediately went straight for the jugular in Afghanistan, we could have avoided the "war of ideas" etc. When answering a brutal attack, I think force is far more accepted by the rest of the world. If we had just kept the target on the Taliban and Bin Laden, and never said sorry, and just threw everything we had at stopping them, the rest of the world would have at least looked the other way, all IMHO.
I think, (definitely hypothetically here), that if we had immediately went straight for the jugular in Afghanistan, we could have avoided the "war of ideas" etc. When answering a brutal attack, I think force is far more accepted by the rest of the world. If we had just kept the target on the Taliban and Bin Laden, and never said sorry, and just threw everything we had at stopping them, the rest of the world would have at least looked the other way, all IMHO.
Last edited by oChaos.Haze (2010-08-15 00:22:32)
If the US had kept the sights on Bin Laden that would have been something....If we had just kept the target on the Taliban and Bin Laden, and never said sorry, and just threw everything we had at stopping them, the rest of the world would have at least looked the other way, all IMHO.
In the aftermath of 9/11 the US had immense international capital, and squandered invading Iraq for reasons which still haven't seen the light of day.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-08-15 01:13:46)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Tamerlane also conquered Afghanistan. He didn't do it by killing everyone either. The Timurid's also later ended up controlling India until the British put an end to that.JohnG@lt wrote:
The British got kicked out and Alexander died during the invasion. The only successful invasion was by Genghis Khan and he wiped everyone out.Phrozenbot wrote:
Afghanistan has a history of being very difficult to conquer. As far as I know, there's only two times you could say it was legitimately conquered. By Alexander the Great and by the British in the 1800's.
The whole "Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires'' thing is really Eurocentric/ignorant view of history tbh. There have been a number of Empires that have been able to run Afghanistan without any problems. It only gets the 'graveyard of empires' title because every time a Euro empire tries to conquer or run it they end up not being able to control it. In any case, if anyone is really to blame for fucking up that region, it's the British.
Last edited by Macbeth (2010-08-15 03:22:51)
Good points... Personally, I just think Assange is an ally of the Taliban. Hopefully, he'll "disappear" soon.JohnG@lt wrote:
I'm having a really hard time deciding how I feel about Julian Assange and the way Wikileaks is handling it's newfound power.
On the one hand I can't help but feel anger because he has made the job of my former brothers and sisters in arms much more difficult in Afghanistan. He has also exposed them to increased danger in an environment already rife with it. In his effort to hurt the US, he has strengthened the Taliban. Now, I don't care how much hatred people have for the US, there isn't an educated person on the planet that would pick to live in Taliban-run Afghanistan.
But on the other hand I don't feel the war in Afghanistan is winnable. You can't make war on an idea unless you plan on wiping out entire portions of the planet while simultaneously destroying its history and guarding against its return in perpetuity. It's just not sane to think this is a real option. It's why we never had any shot at winning in Vietnam, it wasn't a linear 'capture the flag' kind of war where all you had to do was take the capital or knock out the leader and you've won. Wars on ideas are never hierarchical, and they're never rational. Afghanistan is indeed turning into another Vietnam so maybe this leak will either give us the cover to pull out, or wake people up to the fact that it's just not winnable.
While I can understand his belief that the government shouldn't be allowed to keep secrets from it's populace, he's going about it all wrong. He just seems like an angry petulant child mad at the world.
My feelings about the Army Specialist that leaked the documents remains unchanged though. He swore an oath, reneged on his oath and committed treason.