delta4bravo*nl*
Dutch Delight
+68|6760

Ayumiz wrote:

Did u guys ever watched Stealth? Did u see the missiles never touched the guy because he used the after burners and chaff and flare? I think Bf2 should adopt the same principle. If u use your after burners, the missiles can chase u yes, but if u drop on speed, you're screwed:P
Stealth is a fake movie...
In real Life the AA missile travels between mag 3 and 5, no fighter plane in the world can beet that.
You can still brake the lock if you flare and turn in the begining of the lock cickle.
Torin
Member
+52|6700

Cbass wrote:

is that counting the other 50,000 topics, besides this one, titled "fucking AA" "I hate the new AA" and other pilots bitchin.
Unless there are other 27 page threads on AA, no, it should just be this one.
Cbass
Kick His Ass!
+371|6702|Howell, Mi USA
Well none of them are 28 pages but there is alot out there.

AA seems to be the #1 thing people don't like about 1.2 (the pilots that is). theres a couple on the red/blue bug which in 340+ hours playing ive seen maybe 2 times, which is not a big deal to me.

Last edited by Cbass (2006-02-17 10:33:20)

https://bf3s.com/sigs/bb53a522780eff5b30ba3252d44932cc2f5b8c4f.png
CackNBallz
Member
+45|6751|Toronto, Canada

=[4th]=SlayThem wrote:

Ayumiz wrote:

Did u guys ever watched Stealth? Did u see the missiles never touched the guy because he used the after burners and chaff and flare? I think Bf2 should adopt the same principle. If u use your after burners, the missiles can chase u yes, but if u drop on speed, you're screwed:P
Yes, I agree, you should be able to somewhat out run the missles... maybe even fly by a friendly helo and make the missle hit the helo.. lol.
I actually did that last night!  I flew straight an attack helicopter with a J10 on my tail firing off his full load of air-to-air at me.  I dropped flares while doing an aileron roll to spread out the flares all around me and then knife-edged the heli and saw two [teamkills]!

I then performed a barrel roll into a Split-S and got on his tail, fired off two missiles while vulcan cannon blazing which ended a hilarious event.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6772|Dallas

Torin wrote:

Cbass wrote:

is that counting the other 50,000 topics, besides this one, titled "fucking AA" "I hate the new AA" and other pilots bitchin.
Unless there are other 27 page threads on AA, no, it should just be this one.
Right, it's pretty obvious to everyone you just defended yourself with some false information, not to mention your saying you're not whining when a) you were whining and b(you're now whining about how you weren't whining.

Shut up.
Torin
Member
+52|6700
Heh, whatever lets you sleep at night.
~RIP~Striker
Member
+0|6709|Scotland
As someone who pulled 52 hrs of flight time before the patch came out I got a few deaths caused by giving the surface to air missiles little credit and the odd time I got whacked for it. However since the patch has now came out, I give more respect to the SAM sites and vehicles. Currently my aviator kill ratio is 2.64 and this is because I DONT RAPE AN UNTAKEABLE. The only time when I venture close to an untakeable is to knock out a commander asset or chasing an enemy plane which is damaged and I am going to deliever the coup de grace.
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6687
Polarbearz : you must have killed me with utter impunity in your jet for the past 6 months over and over and over and over and over and over and over again . Now it's my turn Muwahahahahahahhahaa ! deal with it bitch !
Torin
Member
+52|6700
LOL, it never stops. These people apparently don't read more than the first page of the thread.
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6771

Once a thread gets this big... i doubt any of the new comers bother reading anything more than the first couple of posts. This has just gotten out of control, too big of a post.
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6687
no , no it's not .
=[4th]=SlayThem
Destroy Noob Cannons
+96|6841

Raevin wrote:

=[4th]=SlayThem wrote:

-=THC_RU=- wrote:


exacty, still the same crying about being plane/chopper whore, I mean we are being served on platter for every n00b wannabe, and still cant do shit.

I still get my 40-0 IAR, so whatever
It's because they want the skill handed to them, like everything else.. take the LMGs for instance. Everyone whined about them rather than getting use to how they fire. but now everyone that picks it up is a class A marksman.
I see quite a bit of contradiction in some of the above statements...especially in a thread that is basically 27 pages worth of complaining about AA by chopper/jet pilots who are having a hard time "adjusting" their tactics.

Yes, there are the few exceptional pilots that can defend themselves against stationary AA units (mobile AA units tend to have more weaponry to protect themselves)...however, here's where I get confused about many of the "n00b" stances and comments.

You guys claim that they handed the game over to "talentless n00bs"...but, I ask you...did they hand power to "talentless n00bs" or did they take power away from "talentless n00bs?"  Perhaps all they did was take power away from one group of "talentless n00bs" and give it to another group.  The balance of power is still there.  It just shifted from one spot to another.  Now, "talentless n00bs" that decide to fly will get shot out of the sky...and by the same token, an inexperienced AA user can also expect the same fate if he tries to outgun an experienced pilot.

Regarding LMG's...I haven't found them to be much more of a problem now than they were before.  Only a fool would try to outgun a purpose built machine gun with a carbine or even an assault rifle....UNLESS they get the jump on the MG'er.  If the MG'er is already prone and pointed at you, then he SHOULD have the upperhand 99% of the time...that's what they were built for...putting a high amount of lead downrange in a very short amount of time.
The point of the "talentless" thing is because, sure the jets now have to be good to get away from AA missles, but now, any noob can hop in the pilot seat and take out a very skilled pilot with a couple missles. Let's be honest.. that shouldn't be happening (this is not bitching, just making a point). And the LMGs are noobified. they can now strafe and fire and kill people that before they wouldn't be able to hit... they would have to fire in short bursts and be laying prone, and also,be trained to use it(trained being practicing a lot). If you haven't seen the new support kit in action.. go play a 24/7 karkand... you'll get raped. I was getting counter-sniped by ONE BURST of the PKM.. That shouldn't happen either.. especially at 100+meters. Anyways, that's just a couple of things they've created for the noobs, and I don't care for their choice, but I'll deal with it.
The main reason I'm so sore about the LMGs is because I prided myself in my LMG ability. and now everyone can do what I was doing pre 1.2, but they haven't practiced or anything to get that good.
Once again, I'll say, I will adapt. I'll overcome all of this, but in the mean-time, I'll voice my opinion about it regardless of what you guys think.
l41e
Member
+677|6656

For the record, I have read all 28 pages.

Around 3 of them were pilots whining.
Some of it was "ground pounders" (you guys use the term more than I ever have in my whole life) rightfully saying "the tables are turned".
The equivalent of 7 of them were a CERTAIN pilot [SFX:cough] saying essentially "Hah, shut up n00b, I'm better than you, c'mon and fight, everyone's a n00b but me, I could own you and you know it, I'm ALWAYS RIGHT, this is the only thread in the world."
CackNBallz
Member
+45|6751|Toronto, Canada
SlayThem, I have been reading this entertaining thread for awhile now, bit I have noticed that you have been kind of griping about the "noobs" being able to get up to your level of gaming (ya I saw those emoticons, but I think it is at least a half-truth, that you really are bothered by it.)  There isn't anything wrong with that.  The good players will always be better, and will be even better with these new changes as you have now been adapting to the new aviation environment.  This is just a plateau of everyone learning the new intricacies and nuances of the game.

I actually love the patch more and more everytime I play. The LMG should be feared.  Infantry aren't supposed to be able to just sprint across the street unscathed.  LMG tear up infantry in real-life and most other games, they are now up to what they should be.  The first few games I played Special Forces I was absolutely creamed because I didn't use proper infantry tactics.  I learned them and used them and now apply them to BF2 (which I play now exclusively, I haven't touched the expansion for months).  I am now slowly but surely bringing my small arms ratios to a positive.  That will now be a lot quicker now with the greater accuracy of all the weapons.

People will either have to adapt and use cover, play as a team, squad up, communicate with eachother like they are supposed to or fall behind.

With this new patch, they balanced the kits out to be what their roles should have been.  They have made some kits more enjoyable for some people now. And this is a game, and one objective of a game designer is to have its users enjoy it as much as possible.  I think that DICE has acheived it for the most part.
FeralExpress
Member
+0|6681
Hey all, I haven't taken the time to upgrade yet.  I've been following this all week, but haven't had time to post either.

I have 2 questions then 2 comments about the new patch, as far as aviation goes:

1) Have they fixed the crappy HUD bug that makes friendly vehicles and aa sites show up as enemies? (ground pounders--sorry about all the tk's, but this is the primary reason for about 95% of mine).  You generally have about half a second to compare the map with the hud, often times less, if you're being tailed-- you have to act quick or miss the opportunity.  I'm hoping they fixed this.  Some of us really are trying to cover you and defend the flags.

2) Are the mobile AA just as deadly as the fixed?  I usually play Daquing Oilfields (less tk'ing over fighters it seems, since there's more armor on the map--just bunny-hopping thieves who develop a sudden affection for trees once they steal a plane).  I'm just guessing, but the flying with the new patch could be easier on Wake where the aa sites seem to be fixed-- this could be much harder on Oilfields, when the aa could be anywhere.  Does that sound right?



The First Comment:
I was ticked when I heard about the AA upgrade, how it required no skill.  Then I talked to a buddy of mine who used to operate and train stinger crews in the Israeli military.  I asked him how hard it was for a stinger crew to shoot down a plane.

He said "Very easy, if you can track it properly."  ONe thing he said was that the range has to be very close in, which is why choppers are downed much more often.  Pretty much he said that if you can track and hold the lock on the heat signature until launch, the plane is dead, fire and forget, unless you hit a tree or something.  His crew got lots of free beer from the jet pilots that were trying to take them out.

So we all knew some modification needed to happen.  But all in all, it sounds like the patch is too easy for AA-- it sounds like shooting down planes is monkey work.  Thats not realistic, and it's not game-balancing.  Sounds like this needs to be fixed, even though real stingers are pretty awesome, from the sound of it.

But even so, they still require a brain and a steady hand.  It even sounds like the guy eating dinner while playing was BORED with it, he got so many kills.  (put down fork, click mouse, pick up fork.  Munch, munch)  That's not fun for anybody--which is really the point.  It sounds like you could train a pigeon to peck the mouse at the sound of the tone.  How can you take any pride in that?  At least a plane takes a certain amount of skill, even if only to get it off the runway (otherwise there wouldn't be so many bunny-hopping plane-thieves smacking into the trees at the end of it)

Same thing for Dogfighting-- I love a good chaingun fight.  It's too bad it seems that's been done away with.  It sounds like it's whoever spots the other guy first.  I hope that isn't the case.


Second Comment:
Everyone gets ticked about how high the plane's k/d ratio is when in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing.  You have to understand though--- it seems like this doesn't always mean points.  It doesn't always lead to major advancement.

You see, a plane can't get flag capture points.  You can't repair/reload/heal/revive other players.  The ground pounders and vehicles can do that.  I've had plenty of rounds with 30-50 kills where I haven't even PLACED in the top 3.  And you never even get those kills if there's a halfway decent pilot on the other team who can tie you up in dogfights for a while.

I don't know offhand but I seem to remember, while going through the top ten players, very few of them were aviator-focused.  Tanks and armor seem more the norm-- you can do all those point generating operations in them.  Last time I checked, the best aviators I've ever heard of weren't even in the top 100.

If planes were as imbalanced as eveyone says, ALL of the top ten players should be pilots, and little else.

And I don't know how many times I've pounded the enemy-- defended flag after flag, blown up every tank and jeep and helicopter I could find across the map-- and we've still lost the game, with my ground forces hiding behind buildings at the home base.

You see-- a plane is there to soften up the enemy-- but it's up to the ground forces to move in, take hold, and win the game.  In-gamespace, as in real life, the planes get the high kill ratio, but it's the ground forces who move in and win the war.  The current point system reflects that-- and that's as it should be.



Whew!  Long post in a long thread.  Anyway, if memory serves, it seems like I've had some good dogfights with some of you guys (even if I lost).  I hope this can continue when I upgrade.  Otherwise, I WILL go find a good flightsim.

FeralExpress
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6797|Singapore

Sigh.

Ground to air is not the gripe: Ground STILL < Air. That's the natural selection of things.

But NOW air to air is ridiculous. Any decent pilot that can hold a lock for 2 seconds can blow anyone out the air. Fuck the boys have already been seperated from the men, but now the distinction between good and ace pilots are blurred. Have you seen how ridiculous air to air combat is now? Release your ENTIRE load of missiles to kill someone. Simple as that.

So to you ground boys, you're still dead as far as i'm concerned.
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6797|Singapore

B.Schuss wrote:

polarbearz wrote:

Schuss you need to join FtB
I am sorry ? I need to join who/what ? are breasts involved ?

now, for the topic at hand, obviously everyone here has his/her own interpretation of how the game should be. But people need to realize BF2 isn't our game. EA/Dice made it, we just get to play it.

Of course, you cannot make everybody happy, some will always complain and say "wtf, EA/Dice/whoever destroyed my game!1!!"

Overall, I believe the patch will benefit the majority of the community

As slaythem has said, he overreacted a bit on the AA effectiveness. sure, it is stronger now, but not to an extent where no one can absolutely fly a jet any more. Control of AA emplacements will now become more important, but the good pilots are already adapting, and the introduction of the new L96A1 should help their cause.

I also believe EA/Dice made to patch with the intent to motivate more teamplay. We shall see wether that happens.
Yes there are breasts. Mike's man breasts.

Slay STILL sucks

*hipthrusts slaythem*



Sighs @ Air to Air.

Need to find something new to wh0re. PKM it is
=[4th]=SlayThem
Destroy Noob Cannons
+96|6841
Air to air is kinda stupid, but oh well...
I still think the missles are one big glitch. Tonight I fired two missels at an attack helo and one went right passed it, the second swirled around the cockpit until he released his flares and then the missle flew off hitting a teammate... lol...
Also, the missles seem to only hit at the DUMBEST angles.if you're flying right behind the person, they'll miss more times than not. very strange happenings.. Ah well.
check out the little screenshot in my sig... I hit a guy like this:

--  |

-- = me  | = him
I was going straight at his side and I hit him.
KiLLMasTer
Member
+3|6789|West Va (USA)
you guys know how EA is always doing a half ass job..... LoL
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6797|Singapore

*licks the planes*

after 2 x 90 round on Cleansweep, I'm loving it more and more.

For the first time bombing the AA on the US uncap is bringing in more kills than bombing the strip WOOHOO. Give it a rest slay, you'll never convince the idiots
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6797|Singapore

Lol @ your sig.

Yeah i watched Stealth. You CAN outrun missiles. Its technically possible i think..

Seriously. EA glitched on missile locks BAD. I saw a missile do about 8 zigzags LOL. Pretty retarded to see missiles zigzag around all over the place. Almost crashed laughing so hard. All you 'STFU FLYBOYs' whiners need to get on the same server as me I'll prove to you how useless sitting in the stations actually is. You'll TK your teammates, you'll KO your own blackhawk, but you won't be hitting me.

I've been coming down @ 90 degree angles on AA sites. From 500 Feet. Much safer Before the guy inside even gets a WHIFF of my heat signature he's dead Love it love it.
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6797|Singapore

jonnykill wrote:

Polarbearz : you must have killed me with utter impunity in your jet for the past 6 months over and over and over and over and over and over and over again . Now it's my turn Muwahahahahahahhahaa ! deal with it bitch !
Err ok. *hipthrusts your dead body*

Unless you've learnt to fly a plane and chase, I don't think sitting in an AA would make a big difference to me.
l41e
Member
+677|6656

Yawn.

Summary: "OMFGZ!!!!11 WE'RE B3TTER THEN U STILL LMFAO!!!!!!1111"

*crashes while spamming Global Chat with retarded messages*
Ayumiz
J-10 whore
+103|6741|Singapore
Yeah once the AA cant hit nothing, the b1tches will complain again:P
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6797|Singapore

No, we get blamed for hacking.

Yes my final say is still BUAHAHA AIR > GROUND NOOBLARS...

But serioulsy? EA needs to fix this, its making them look ridiculous.

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