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2010-07-10 09:25:58

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5692|College Park, MD

And here I was thinking it was one of the last states left that was still somewhat sane...

Elderly man facing charges for shooting at thieves

Moral of the story? Don't defend your life or property. Just don't. Because some asshole will end up charging YOU with a crime while some prior-offending pieces of shit will get off scott-free.

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg

2010-07-10 09:27:45

Harmor: Error_Name_Not_Found; +605|6539|San Diego, CA, USA

I hope that gets tossed out and overturned. If this thief wins then it would set bad president.

2010-07-10 09:28:30

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6461

reasonable application of force.

in england you can't shoot people that are trespassing or attempting a crime on your property. that's the role of the police. vigilante justice is wrong and degrades the quality of the land's law and legislation: it is not a moral or 'just' punishment to shoot and kill a person attempting a petty crime or larceny. call the police and go through the just and proper legal process. the only way you can get away with shooting, harming or taking somebody hostage for perpetrating a crime against you is if you claim a legal defense of diminished responsibility or provocation, as a result of continuous mental harassment.

cowboy justice is not fitting for a 21st century society, sorry.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-07-10 09:32:05

DesertFox-: The very model of a modern major general; +794|6675|United States of America

I'd imagine this tidbit is important to the context "...when they tried to run him over while stealing his flatbed trailer." Even if it did go to trial as it stands, there is still hope that the jurors might have some brains.

2010-07-10 09:32:34

Harmor: Error_Name_Not_Found; +605|6539|San Diego, CA, USA

God I'm glad I don't live in England. Where only the criminals have guns and the citizens are left defenseless.

See I think having guns in America is a deterant. If you're a thief and you go into someone's place, what's the chance they have a gun and could kill you? In American the changes are much higher, but in England is almost nil.

So if you where a thief, which country would you most likely burgle in?

2010-07-10 09:32:58

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6519|Global Command

Uzique wrote:
reasonable application of force.

in england you can't shoot people that are trespassing or attempting a crime on your property. that's the role of the police. vigilante justice is wrong and degrades the quality of the land's law and legislation: it is not a moral or 'just' punishment to shoot and kill a person attempting a petty crime or larceny. call the police and go through the just and proper legal process. the only way you can get away with shooting, harming or taking somebody hostage for perpetrating a crime against you is if you claim a legal defense of diminished responsibility or provocation, as a result of continuous mental harassment.

cowboy justice is not fitting for a 21st century society, sorry.

Put down the pretentious juice.

He said the thieves tried to run him over. If that is correct then it was a reasonable application of force.

2010-07-10 09:34:21

Harmor: Error_Name_Not_Found; +605|6539|San Diego, CA, USA

Reminds me of the thief that sued a Mall Operator when he fell though a sky light...

2010-07-10 09:34:25

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5692|College Park, MD

I did some more reading and apparently he never mentioned the 'attempted to run him over' thing in the police report.

I agree that shooting a thief might be extreme, but that would be very easily avoided if people just wouldn't do shit like stealing.

2010-07-10 09:36:41

Axatar: Member; +29|6452|France

Next time when you break into somebody's house, take the eventual responsabilities of your actions, here death, especially in the US with the 2nd amendment going around. Bullshit rules sometimes.....

2010-07-10 09:37:36

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5249|foggy bottom

I wish i could shoot a whole bunch of you

Tu Stultus Es

2010-07-10 09:38:36

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5692|College Park, MD

eleven bravo wrote:
I wish i could shoot a whole bunch of you

hey if any of us break into your house, feel free to go to town

2010-07-10 09:38:59

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5249|foggy bottom

wont even make it passed the front door

Tu Stultus Es

2010-07-10 09:39:17

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6461

ATG wrote:
Uzique wrote:
reasonable application of force.

in england you can't shoot people that are trespassing or attempting a crime on your property. that's the role of the police. vigilante justice is wrong and degrades the quality of the land's law and legislation: it is not a moral or 'just' punishment to shoot and kill a person attempting a petty crime or larceny. call the police and go through the just and proper legal process. the only way you can get away with shooting, harming or taking somebody hostage for perpetrating a crime against you is if you claim a legal defense of diminished responsibility or provocation, as a result of continuous mental harassment.

cowboy justice is not fitting for a 21st century society, sorry.
Put down the pretentious juice.

He said the thieves tried to run him over. If that is correct then it was a reasonable application of force.

the pretentious juice? it's english legal precedent. what's pretentious about the concept of 'justice'?

i don't think shooting someone is a legal application of force in this scenario, sorry.

perhaps it's hard for you to evaluate the concept of a 'reasonable application of force' when you come from a gun-rich culture.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-07-10 09:40:05

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5692|College Park, MD

eleven bravo wrote:
wont even make it passed the front door

past*

2010-07-10 09:41:51

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5249|foggy bottom

I think passed might actually work here. maybe not. im loaded right now. get uzique to answer

Tu Stultus Es

2010-07-10 09:42:41

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5692|College Park, MD

i don't think it does brah. id asksk uzique buti im a little ddrnuknm rahgt now

2010-07-10 09:43:06

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6519|Global Command

82-year-old Robert Wallace said he fired two shots at two men when they tried to run him over while stealing his flatbed trailer.

2010-07-10 09:43:35

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6461

the verb formulation depends entirely on the tense of the statement.

past would fit better in your original.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-07-10 09:44:17

Hurricane2k9: Pendulous Sweaty Balls; +1,538|5692|College Park, MD

Uzique wrote:
the verb formulation depends entirely on the tense of the statement.

past would fit better in your original.

2010-07-10 09:46:30

Harmor: Error_Name_Not_Found; +605|6539|San Diego, CA, USA

Hurricane2k9 wrote:
eleven bravo wrote:
I wish i could shoot a whole bunch of you
hey if any of us break into your house, feel free to go to town

But really would anyone here steal your shit? :-P

2010-07-10 09:47:54

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5249|foggy bottom

ATG would you please stop sending me your little messages in my karma box. thanks. we are not friends. we never were friends. we never "gamed" together. youve got some serious issues and I just dont want to be bothered by you any more. if your goal is to scare a way forum members with you stalking, you just might actually succeed.

Tu Stultus Es

2010-07-10 09:50:50

Harmor: Error_Name_Not_Found; +605|6539|San Diego, CA, USA

Uzique wrote:
ATG wrote:
Uzique wrote:
reasonable application of force.

in england you can't shoot people that are trespassing or attempting a crime on your property. that's the role of the police. vigilante justice is wrong and degrades the quality of the land's law and legislation: it is not a moral or 'just' punishment to shoot and kill a person attempting a petty crime or larceny. call the police and go through the just and proper legal process. the only way you can get away with shooting, harming or taking somebody hostage for perpetrating a crime against you is if you claim a legal defense of diminished responsibility or provocation, as a result of continuous mental harassment.

cowboy justice is not fitting for a 21st century society, sorry.
Put down the pretentious juice.

He said the thieves tried to run him over. If that is correct then it was a reasonable application of force.
the pretentious juice? it's english legal precedent. what's pretentious about the concept of 'justice'?

i don't think shooting someone is a legal application of force in this scenario, sorry.

perhaps it's hard for you to evaluate the concept of a 'reasonable application of force' when you come from a gun-rich culture.

I surely hope you never have to come face-to-face with someone threatening your family or your possessions. Police aren't going to be by your side when the shit hits the fan. If we learned anything from Katrina the government won't always be there for you and you'll have to fend for yourself.

Let's just hope the thief is there only steal your stuff (stuff can be replaced), and not there for anything worse (i.e. raping your family or you, or worst killing your or your dog).

2010-07-10 09:51:34

RTHKI: mmmf mmmf mmmf; +1,736|6727|Oxferd Ohire

Uzique wrote:
reasonable application of force.

in england you can't shoot people that are trespassing or attempting a crime on your property. that's the role of the police. vigilante justice is wrong and degrades the quality of the land's law and legislation: it is not a moral or 'just' punishment to shoot and kill a person attempting a petty crime or larceny. call the police and go through the just and proper legal process. the only way you can get away with shooting, harming or taking somebody hostage for perpetrating a crime against you is if you claim a legal defense of diminished responsibility or provocation, as a result of continuous mental harassment.

cowboy justice is not fitting for a 21st century society, sorry.

sooo shoot them and get your stuff back or hope the police catch them and get your stuff. k

i would think the media surrounding this would help him get off.

Last edited by RTHKI (2010-07-10 09:52:07)

2010-07-10 09:54:18

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6461

well if somebody is threatening to kill you than a 'reasonable application of force' (the key legal principle, here) would be to retaliate and cite the legal defense of self-defense. there are a lot of cases where people break and enter property with the intention and motive of only stealing property - which is a crime, if not a serious one - but home-owners then shoot or take the burglar hostage for redemptive purposes. that is not just and lawful behaviour - according to legal precedent, anyway. a particularly bad case is R v Martin, where a farmer with a history of break-ins ended up shooting two fleeing burglars in the back with his shotgun. he was rightly arrested and had a reduced sentence because of diminished responsibility (the defense argument rested upon the point that repeat-experiences being the victim of burglaries put him in an extremely anxious and unreasonable mental state).

rthki: think what you're saying. you are hoping that the media will interfere and influence a court-decision? that's dangerous and again, far removed from any proper concept of 'justice'. the media interfering with legal cases is a major nuisance and perversion of justice: the 'public' should not be involved in impartial legal decisions. even jurors are meant to be without stereotype, discrimination or preconception.

Last edited by Uzique (2010-07-10 09:55:33)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-07-10 10:01:25

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5249|foggy bottom

Uzique wrote:
well if somebody is threatening to kill you than a 'reasonable application of force' (the key legal principle, here) would be to retaliate and cite the legal defense of self-defense. there are a lot of cases where people break and enter property with the intention and motive of only stealing property - which is a crime, if not a serious one - but home-owners then shoot or take the burglar hostage for redemptive purposes. that is not just and lawful behaviour - according to legal precedent, anyway. a particularly bad case is R v Martin, where a farmer with a history of break-ins ended up shooting two fleeing burglars in the back with his shotgun. he was rightly arrested and had a reduced sentence because of diminished responsibility (the defense argument rested upon the point that repeat-experiences being the victim of burglaries put him in an extremely anxious and unreasonable mental state).

rthki: think what you're saying. you are hoping that the media will interfere and influence a court-decision? that's dangerous and again, far removed from any proper concept of 'justice'. the media interfering with legal cases is a major nuisance and perversion of justice: the 'public' should not be involved in impartial legal decisions. even jurors are meant to be without stereotype, discrimination or preconception.

very correct, although some states have "king of the castle" laws that give a property owners the right to not only defend themselves but also the right to chase down suspects with lethal force outside of their property if the chase started within the limits of said property. texas is one of those states. while california on the other hand, would allow homeowners to defend themselves, california would consider chasing a suspected burglar outside of your property as criminal.

matter of fact i think texas recently passed a law that gives individuals the right to defend someone elses property.

Tu Stultus Es

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Uzique wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

ATG wrote:

Uzique wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

Uzique wrote:

ATG wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

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