Well, actually...Turquoise wrote:
As a side note, I know it's probably strange to hear me side with a neocon argument.
The only way to change peoples thoughts, in this case, nutty muslim thoughts, is to make them less poor. When you wipe your ass with your left hand, waging jihad and blowing yourself up is a fairly appealing prospect. Give them TP and a little air conditioning and all the sudden Bin Laden isn't such a magnetic figure.
Perhaps they should talk to their own national leadership about that "giving" part?Reciprocity wrote:
The only way to change peoples thoughts, in this case, nutty muslim thoughts, is to make them less poor. When you wipe your ass with your left hand, waging jihad and blowing yourself up is a fairly appealing prospect. Give them TP and a little air conditioning and all the sudden Bin Laden isn't such a magnetic figure.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
No no and no. Saudi Arabia and Iran have these amenities and it doesn't stop them from spawning nutjobs. Osama Bin Laden was a fucking prince for christsakes.Reciprocity wrote:
The only way to change peoples thoughts, in this case, nutty muslim thoughts, is to make them less poor. When you wipe your ass with your left hand, waging jihad and blowing yourself up is a fairly appealing prospect. Give them TP and a little air conditioning and all the sudden Bin Laden isn't such a magnetic figure.
That's the exact same mentality that created welfare in America and spawned the massive underclass we currently have. You can't buy off the poor and make them behave.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-06-24 22:30:31)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I'm not saying "we" give them anything.FEOS wrote:
Perhaps they should talk to their own national leadership about that "giving" part?Reciprocity wrote:
The only way to change peoples thoughts, in this case, nutty muslim thoughts, is to make them less poor. When you wipe your ass with your left hand, waging jihad and blowing yourself up is a fairly appealing prospect. Give them TP and a little air conditioning and all the sudden Bin Laden isn't such a magnetic figure.
True.... lol...JohnG@lt wrote:
It's not, remember our PMs from months back?
Intel... We have intelligence agencies for a good reason. Obviously, they can still fuck up, but they tend to be good at what they do.JohnG@lt wrote:
How can you identify which opinions lead to murderous intent? How can you identify those who just mouth the words without meaning them? How can you identify someone who is about to hop on a plane and fly it into a pair of skyscrapers?
Let god sort them out only comes into play when collateral damage is mostly unavoidable.JohnG@lt wrote:
There isn't a machine in the world that can read minds or discern intent. You're advocating the 'Let god sort them out' approach and... man, that shit is just wrong.
Well, since you clearly advocated genocide in this very thread... that's a lot of collateral damage...Turquoise wrote:
True.... lol...JohnG@lt wrote:
It's not, remember our PMs from months back?Intel... We have intelligence agencies for a good reason. Obviously, they can still fuck up, but they tend to be good at what they do.JohnG@lt wrote:
How can you identify which opinions lead to murderous intent? How can you identify those who just mouth the words without meaning them? How can you identify someone who is about to hop on a plane and fly it into a pair of skyscrapers?Let god sort them out only comes into play when collateral damage is mostly unavoidable.JohnG@lt wrote:
There isn't a machine in the world that can read minds or discern intent. You're advocating the 'Let god sort them out' approach and... man, that shit is just wrong.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Well, oil wealth is accomplishing some of that. The UAE actually is progressing. There are other countries like Jordan that are as well.Reciprocity wrote:
The only way to change peoples thoughts, in this case, nutty muslim thoughts, is to make them less poor. When you wipe your ass with your left hand, waging jihad and blowing yourself up is a fairly appealing prospect. Give them TP and a little air conditioning and all the sudden Bin Laden isn't such a magnetic figure.
I'm not saying all Islamic countries are the same. Clearly, some are showing great potential, but others are just stuck in the Stone Age with no sign of improvement. Afghanistan is one of them. Pakistan's more remote regions are the same.
There would be in Afghanistan and in the bordering areas of Pakistan. Depending on how neighboring people would react, there potentially could be a lot more than that as well.JohnG@lt wrote:
Well, since you clearly advocated genocide in this very thread... that's a lot of collateral damage...Turquoise wrote:
True.... lol...JohnG@lt wrote:
It's not, remember our PMs from months back?Intel... We have intelligence agencies for a good reason. Obviously, they can still fuck up, but they tend to be good at what they do.JohnG@lt wrote:
How can you identify which opinions lead to murderous intent? How can you identify those who just mouth the words without meaning them? How can you identify someone who is about to hop on a plane and fly it into a pair of skyscrapers?Let god sort them out only comes into play when collateral damage is mostly unavoidable.JohnG@lt wrote:
There isn't a machine in the world that can read minds or discern intent. You're advocating the 'Let god sort them out' approach and... man, that shit is just wrong.
It all depends...
I'm honestly at a loss for words.Turquoise wrote:
There would be in Afghanistan and in the bordering areas of Pakistan. Depending on how neighboring people would react, there potentially could be a lot more than that as well.JohnG@lt wrote:
Well, since you clearly advocated genocide in this very thread... that's a lot of collateral damage...Turquoise wrote:
True.... lol...JohnG@lt wrote:
It's not, remember our PMs from months back?Intel... We have intelligence agencies for a good reason. Obviously, they can still fuck up, but they tend to be good at what they do.JohnG@lt wrote:
How can you identify which opinions lead to murderous intent? How can you identify those who just mouth the words without meaning them? How can you identify someone who is about to hop on a plane and fly it into a pair of skyscrapers?
Let god sort them out only comes into play when collateral damage is mostly unavoidable.
It all depends...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I think he's referring to job creation. That can be accomplished via the private sector or the public one.JohnG@lt wrote:
No no and no. Saudi Arabia and Iran have these amenities and it doesn't stop them from spawning nutjobs. Osama Bin Laden was a fucking prince for christsakes.Reciprocity wrote:
The only way to change peoples thoughts, in this case, nutty muslim thoughts, is to make them less poor. When you wipe your ass with your left hand, waging jihad and blowing yourself up is a fairly appealing prospect. Give them TP and a little air conditioning and all the sudden Bin Laden isn't such a magnetic figure.
That's the exact same mentality that created welfare in America and spawned the massive underclass we currently have. You can't buy off the poor and make them behave.
When considering that many of these countries operate with nationalized oil companies, that gives their governments the power to use the money to create jobs.
No, it gives their politicians a large piggy bankTurquoise wrote:
I think he's referring to job creation. That can be accomplished via the private sector or the public one.JohnG@lt wrote:
No no and no. Saudi Arabia and Iran have these amenities and it doesn't stop them from spawning nutjobs. Osama Bin Laden was a fucking prince for christsakes.Reciprocity wrote:
The only way to change peoples thoughts, in this case, nutty muslim thoughts, is to make them less poor. When you wipe your ass with your left hand, waging jihad and blowing yourself up is a fairly appealing prospect. Give them TP and a little air conditioning and all the sudden Bin Laden isn't such a magnetic figure.
That's the exact same mentality that created welfare in America and spawned the massive underclass we currently have. You can't buy off the poor and make them behave.
When considering that many of these countries operate with nationalized oil companies, that gives their governments the power to use the money to create jobs.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
In practice, that's what typically happens, but if their governments weren't so goddamn corrupt....JohnG@lt wrote:
No, it gives their politicians a large piggy bankTurquoise wrote:
I think he's referring to job creation. That can be accomplished via the private sector or the public one.JohnG@lt wrote:
No no and no. Saudi Arabia and Iran have these amenities and it doesn't stop them from spawning nutjobs. Osama Bin Laden was a fucking prince for christsakes.
That's the exact same mentality that created welfare in America and spawned the massive underclass we currently have. You can't buy off the poor and make them behave.
When considering that many of these countries operate with nationalized oil companies, that gives their governments the power to use the money to create jobs.
There are plenty of slums in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Poverty breeds extremism. Bin laden isn't a martyr or jihadi, al Zawahiri isn't a martyr or jihadi.JohnG@lt wrote:
No no and no. Saudi Arabia and Iran have these amenities and it doesn't stop them from spawning nutjobs. Osama Bin Laden was a fucking prince for christsakes.
It's not about buying off people. Some afghan rock farmer would cut off his mom's head to live like the poor in this country.That's the exact same mentality that created welfare in America and spawned the massive underclass we currently have. You can't buy off the poor and make them behave.
Last edited by Reciprocity (2010-06-24 22:42:17)
I don't follow conventional morality, especially when concerning an unconventional war. Depending on the situation, sometimes a lot of death is nothing short of necessary. You can't save everyone. Sometimes the best protection for the rest of the human population is to remove a certain section of it.JohnG@lt wrote:
I'm honestly at a loss for words.Turquoise wrote:
There would be in Afghanistan and in the bordering areas of Pakistan. Depending on how neighboring people would react, there potentially could be a lot more than that as well.JohnG@lt wrote:
Well, since you clearly advocated genocide in this very thread... that's a lot of collateral damage...
It all depends...
So what is stopping him from attaining our level of wealth? Nothing. They have natural resources, they have cheap labor, they could be taking the path that China has taken. Why haven't they?Reciprocity wrote:
It's not about buying off people. Some afghan rock farmer would cut off his mom's head to live like the poor in this country.JohnG@lt wrote:
No no and no. Saudi Arabia and Iran have these amenities and it doesn't stop them from spawning nutjobs. Osama Bin Laden was a fucking prince for christsakes.
There are plenty of slums in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Poverty breeds extremism. Bin laden isn't a martyr, al Zawahiri isn't a martyr.
That's the exact same mentality that created welfare in America and spawned the massive underclass we currently have. You can't buy off the poor and make them behave.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Wishes and whims are not facts nor are they a means to discover them.Turquoise wrote:
In practice, that's what typically happens, but if their governments weren't so goddamn corrupt....JohnG@lt wrote:
No, it gives their politicians a large piggy bankTurquoise wrote:
I think he's referring to job creation. That can be accomplished via the private sector or the public one.
When considering that many of these countries operate with nationalized oil companies, that gives their governments the power to use the money to create jobs.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Culture and a lack of education.JohnG@lt wrote:
So what is stopping him from attaining our level of wealth? Nothing. They have natural resources, they have cheap labor, they could be taking the path that China has taken. Why haven't they?Reciprocity wrote:
It's not about buying off people. Some afghan rock farmer would cut off his mom's head to live like the poor in this country.JohnG@lt wrote:
No no and no. Saudi Arabia and Iran have these amenities and it doesn't stop them from spawning nutjobs. Osama Bin Laden was a fucking prince for christsakes.
There are plenty of slums in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Poverty breeds extremism. Bin laden isn't a martyr, al Zawahiri isn't a martyr.
That's the exact same mentality that created welfare in America and spawned the massive underclass we currently have. You can't buy off the poor and make them behave.
Surely, you realize that Afghanistan is nowhere near as functional in a cultural sense as China is. China is a far more advanced country, even when considering its poverty.
....neither is rigid dogma or ideology.JohnG@lt wrote:
Wishes and whims are not facts nor are they a means to discover them.Turquoise wrote:
In practice, that's what typically happens, but if their governments weren't so goddamn corrupt....JohnG@lt wrote:
No, it gives their politicians a large piggy bank
Why is that my problem? Why should I, as Reciprocity seems to want, be on the hook to pay for their TVs and cars and satellite radios?Turquoise wrote:
Culture and a lack of education.JohnG@lt wrote:
So what is stopping him from attaining our level of wealth? Nothing. They have natural resources, they have cheap labor, they could be taking the path that China has taken. Why haven't they?Reciprocity wrote:
It's not about buying off people. Some afghan rock farmer would cut off his mom's head to live like the poor in this country.
Surely, you realize that Afghanistan is nowhere near as functional in a cultural sense as China is. China is a far more advanced country, even when considering its poverty.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Judging by another post above, that's not what he's suggesting. I believe he's referring to their own governments doing that, although we can always motivate these governments to do more of this by putting pressure on them.JohnG@lt wrote:
Why is that my problem? Why should I, as Reciprocity seems to want, be on the hook to pay for their TVs and cars and satellite radios?Turquoise wrote:
Culture and a lack of education.JohnG@lt wrote:
So what is stopping him from attaining our level of wealth? Nothing. They have natural resources, they have cheap labor, they could be taking the path that China has taken. Why haven't they?
Surely, you realize that Afghanistan is nowhere near as functional in a cultural sense as China is. China is a far more advanced country, even when considering its poverty.
I didn't suggest that at all. All I said was abject poverty breeds extremism.JohnG@lt wrote:
Why should I, as Reciprocity seems to want, be on the hook to pay for their TVs and cars and satellite radios?
Newp. It has to come from the people themselves. Wealth creation can not be dictated from on high. This is where the Soviets failed and where Chavez is currently failing rather spectacularly.Turquoise wrote:
Judging by another post above, that's not what he's suggesting. I believe he's referring to their own governments doing that, although we can always motivate these governments to do more of this by putting pressure on them.JohnG@lt wrote:
Why is that my problem? Why should I, as Reciprocity seems to want, be on the hook to pay for their TVs and cars and satellite radios?Turquoise wrote:
Culture and a lack of education.
Surely, you realize that Afghanistan is nowhere near as functional in a cultural sense as China is. China is a far more advanced country, even when considering its poverty.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I'm hardly rigid... just consistentTurquoise wrote:
....neither is rigid dogma or ideology.JohnG@lt wrote:
Wishes and whims are not facts nor are they a means to discover them.Turquoise wrote:
In practice, that's what typically happens, but if their governments weren't so goddamn corrupt....
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
And with that I am off to bed, tootles!
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat