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2010-06-09 05:13:40
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

So what was the reason the video was 'classified'?

Doesn't show any super-secret methods, equipment, people, locations or anything - its just embarassing to the govt.
You don't know if it does or not. It very well may, you just don't know what to look for.
Or it may not be, like so many things govts choose to 'classify' because they're politically embarassing.
Wrong.

The actual definitions for the varying classification levels (for the US) are:

CONFIDENTIAL: Containing information, the unauthorized disclosure of which poses a threat to national security.

SECRET: Containing information, the unauthorized disclosure of which poses a grave threat to national security.

TOP SECRET: Containing information whose unauthorized disclosure would pose the gravest threat to national security.

Classification is based on whether or not the disclosure is considered a threat to national security. It has nothing to do with what is politically embarrassing. Generally, it is not the images themselves, but the data shown around the images that makes videos such as the one in question classified (flight data, etc).
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-06-09 05:34:42
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England
It's a threat to national security because it's embarrassing/damaging, I'd presume

lol


I'd say unveiling dubious actions could very well take precedence over other things, you can't complain about a video showing some bad shit and then say well that shouldn't have been released because it contains "sensitive flight data" - I can understand the logic, it's just rather silly.

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2010-06-09 05:39:17)

2010-06-09 05:36:28
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Mekstizzle wrote:

It's a threat to national security because it's embarrassing/damaging, I'd presume

lol
Sorry, but embarrassing to the sitting administration or military does not meet "threat to national security" standard.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-06-09 05:45:38
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England
Generally, it is not the images themselves, but the data shown around the images that makes videos such as the one in question classified (flight data, etc).
To be fair there's plenty of videos out there of terrorists getting blown up and general military war porn. Suddenly a guy posts some dubious stuff and now the "sensitive data" card is being pulled because they don't like what's being shown.

And if all the other videos and documents and information that's out there was declassified so that it's fine putting it on the internet, then that shows that they keep some things classified for reasons other than sensitive data and such. In which we go back to people trying to cover things up and save their own arse

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2010-06-09 05:47:22)

2010-06-09 06:06:29
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Mekstizzle wrote:

Generally, it is not the images themselves, but the data shown around the images that makes videos such as the one in question classified (flight data, etc).
To be fair there's plenty of videos out there of terrorists getting blown up and general military war porn. Suddenly a guy posts some dubious stuff and now the "sensitive data" card is being pulled because they don't like what's being shown.

And if all the other videos and documents and information that's out there was declassified so that it's fine putting it on the internet, then that shows that they keep some things classified for reasons other than sensitive data and such. In which we go back to people trying to cover things up and save their own arse
It's not sudden. The videos posted have been vetted and any classified data scrubbed from them. You'll notice in the UAV videos and some aircraft HUD videos, there are black patches covering some areas. Sometimes the video skips, indicating segments have been edited out. The issue with this video is that it hasn't been vetted. There could be audio in there that reveals classified radio traffic in the background or some other thing we don't want the bad guys to know about--and none of that has anything to do with what people deem "embarrassing".
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-06-09 06:16:25
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:


You don't know if it does or not. It very well may, you just don't know what to look for.
Or it may not be, like so many things govts choose to 'classify' because they're politically embarassing.
Wrong.

The actual definitions for the varying classification levels (for the US) are:

CONFIDENTIAL: Containing information, the unauthorized disclosure of which poses a threat to national security.

SECRET: Containing information, the unauthorized disclosure of which poses a grave threat to national security.

TOP SECRET: Containing information whose unauthorized disclosure would pose the gravest threat to national security.

Classification is based on whether or not the disclosure is considered a threat to national security. It has nothing to do with what is politically embarrassing. Generally, it is not the images themselves, but the data shown around the images that makes videos such as the one in question classified (flight data, etc).
So you're saying the US govt has never classified stuff for political reasons?
Fuck Israel
2010-06-09 06:20:19
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5544|foggy bottom
there is a reason you have a 2 year fucking wait to get your security clearance in the army.  lol at thinking this specialist was privy to information that hadnt already been viewed by a few thousand pairs of eyes already.
Tu Stultus Es
2010-06-09 06:25:13
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England
One would have to assume that there would have been no chance 'they' would have let him post the shit he posted regardless of whether certain information was edited out or not.

I dunno, aside from that video Wikileaks posted I haven't seen anything else he leaked. At the end of the day you'd have to make the decision for yourself as to whether it was better that he leaked stuff despite risking "sensitive" information riding along with it, or whether he should have just accepted that the unrelated but sensitive stuff was more important than his perceived injustices (which brought about him doing the leaks in the first place)

It all depends on what people see as more important, I wouldn't know for sure cos I ain't seen all the shit he leaked
2010-06-09 06:26:25
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5544|foggy bottom
fuckers like that are the reason why I had to wait so long for my security clearance level to get approved.
Tu Stultus Es
2010-06-09 06:30:20
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

eleven bravo wrote:

fuckers like that are the reason why I had to wait so long for my security clearance level to get approved.
That and being in MS-13
Fuck Israel
2010-06-09 06:33:47
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

So you're saying the US govt has never classified stuff for political reasons?
"Political reasons" is a pretty broad swath. Diplomatic cables are classified because they deal with sensitive discussions upon which national security interests rely (see knucklehead's intent to disclose same to Wikileaks).
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-06-09 06:36:18
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

So you're saying the US govt has never classified stuff for political reasons?
"Political reasons" is a pretty broad swath. Diplomatic cables are classified because they deal with sensitive discussions upon which national security interests rely (see knucklehead's intent to disclose same to Wikileaks).
Manning described as exposing “almost criminal political back dealings.”
It's upto the individual to decide what's more important, I guess. The courts and such would have already made up their minds along time ago, legally there's almost no issue here I'm pretty sure this guy is gonna get his ass handed to him.
2010-06-09 06:36:27
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX
OK, reasons embarassing to the govt of they day - unconnected with national security.
Fuck Israel
2010-06-09 06:36:44
13rin
Member
+977|6764

eleven bravo wrote:

fuckers like that are the reason why I had to wait so long for my security clearance level to get approved.
I've been interviewed twice as a character reference.  Once by the Marines and once by the Army.  One of my friends is now a Ranger and the other guy is doing 'Intelligence' work for the Marines.  The Marine was a little twerpy guy I wouldn't have followed into battle.  I guess the Marines recognized this and stuck his ass in a non foward position where he couldn't get anyone hurt.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2010-06-09 08:05:24
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6827|Texas - Bigger than France

Dilbert_X wrote:

OK, reasons embarassing to the govt of they day - unconnected with national security.
Well, yes, like every other government no?
2010-06-09 11:09:30
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001

Dilbert_X wrote:

OK, reasons embarassing to the govt of they day - unconnected with national security.
Freedom of Information Act disagrees. This shit is still classified whether you like it or not.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-06-09 11:21:05
jord
Member
+2,382|6963|The North, beyond the wall.
You sign an agreement when you join and/or leave the military. Its a legal document, there is nothing to debate.
2010-06-09 11:34:58
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6934

I don't really see what the debate is about. He fucked up, he broke the law and the contracts that he signed. It doesn't matter if it was a video of Obama raping his daughter, if it's classified he can't send it public. This stuff is viewed by plenty of people who determine what needs to be done with it, and if, like in the made up example of Obama, it's illegal and action needs to be taken on it, then they will do that. Not up to him to decide.
2010-06-09 19:21:46
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

OK, reasons embarassing to the govt of they day - unconnected with national security.
Nobody said anything about that. He deemed them embarrassing, but he doesn't determine what is or is not detrimental to national security. He could release something that he thinks needs to see the light of day because he thinks it uncovers what he thinks is illegal or embarrassing, and all he's done is disclose information that gives adversaries pieces of the puzzle that they didn't have before--damaging national security interests that have fuckall to do with the topic he thinks he's uncovered.

That's the problem with guys like him--there really is a "bigger picture" out there, and guys at his level have no understanding of it. That's why stuff is vetted 8 ways from Sunday before it is declassified.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-06-10 07:43:39
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England
I hope he enjoys Leavenworth because he'll be there for a very long time. Getting a Top Secret clearance is no easy task and to then use it to leak classified documents? Well, he'll get what he deserves now.

He's no hero. He's just a pissed off employee that was demoted and wanted payback. Too bad he never learned that the Army always wins.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-06-10 11:28:01
rdx-fx
...
+955|6876
over 260,000 possible counts of treason?
Oh, hell.. he could be in Leavenworth for the next 26,000,000 years or so.

He joined the Army, thus he is subject to UCMJ rather than civilian law.
He joined Military Intelligence and has a TS clearance, thus he signed a boatload of "hey, I know this stuff is supersecret, an I'm not gonna say shit about it to no-one.  Under penalty of death, or Bubba buttsex, or making big rocks into little rocks for all eternity, or any combination thereof" documents ... which he effectively wiped his ass with, apparently. (Not including the documents he had to sign every day when he came on shift.)

This kid is screwed.

Like "my asshole is going to get more traffic than the holland tunnel" screwed.

Last edited by rdx-fx (2010-06-10 11:32:29)

2010-06-10 11:31:10
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,982|6917|949

Well I think it's plain as day that he will be in a load of trouble, but what about Wikileaks?
2010-06-10 11:37:18
rdx-fx
...
+955|6876

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Well I think it's plain as day that he will be in a load of trouble, but what about Wikileaks?
Implication in a few thousand counts of sedition or treason (or whatever term they'd pick).  I'm thinking that's enough to get a quiet warrant for the FBI, CIA, NSA to crawl all over every aspect of their operation, overtly or covertly.
2010-06-10 11:45:32
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6866|SE London

rdx-fx wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Well I think it's plain as day that he will be in a load of trouble, but what about Wikileaks?
Implication in a few thousand counts of sedition or treason (or whatever term they'd pick).  I'm thinking that's enough to get a quiet warrant for the FBI, CIA, NSA to crawl all over every aspect of their operation, overtly or covertly.
Over here they'd be protected by the Public Interest Disclosure act.

Employees of GCHQ, MI5 or MI6 are not covered by this for national security reasons. Anyone else can release any of this sort of information and be protected by this act.

It's freedom of speech.


I suspect Wikileaks is based somewhere which has laws to protect them. I think it is unlikely Wikileaks will have any significant problems due to this.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2010-06-10 11:47:06)

2010-06-10 12:28:09
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6508|Escea

Bertster7 wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Well I think it's plain as day that he will be in a load of trouble, but what about Wikileaks?
Implication in a few thousand counts of sedition or treason (or whatever term they'd pick).  I'm thinking that's enough to get a quiet warrant for the FBI, CIA, NSA to crawl all over every aspect of their operation, overtly or covertly.
Over here they'd be protected by the Public Interest Disclosure act.

Employees of GCHQ, MI5 or MI6 are not covered by this for national security reasons. Anyone else can release any of this sort of information and be protected by this act.

It's freedom of speech.


I suspect Wikileaks is based somewhere which has laws to protect them. I think it is unlikely Wikileaks will have any significant problems due to this.
I thought stuff like the army was excluded from the PID and that everyone who takes up a career where they work with potentially sensistive material was bound by the OS act?

 

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