Nope, wrong.lowing wrote:
Yet you seem to think Israel will disappear or should, through terrorism, intimidation and war. I do not blame Israel for defending itself, fighting back, or even hitting harder. Leave them alone and I am convinced violence in the region would end. On the other hand if Israel were to vanish, I do not think that would be the end of Islamic aggression. There simply would be another issue to bitch about and focus on and terroriseCameronPoe wrote:
If the animal does something or has done something to put himself in a position where he can expect to be continuously poked, I'd blame the animal for not addressing the root of the problem. It's like someone who keeps using an over the counter ointment that eases an irritation instead of going to see the doctor for a lasting solution. The Palestinians are not and will not ever disappear - Israel can't go around wearing blinkers and earmuffs forever.lowing wrote:
you keep hitting an animal with a stick and he his gunna bite. Are you really going to blame the animal for being aggressive, or are you going to blame the person doing the poking?
Nope, they'll just generate another pretext to seize more territory.lowing wrote:
Leave them alone and I am convinced violence in the region would end.
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and what Jewish aggression do you use to support your opinion that they want to take over the world or at least the ME?CameronPoe wrote:
Nope, wrong.lowing wrote:
Yet you seem to think Israel will disappear or should, through terrorism, intimidation and war. I do not blame Israel for defending itself, fighting back, or even hitting harder. Leave them alone and I am convinced violence in the region would end. On the other hand if Israel were to vanish, I do not think that would be the end of Islamic aggression. There simply would be another issue to bitch about and focus on and terroriseCameronPoe wrote:
If the animal does something or has done something to put himself in a position where he can expect to be continuously poked, I'd blame the animal for not addressing the root of the problem. It's like someone who keeps using an over the counter ointment that eases an irritation instead of going to see the doctor for a lasting solution. The Palestinians are not and will not ever disappear - Israel can't go around wearing blinkers and earmuffs forever.
Plenty to support the Islamic agenda.
David Ben Gurion: “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”lowing wrote:
and what Jewish aggression do you use to support your opinion that they want to take over the world or at least the ME?
Plenty to support the Islamic agenda.
Ariel Sharon: “Everybody has to move; run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements, because everything we take now will stay ours. Everything we don't grab will go to them.”
Denial of right of return, biblical zionism, destroying civilian medical/educational/economic infrastructure using a 'they fired rockets at us' pretext (true but not warranting such action), etc.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2010-06-08 16:51:39)
This is their plan, from around 1910.lowing wrote:
and what Jewish aggression do you use to support your opinion that they want to take over the world or at least the ME?
This is their progress on achieving it
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-08 16:34:37)
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All of that and you never mention the wars started by the surrounding Arab and Islamic countries. The land was lost because they lost it in a war. Or does the "to the spoils goes the victors" only apply to everyone else? Are you really pissed that Israel has won the wars staeted by them? Tough shit. No such thing as "over kill" in self defense.
Sure, and the allies started WW2, all the Germans did was invade Poland - which was theirs anyway (according to the Germans) - and the rest of the world went nuts.lowing wrote:
All of that and you never mention the wars started by the surrounding Arab and Islamic countries.
The Israelis had their game plan from day one.
Provoke - get reaction - kill more arabs - seize more land.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-08 17:08:50)
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Wars that were a response to what I showed in my post. "The spoils of war" is a very dated term in the context of international law, the Geneva convention, prevaling morality, civilian rights and the end of colonialism. I take it the USA are constructing settlements in the 51st state - Afghanistan - now that they have defeated that nation in response to 9/11? lol. I suppose for a brief period Hitler was entitled to Czechoslavakia after his victory over them? Logic bypass. A simliar things that happened in early 1900s Palestine is happing in SW USA. Enjoy speaking Spanish to your grandchildren... Your saving grace is that they want to assimilate, not carve out la Republica de Mexifornia.lowing wrote:
All of that and you never mention the wars started by the surrounding Arab and Islamic countries. The land was lost because they lost it in a war. Or does the "to the spoils goes the victors" only apply to everyone else? Are you really pissed that Israel has won the wars staeted by them? Tough shit. No such thing as "over kill" in self defense.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2010-06-09 00:47:19)
Just one quick question for you lowing ... when was this war/wars between Palestine and Israel that you speak of that supposedly warrants the Israelis to have won their land?lowing wrote:
All of that and you never mention the wars started by the surrounding Arab and Islamic countries. The land was lost because they lost it in a war. Or does the "to the spoils goes the victors" only apply to everyone else? Are you really pissed that Israel has won the wars staeted by them? Tough shit. No such thing as "over kill" in self defense.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
correct me if I am wrong, but the world set up Israel, not the Jews.CameronPoe wrote:
Wars that were a response to what I showed in my post. "The spoils of war" is a very dated term in the context of international law, the Geneva convention, prevaling morality, civilian rights and the end of colonialism. I take it the USA are constructing settlements in the 51st state - Afghanistan - now that they have defeated that nation in response to 9/11? lol. I suppose for a brief period Hitler was entitled to Czechoslavakia after his victory over them? Logic bypass. A simliar things that happened in early 1900s Palestine is happing in SW USA. Enjoy speaking Spanish to your grandchildren... Your saving grace is that they want to assimilate, not carve out la Republica de Mexifornia.lowing wrote:
All of that and you never mention the wars started by the surrounding Arab and Islamic countries. The land was lost because they lost it in a war. Or does the "to the spoils goes the victors" only apply to everyone else? Are you really pissed that Israel has won the wars staeted by them? Tough shit. No such thing as "over kill" in self defense.
If the chechs started a war with germany and got got their asses kicked, and lost their land, oh well.
I simply find it laughable that given Islamic attitude toward everything non Islamic, that you point at Israel as the problem.
THey were killing Jews long before their was the excuse of Israel to do so.
One quick question, what is this nation called Palestine that you speak of? When was it recognized as a sovereign nation? And if it Palestine was a nation, what gave Syria Jordan, Iraq Iran, Egypt etc, the right to enter it to make war against Israel?Varegg wrote:
Just one quick question for you lowing ... when was this war/wars between Palestine and Israel that you speak of that supposedly warrants the Israelis to have won their land?lowing wrote:
All of that and you never mention the wars started by the surrounding Arab and Islamic countries. The land was lost because they lost it in a war. Or does the "to the spoils goes the victors" only apply to everyone else? Are you really pissed that Israel has won the wars staeted by them? Tough shit. No such thing as "over kill" in self defense.
Incorrect. The World Zionist Federation expedited it, Jewish geurrillas ousted the Brits and the world found a sap they could dump the bill for their crimes against Judaism on: Palestine. The UN envisaged TWO states, not one incidentally. Your Chechnya analogy would be more accurate if you said Chechnya went to war with Germany because they had invaded and annexed part of their territory. In which case Germany would not be entitled to engage in FURTHER expansionism. You need to set your aversion to Islam aside on this topic and view the situation in a logical principled manner. If your principle is 'might makes right' or the case is 'i just prefer Jews to Muslims' then i'm afraid the conversation is pointless.lowing wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but the world set up Israel, not the Jews.CameronPoe wrote:
Wars that were a response to what I showed in my post. "The spoils of war" is a very dated term in the context of international law, the Geneva convention, prevaling morality, civilian rights and the end of colonialism. I take it the USA are constructing settlements in the 51st state - Afghanistan - now that they have defeated that nation in response to 9/11? lol. I suppose for a brief period Hitler was entitled to Czechoslavakia after his victory over them? Logic bypass. A simliar things that happened in early 1900s Palestine is happing in SW USA. Enjoy speaking Spanish to your grandchildren... Your saving grace is that they want to assimilate, not carve out la Republica de Mexifornia.lowing wrote:
All of that and you never mention the wars started by the surrounding Arab and Islamic countries. The land was lost because they lost it in a war. Or does the "to the spoils goes the victors" only apply to everyone else? Are you really pissed that Israel has won the wars staeted by them? Tough shit. No such thing as "over kill" in self defense.
If the chechs started a war with germany and got got their asses kicked, and lost their land, oh well.
I simply find it laughable that given Islamic attitude toward everything non Islamic, that you point at Israel as the problem.
THey were killing Jews long before their was the excuse of Israel to do so.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2010-06-09 04:15:38)
might make it right in northern ireland?
Are you talking about the British Empire's conquest of Ireland? Newsflash : there was a peace process.11 Bravo wrote:
might make it right in northern ireland?
took a while didnt it? and what i am saying is the irish faught to keep northern ireland. did might make it right?CameronPoe wrote:
Are you talking about the British Empire's conquest of Ireland? Newsflash : there was a peace process.11 Bravo wrote:
might make it right in northern ireland?
Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-06-09 04:21:21)
OK, you're wrong.lowing wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but the world set up Israel, not the Jews.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
would it have been there if not for WWII?Dilbert_X wrote:
OK, you're wrong.lowing wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but the world set up Israel, not the Jews.
The Irish in the Republic mostly didn't. It was predominantly those Irishmen north of the border trapped under British rule resisting said rule. The British could have levelled Ireland in response in a matter of weeks with modern military technology. They had the might but knew that that would not be right, even though it would have got rid of all their problems.11 Bravo wrote:
took a while didnt it? and what i am saying is the irish faught to keep northern ireland. did might make it right?CameronPoe wrote:
Are you talking about the British Empire's conquest of Ireland? Newsflash : there was a peace process.11 Bravo wrote:
might make it right in northern ireland?
Might wan't to study a tad of history lowing so here are some links to help you out ...lowing wrote:
One quick question, what is this nation called Palestine that you speak of? When was it recognized as a sovereign nation? And if it Palestine was a nation, what gave Syria Jordan, Iraq Iran, Egypt etc, the right to enter it to make war against Israel?Varegg wrote:
Just one quick question for you lowing ... when was this war/wars between Palestine and Israel that you speak of that supposedly warrants the Israelis to have won their land?lowing wrote:
All of that and you never mention the wars started by the surrounding Arab and Islamic countries. The land was lost because they lost it in a war. Or does the "to the spoils goes the victors" only apply to everyone else? Are you really pissed that Israel has won the wars staeted by them? Tough shit. No such thing as "over kill" in self defense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Ma … _Palestine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transjordan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine
So will you now answer my question or deflect it yet again?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Gee I coulda swore the UN created the 2 state solution, giving land to the Jews. The Jews decided they wanted Independence, ya know, kinda like Ireland, but different I guess. It was this independence that started the wars.CameronPoe wrote:
Incorrect. The World Zionist Federation expedited it, Jewish geurrillas ousted the Brits and the world found a sap they could dump the bill for their crimes against Judaism on: Palestine. The UN envisaged TWO states, not one incidentally. Your Chechnya analogy would be more accurate if you said Chechnya went to war with Germany because they had invaded and annexed part of their territory. In which case Germany would not be entitled to engage in FURTHER expansionism. You need to set your aversion to Islam aside on this topic and view the situation in a logical principled manner. If your principle is 'might makes right' or the case is 'i just prefer Jews to Muslims' then i'm afraid the conversation is pointless.lowing wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but the world set up Israel, not the Jews.CameronPoe wrote:
Wars that were a response to what I showed in my post. "The spoils of war" is a very dated term in the context of international law, the Geneva convention, prevaling morality, civilian rights and the end of colonialism. I take it the USA are constructing settlements in the 51st state - Afghanistan - now that they have defeated that nation in response to 9/11? lol. I suppose for a brief period Hitler was entitled to Czechoslavakia after his victory over them? Logic bypass. A simliar things that happened in early 1900s Palestine is happing in SW USA. Enjoy speaking Spanish to your grandchildren... Your saving grace is that they want to assimilate, not carve out la Republica de Mexifornia.
If the chechs started a war with germany and got got their asses kicked, and lost their land, oh well.
I simply find it laughable that given Islamic attitude toward everything non Islamic, that you point at Israel as the problem.
They were killing Jews long before their was the excuse of Israel to do so.
Palestine[1]Varegg wrote:
Might wan't to study a tad of history lowing so here are some links to help you out ...lowing wrote:
One quick question, what is this nation called Palestine that you speak of? When was it recognized as a sovereign nation? And if it Palestine was a nation, what gave Syria Jordan, Iraq Iran, Egypt etc, the right to enter it to make war against Israel?Varegg wrote:
Just one quick question for you lowing ... when was this war/wars between Palestine and Israel that you speak of that supposedly warrants the Israelis to have won their land?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Ma … _Palestine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transjordan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine
So will you now answer my question or deflect it yet again?
فلسطين
Filastin
Flag Coat of arms
Anthem: Biladi adopted 1996 - Mawtiny was adopted from 1936 till 1995
Capital Jerusalem (proclaimed)[i][1][2]
Gaza, Ramallah (administrative)
Largest city Gaza1
Government Semi-presidential;
Parliamentary democracy
- President Mahmoud Abbas
Establishment
- Declared November 15, 1988
Population
- 2009 (July)1 estimate 4,136,540 (125th)
GDP (PPP) 20081 estimate
- Total $11.95 billion1 (-)
- Per capita $2,9001 (-)
HDI (2007) ▼ 0.731 (medium) (106th)
Currency Jordanian dinara
Egyptian Poundb
Israeli shekelc (JOD, EGP, ILS)
Time zone (UTC+1)
- Summer (DST) (UTC+2)
Internet TLD .ps
Calling code +9702
1 Population and economy statistics and rankings are based on the Palestinian territories
2 +972 is also used as well.
Wikisource has original text related to this article:
Palestinian Declaration of Independence
"The State of Palestine (Arabic: دولة فلسطين, dawlat filastin, or simply Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين, filastin) is the objective of the Palestinian people. A Palestinian Declaration of Independence was unilaterally declared on 15 November 1988 in Algiers by the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) Palestinian National Council (PNC),[1][2] but the current status of the declaration is unclear. Some countries recognized Palestine as a state, while other countries announced they welcomed this step without explicitly declaring recognition. The exact number of countries offering recognition is unknown, with different figures being given by various sources. Some countries recognise the PLO as the "sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people", while others deal with the PLO as the de facto authority in the Palestinian territories.
At the time of the 1988 declaration, the PLO did not exercise control over any territory,[3] and designated Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine,[i][1][2] despite Israeli control over the city and its designation as the Israeli capital in Israeli law." ]
I will wait until we figure out what Palestine is first. From your source by the way, so maybe you need to figure out the history.
Last edited by lowing (2010-06-09 06:00:03)
So you ignored the other two links?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
What more needs to be addressed regarding my questions? Paestine is not a country, and it never was.Varegg wrote:
So you ignored the other two links?
As an independent nation you are correct ...lowing wrote:
What more needs to be addressed regarding my questions? Paestine is not a country, and it never was.Varegg wrote:
So you ignored the other two links?
So back to my question ... ready to answer yet?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Who knows, quite probably. The Zionists were agitating to be given Palestine from 1897 onwards, they effectively achieved some of it in 1922.11 Bravo wrote:
would it have been there if not for WWII?Dilbert_X wrote:
OK, you're wrong.lowing wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but the world set up Israel, not the Jews.
Except they weren't so keen on the rights of the Palestinians so they ignored the last bit.League of Nations (1922) wrote:
The Mandatory (…) will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!