BF2S Forums Official patch 1.2 complaint thread.

|DL|Krokkieboy wrote:

so wheres yours , too afraid to show it now?LOL

Kid.  Look next to my name.  See where it says bf2stats?

ffs... you are stupid.

Quokka.

Khadgar323 wrote:

This isn't even a topic for discussion but I will take your bait, Battlefield shouldn't be about absolute realism, if that was the case why does everyone have a chute and can jump off buildings, why can people be revived.  Battlefield is a class based game and that's what makes it fun, the weapons should fit the role of the class to keep the game balanced. If this was a tactical shooter like GhR I could understand why the weapons real life performance would be of any importance.

Yup... and that's what we have now.  Planes can hit targets if they have skill (which most don't), there are ways to defend, and ways to counter that defense.  Balance.

Quokka

Khadgar323 wrote:

CombatQuokka wrote:

Khadgar323 wrote:

This isn't even a topic for discussion but I will take your bait, Battlefield shouldn't be about absolute realism, if that was the case why does everyone have a chute and can jump off buildings, why can people be revived.  Battlefield is a class based game and that's what makes it fun, the weapons should fit the role of the class to keep the game balanced. If this was a tactical shooter like GhR I could understand why the weapons real life performance would be of any importance.

Yup... and that's what we have now.  Planes can hit targets if they have skill (which most don't), there are ways to defend, and ways to counter that defense.  Balance.

Quokka

Judging from the link that you referred to in your previous post we were talking about the support class, which I feel has become unbalanced because of it's increase in accuracy. None of my posts have brought up a dicussion of air power. Support should be able to be countered by going long range and snipering, but support is so accurate now that it is able to win even in quite a few of those long range situations.

Maybe you missed this part...

"If necessary, it can be mounted on the M3 tripod for use in the ground role or in the upper levels of buildings. When mounted on a tripod, the caliber .50 machine gun can be used as an accurate, long-range weapon and can supplement sniper fires."

... or this part...

"The platoon leader employs his M240B machine guns with the dismounted element or with a rifle squad to provide long range, accurate, sustained fires under all visibility conditions against dismounted infantry, apertures in fortifications, buildings, and lightly armored vehicles and trucks."

... or this part...

"Given enough experience, SAW gunners come to understand they are real machine gunners. They must act together as machine guns do to provide mutual support and create the "wall of steel" necessary to take out troop concentrations, provide cover fire for maneuver elements, and engage enemy machine guns"

... or, most importantly, this part...

"Plus, I was usually set in a position where I could engage targets to max visibility, be that 5 meters, or 1000 meter. These avenues of approach were magnets; drawing people and vehicles into my sights."


Quokka

Last edited by CombatQuokka (2006-02-16 00:35:07)

I got in the Chinese attack chopper on Dalian, got shot down three times, once by THE ESSEX when I was over the shore! Helis are fucked, they're way too weak now, I was getting so many lock warnings, and getting shot by tanks, my health went down so quickly. They need to put the aircraft health back to normal. I bet the chinese cow will be practically unuseable. Also helis are further hobbled by the fact that jets can probably still evade the insano-AA with their speed, but helis are limited to a relatively low speed, and also the need to be lower down to hit ground targets. So they'll be getting owned from both above, and below now.

They have gone too far with the AA, it's so irritating the the little noobos can't take the fact that they might have to use cover on the ground, or maybe accept the fact that you can't take out an aircraft with an assualt rifle, and they will get bombed, like the rest of us. Aargh.

JonskyGBR wrote:

BunnyHop fix is a JOKE.

I didn't mind it all that much, didn't even see it that often.

Should have delayed between jumps rather than not being able to shoot while jumping. Can't throw med/ammo/c4 it's just shit.

And why is anybody who jumped in a chopper or plane once in a while a "whore" please ????????????
Please explain it, I really want to know.

I agree with you. The patch is a useless piece of shit which bum licks n00bs!

VidSicious wrote:

I have just over 100 hours on each gun and I thought with 1.12 each class was just about perfect.  Yes.. the support gun was subpar, but that was more than made up for by being able to nade whore, so on balance, the support class was better than average.  Now they have noobified the entire game so people can get lots of kills with no skill or practice.  BF2 has become just another frag fest.

I rarely ran into bunnies or dolphins, and when I did, big deal.  They were easy to kill.  Now this whole jump and no shoot, and get stuck in prone position is retarded. 

I thought I would try the medic class after being noobed by every PKM under the sun.  You can't jump on a guy, shock him, and bounce back up anymore.  Now you lie in the street waiting to get shot.  It took me about 5 minutes so say the hell with reviving teammates, as I was not going to die with them.  The unintended consequences of anti dolphin is that they ruined the medic.

Not being able to jump and toss and medic bag or a supply box is stupid.  Again, ruin teamplay.  I hardly ever saw the c4 tossers.  And when you did they could be dealt with.  Big deal.

Being able to jump and shoot around a corner was fun.  Now that is gone. 

The ridiculous grenade toss and the suped up support gun has now turned city maps into nade whoring fests and support gun snipers.

The noob tube fix is stupid.  The egg delay is like a bad piece of programming that makes you feel like you lagged.

They should have only changed 3 things in the game and left the gameplay alone.  Those 3 things were the red tag bug, eliminate getting TK'd by the M95 out of a vehicle since that happens so often it makes me want to puke, and make the AA better. 

Instead they ruin the game by eliminating many fun aspects of each kit, powering up the weapons so that all noobs can instantly get kills with no practice, and not fixing the real issues that do ruin the game. 

I can't even fathom what a bunch of morons these guys were to pick the "fixes" they did.  Did they have some focus groups with 10 year old kids or something to do what they did?  Obviously they did not play the game themselves.

After 800 hours, very little in the air, I am done.  I never did learn to be a dolphin, bunny, or toss and now I never will.  I am going to find a different game to play and it will not be from EA Lames.

I would love to hear from EA Lames how many total hours, and # of players, and hours/player/day are playing patch 1.2 vs. 1.12.  I would bet $100 right now that the numbers drop like a rock.

I agree on everything you said except make AA stronger.

They should if only fixed the bugs like Scar-L reload bug, red tag, shock paddles reload when not in use, using mounted mg whilst crouching, reduce flashbang.

The new features like the ranks, unlocks and UAV is good. What is really shit though is the First Sgt Gap in points to Master Gunnery Sgt, 20,000 to 50,000?!  Sgt Major to 2nd Lieutenant is only 50,000 to 60,000! They could of at leased fix since now there is laods more ranks instead of fucking up BF2.

They should of left everything else e.g mp7 and choppers, armour, kits, proneing, jumping, sprint, grenades, GL, and (c4 medic and ammo packs) and I hope someone tells them this!

Last edited by Angry Player (2006-02-16 01:56:10)

blah, blah, blah...It's good and you all are going to play it. The ONLY nag I got was the RED BUG. Otherwise, it is a great patch, one that needed to be done, and we ALL knew this because we've been quoting DICE for the changes they said they were going to make months ago. Just adapt, you precious points can take a hit, your wife isn't going to divorce you, you teacher isn't going to expel you, you dog will still be beside you when you precious points take a nosedive. ADAPT and overcome.

Quokka,

Stop your insipid whining ranting and get something straight - not everyone who is complaining was a jet whore who got all their points by dropping bombs on uncappable flags.  This just in - other people are entitled to their opinions and don't need a forum troll freaking out and putting up 2934328 posts flaming them.  Please try and display a little maturity, or if you can't manage that at least a little reason.  It is quite possible to have an intelligent discussion about the merits/drawbacks of the patch.  Also, while your material about the support class does reflect real life - we are not dealing with real life here, we are dealing with a video game that is designed to entertain.  The overpowered support class takes away from the entertainment value of the end product in many peoples' eyes.

IMO, the "patch" really disrupted the flow of the game in many ways, that is the consensus of many people who play the game.  I hadn't before considered the effect to medics, b/c I don't played as one since the patch, but the anti-dolphin-diving fix has effectively weakened that class tremendously as well as you can no longer quickly dive in and revive a fallen teammate, or throw your medkits.

I feel that the bottom line is that the game is less fun with the 1.2 patch.  I will again use Karkand as my primary example since it is probably the most popular BF2 map - and anti-air isn't even an issue there, which is one of the major complaints, so we can completely avoid the Helo/Jet/AA controversy. 

The 1.2 Karkand, with the absurd AT mine "fix" and the overpowering of the PKM and dramatic changes of movement ability [dolphin diving and bunnyhopping could have been fixed without taking quick diving, shooting, and throwing things out completely] - has become a grenade tossing and PKM proning campfest at the front entrance to the city.  The map used to be a great deal of fun because of the quick runs in HMMVs behind enemy lines to capture interior sites, with a lot of frenetic combat inside the city.  Experienced players and squads used to love making runs at the Gatehouse or defending it.  Now, it is very easy to prevent the US from getting behind enemy lines at all [just drop those indestructible AT mines everywhere], and instead of a very fun game of cat and mouse, many rounds of Karkand instead become a n00bish fragwar at the front.  Karkand is not nearly as fun to play anymore.

Now I will discuss more of the patch - the major complaints pre-1.2 patch: AA too weak, bunnyhopping and dolphin diving could have been addressed much more effectively without really disrupting the flow of the game.  I still can't for the life of me figure out what in hell was going on when they decided to make invincible AT mines.  I stand by this being the dumbest thing since our Vice-President went hunting to happen in America - if you are smart enough to see the mines, you should be able to take them out without having to get out and wrench 'em - particulary since diving and wrenching is a slow affair now, one sure to get you killed.  Retarded.

Outside of gameplay, there are many other documented problems - lag spikes and FPS issues.  And on my computer at least, when I shut down the BF2-1.2, I still have a lot of RAM tied up and CPU cycles occupied by something - forcing me to reset to free up my resources, so the programming isn't clean either.

Overall, I think the 1.2 patch is the worst "fix" I have ever seen in the history of online gaming.  I would much rather have to contend with the occasional bunny-hopping, dolphin-diving, C4 throwing mutant [hell I thought those guys were funny from time to time], some blackhawk whores, occasionally getting TKed so someone could fly the chopper -  and have a more fun gaming experience as opposed to watching all the nubs break out their PKMs and start throwing grenades 90123491 yards.

Last edited by MC Boogs (2006-02-16 02:40:28)

1SFG-Hawk wrote:

Thankyou whining bitching little noobs for fucking up a perfectly good game.  Too bad EA didnt ask the expierienced players opinions...  The whole thing sucks...almost ruins my will to play.  I swear if flares are not effective anymore itll be over for me.  I gotta be able to stay up in a plane or its just pointless.

boo fucking hoo. Selfish bastard...more people play this game for fun than just you.

bslapper wrote:

GAY GAY GAY LAG LAG LAG
thts bout all i wanna say
Erex and Tow weakest in game everything else is way overpowered

LAY LAY LAY GAG GAG GAG

I concur captain!

anyone notice that the blackhawk guns are completely worthless now?  might as well be flying around in the fat cow.  now mashtur is just another ground pounder's map like sharqi or karkand.  i'm not complaining, just an observation.

Last edited by pasngr (2006-02-16 03:22:15)

Mmmmm... PKM.....Mmmmm...Unlimited nades.... I like the patch! You can still kill people, it's not the end of the world. Like I said -- adjust, when you see mines in the middle of the road, have your ONE engineer out of 64 wrench it out while the APC/Tank is cover firing, it's been done and basically the same as before, you just can't chuck C4, bunny-hop or dolphin dive or people bitching about the overpowering planes-- isn't that what we all wanted?? The PKM was adjusted for accuracy, when I play I see no difference otherwise. I like it then and I like it now, just play and have fun.........and chilled.

I have finally played the entire run of maps for the first time.  Perhaps the biggest problem with releasing a huge game changing patch like this on Valentine's Day is that people with wives and girlfriends won't be able to play it in earnest until the next day.

Some observations about the new game play.

1)  Pilots...you REALLY need to stop crying.  I mean seriously.  Perhaps it is harder to stay alive, but on ALL of the maps I played with air, the Jet and Helos were STILL ranking on top.

Some tactics for you from a groundpounder watching them in display last night as he was getting blown into scrap... 

*  Helos now have to fly low to the ground instead of floating at 3,000 feet wasting everyone.  The pilots that ingressed and egressed at 150 ft or so were the ones that were STILL deadly.  Very deadly.

*  Helos now should never stop moving unless they are behind some form of cover.  Becoming stationary makes you a phat target for .50 cal and armor vehicle fire...as it should.

*  If you come under fire from vehicles, dive for the deck and leave the area flying low.  We have to deal with the horizon and other objects in our way, so by diving low, you decrease your profile and make it very difficult for us to shoot down.

* Good jet pilots are avoiding the AA over enemy flag points and only bomb them when they are in the process of being taken by friendly troops.  If they do decide to bomb an enemy flag point, they come in low, fast and from the blocked side of the AA turret.

2)  Support is extremely deadly.  While I didn't find it so deadly that it needed a nerf, there probably needs to be some other concession that Support has to make in exchange for their ability to put down cover fire like a mini-HumVee.  Not being able to sprint or having the weapon overheat quicker are some good starts.  I think everyone is experimenting with them right now, but it will start balancing out as people realize that one kit can not win the game by itself.  My team won a game last night for that exact reason.  They other team had about 15 Support guys out of 30.  We had a better mix with Assault lobbing M203s, Snipers plinking from long distances, and Medics reviving anybody that fell.  They lost the battle on attrition alone.

3)  Snipers are as accurate as they should be, but the SVD and Type-88s increased accuracy now completely trumps the M24 and L96, especially when trying to countersnipe.  I would put the SVD/Type-88s at an accuracy on par with the M24 before the patch.  If you don't kill another sniper with a head shot first using an M24, you will not get another chance.  You can't even run away because the delay in getting from the prone position allows the countersniper using the SVD more than enough times to score 3 hits.  If I were to change anything, I would at least allow the M24/L96 snipers a quicker bolt action animation or allow them to stay in the scopemode while they work the bolt action.

4)  As an Engineer, I think that allowing mines to not be blown up was a big mistake...and that is from an Engineer.  We can completely deny a piece of real estate from people and with proper support, can pretty much hold an area indefinitely.  If I am in armor, I can lay down mines in a perimeter to force other armor into what are essentially kill zones.  They should probably allow mines to be blown up with grenades but increase the number of grenades required to do it the amount of at least 5.  OR....artillery strikes should detonate them.  I did hear a rumor that artillery blew them up, but I didn't see it happen last night.

5)  Due to the increased accuracy of all the weapons, the ground war is deadlier than ever.  Gone are the days of running around with no concern with what was around the corner.  "Bound and Overwatch" tactics are proving to be VERY successful.  The bugs bunnies, Flippers, and C4 flingers are finding out that they were not as good as they thought they were and are hence being annihilated by well working squads.  While one could argue that Spec Ops should be allowed to throw C4 a few feet...the Spec Ops I faced last night seemed to not be having much of a problem destroying my tank.

6)  The fear that armor would be the lords of the battlefields is misplaced.  Mines are everywhere...to the point where driving a tank it is like running through a the backyard of a local dog kennel.  Speeding down the street in a tank or APC is basically ASKING to run over a mine unless you are looking carefully for them.  In being that cautious, it takes away from your situation awareness in finding other threats and targets of opportunity.  I have also noticed a great increase in the amount of AT kits being picked.  I don't know if the damage on the AT kits were tweaked, but I noticed more consistant damage from them to where it takes 3 shots from an AT kit to put a tank in very serious trouble.  By very serious, I mean that a grenade will put them on fire.  Supply crates also have been tweaked to repair damage at a significantly slower rate.  I used to be able to sit on a crate and almost ignore 2 AT troopers.  Now?  I have to either get rid of at least one or run from the area.  I can't remember, but I speculate that the 6th or 7th round or so will either kill me or put me on fire.  Going up against 3 AT kits is now a very risky proposition.  In an APC, the AT kit is even more deadly with the reduced crate repair rate.

That is what I noticed for now.  Thus far...I will have to say that overall, I am happy with the patch.

- Beatdown.

Last edited by Beatdown Patrol (2006-02-16 07:16:45)