BF2S Forums Official patch 1.2 complaint thread.

for all 1.2-haters:

http://www.secretsofbattlefield.com/ode.wmv

Last edited by [pt] KEIOS (2006-02-15 07:54:26)

comet241 wrote:

in my opinion, i think that they destroyed helo's, not so much jets, but those are crap too now. dont even bother getting in a blackhawk, they are waaaaay too slow to dodge anything, and the attack choppers aren't much better off. im a chopper pilot, for all you ground pounders out there: hate me. i have a couple hundred hours in there, but i doubt ill get much more time now. i was getting shot out of the sky left and right last night. my problem is that all the crybabies who dont know how to shoot down a chopper and that bitched and moaned got their way.

before 1.2 it was easy to shoot down a chopper, you just had to know how. 50 cals were very effective. knowing HOW to use a stinger helped too. now it's all just point and click if you're on the ground to take down a chopper, no skill needed. to be honest about the whole thing, im pissed. ground pounders: you can claim victory finally that there will be no more *raping* from the sky, but they took away what i was best at. so to you i say i hope to god on the next patch they make all tanks destroyable with a single pistol round and all other bullets heat seeking and lockable..... that will give you a feeling for what has just happened to all of us chopper pilots that took the time to get good at what we do.

<OGG>Comet241

Sorry Comet, but I beg to differ on several fronts.

The game is supposed to BALANCED and all thing being equal including the SKILLS of the two players, Helos OWN the ground.  A good Helo pilot has too many options available to them to include simply moving out of range and blasting the assailant with a TVGM.  Regardless of the method, the pilot has 4 or 5 times the options of anybody on the ground to avoid dying.  The stats of all these pilots DO NOT LIE.  I could see if all the people bitching about the patch had K/D ratios that were relative to everyone else playing the game, but they are not.  I am looking at these pilots stats and I see combined Star medals in the 600+ range.  Expert badges everywhere.  Kills that number in the 15k - 20k range.  So the one sided effectiveness of air power in BF2 can not be disputed.  What is so pathetic with all this whining is that statistically...there are LESS pilots in the game compared to people on the ground and yet the minority is completely dominating the game.  The reason why you guys are not getting any sympathy is because all the statisical MINORITIES (pilots) are trying to make the assinine claim that 90% of the statistical MAJORITY (everyone else in the damn game) simply don't know how to play and that was the problem.  That is BS and insultive to the intelligence of 95% of the games players.

This is not about realism...it is about GAME BALANCE.  People are using realism as an argument because they can't seem to understand why a .50 cal (the most powerful small arms weapon in the game) must be fired until the barrel smokes and if every bullet hits, the Helo still flies away.  Then they see the news of how insurgents in Iraq where dropping helos with such regularity that the US forces stopped flying them at low altitudes in urban regions.  An AK47 can drops a helo...but you mean to tell me that a .50 cal can't?  The PERCEIVED power of the weapon is what is making people question the balance of the game.  Pre-patch, NO weapon was able to drop the Helos or planes in one hit whereas everything else CAN be killed in one hit with the proper weapon...even tanks which are 10 TIMES more armored than a helo.  Against the TVGM, we would never even know we were being targeted.  No paint or launch warning.  Just BAM!  Dead.

In addition, it is a Catch-22 for the pilots argue about how the game is not supposed to be realistic because the same argument is usable against you.  Since it isn't supposed to be realistic, why do you think that you should "live" more often than anybody else in the game?

Time for you people to wake up and smell the coffee (i.e. - Adapt) or go back to sleep (i.e. - leave the game and go beat up some kindergardeners.)

- Beatdown

i am still very much in the middle of down loading the patch 35% sadly

i am in 2 minds about the new patch for i love my jet flying and i had got good for someone that has only 30 hours in a jet, but it means that new bombing runs that are safe need to be found that is all.

I cannot fly a helo for love nor money i just cannot get to the grips of doing it well but it is very frustrations of how easy they made it for a helo to avoid AA weaponary on the ground and from jets.

My other love is my tank as i am very effective at building the kills up with a tank without base raping unlike most people on karkand, and i do not like the fact that you cannot blow up the mines now where as n RLthisis possible, if someone wants a conferemed killed then they should play with C4.  (and i love the fact you can pick up your C4 now)

I think one of the main reasons to this patch is that there was about 600,000 people that started to play bf2 at the start and they have stuck with bf2 and have got very good at the game, i am now happy in the top 10,000 and i am still happyly slowly moving up.  But since BF2 SF come out there are now a 1.3 million people that are regastered (not all play) and it is the new players that do not have the skill to match up to the people with 50k+ points and the newbies go onto pro servers and they wonder why they get an ass kicking and complain about it.  Hell i remember when i had around 30k points and i was on a server with Blazin (PGT's server) and i was good at the time and i did not get a look in i was nailed with grens from miles away and M203 from the corners of building. I did not bitch about it, hell no they were playing 2 levels over me and hell i had to get better to servive on these servers so that is what i did. and now i can run on the ground and fly the air drive a tank and do they all well and still come out with 35 kills and 5 deaths.

i am sorry but you have to earn the skills to be good and if it now means it is only the really skilled pilots fly coz they make it work then let them fly.  No one has a good round if all they do is die but you have to put in time to get good. 

So if oyu have under 15k points shut up close down the forum and play BF2 for about another 150 hours and then come back and bitch.

i have never been a fan of the Ddive and bunny hopping but everyone does it i know that when i get shot from somewhere i do not know i bash the space bar like a mad man while i run away now is this bunny hopping???? i say no but others will say yes.

i am sure there are good points and bad points to it.  (i think i rambled a bit i am sorry)

[pt] KEIOS wrote:

for all 1.2-haters:

http://www.secretsofbattlefield.com/ode.wmv


:P

:D

Those where the good time's..... [sniff sniff] :(
i prefer bunny hoppers and c4 glitch instead of this SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!

well got a few rounds under my belt last night and found that people were easier to kill. since i was never a bunnyhopper or "prone spammer" it didnt really affect me anyways. and as far as the "noobtube" goes didnt really bother me either since i dont particularly care to have something that explosive at my feet anyways( i prefer the longshot). the sniper rifle (m95) did get a bit more accurate which is something i like and think was a good addition to the patch. as far as the chopper goes yeah its definately more vulnerable and the blackhawks mini guns are dramaticly underpowered now. it will definately make the game more interesting though and the AA... never got to get a chance to use it yet but i have felt the effects of it in a blackhawk. needless to say think they should have left the choppers health alone and only updated the miniguns and AA. I dont get a chance to play alot and i know my stats arent the greatest  but i do my best.

what the hell was the point of improving the support accuracy, i usally play support and i can honestly say there is no point in improving ACCURACY i could shoot people fromfar away anyway, EA just thinks that normal people don't know how to AIM < i learned to AIM and it helpedme

I'm sick of all the people labeling the complainers as either planewhories or bunnyhoppers, I don't like the patch and all I play regularly is infantry, sometimes I'll take the blackhawk to get my squad on a flag but that's pretty much it for my airtime. Also I don't know what servers everyone is on but I stick to MoH and War is hell and I never really had a problem with bunnyhoppers maybe once or twice, and I had never seen dolphin diving before until someone posted that ode movie.

Anyway after a round of bf2 with the patch I have to say I was really dissapointed, the whole going prone and jumping just feels sloppy and unrealiable. Just as an example I was lone and running to cap a flag, one of the ones surrounded by shallow sandbags, well I run up to them and try to jump over and nothing. So I'm stuck fiddling around for a few seconds then I finally get myself over, jump has done this to me a few times I don't know whats different but something is. Also whenever I went prone I would always use jump to get up from it, now that doesn't work half the time anymore, and the delay from getting up from prone is irritating. Also the change in throwing of kits, I never had a problem with it before, why change it, Spec ops its impossible to attack a tank anymore, and whenever I was in a tank previously I never felt  like the odds were against me by the infantry so I don't see why this was changed. As far as jumping and shooting goes, I think it would have been better to just make it very VERY inaccurate but not disable it, the game just feels less smooth with it.

About the support and sniper classes, I think they are overpowered. Before with the sniper kit, it wasn't easy, if you tried and knew where to hide you could easily rake up some kills but it took work I liked that because it discouraged everyone from going sniper. Now everytime I spawn or do anything it seems like I get hit by a sniper and go in to the red. Same problem with support, if you knew how to use it before you could be efffective, now it's just easy to hose down pople, my first try with it I had the MG36 and I was hitting a sniper who was far away trying to get me, ridiculous. Lastly I hope it was just because the patch is new but EVERYONE seemed to be either support or sniper last night.

So there are my gripes, please don't reply with some idiotic flame calling me a noobtuber, bher, or planewhore, generalizing everyone is really getting old.

EDIT: For spelling

Last edited by Khadgar323 (2006-02-15 09:37:47)

Brickhaus wrote:

DU wrote:

PAYBACK TIME JET WHORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too poor to afford a joystick and/or got no skills with the mouse and keyboard? I hope your family dies of poverty and/or cancer. <3

wtf ?? watch it m8. first and only warning...

Khadgar323 wrote:

I'm sick of all the people labeling the complainers as either planewhories or bunnyhoppers, I don't like the patch and all I play regularly is infantry, sometimes I'll take the blackhawk to get my squad on a flag but that's pretty much it for my airtime. Also I don't know what servers everyone is on but I stick to MoH and War is hell and I never really had a problem with bunnyhoppers maybe once or twice, and I had never seen dolphin diving before until someone posted that ode movie.

Anyway after a round of bf2 with the patch I have to say I was really dissapointed, the whole going prone and jumping just feels sloppy and unrealiable. Just as an example I was lone and running to cap a flag, one of the ones surrounded by shallow sandbags, well I run up to them and try to jump over and nothing. So I'm stuck fiddling around for a few seconds then I finally get myself over, jump has done this to me a few times I don't know whats different but something is. Also whenever I went prone I would always use jump to get up from it, now that doesn't work half the time anymore, and the delay from getting up from prone is irritating. Also the change in throwing of kits, I never had a problem with it before, why change it, Spec ops its impossible to attack a tank anymore, and whenever I was in a tank previously I never felt  like the odds were against me by the infantry so I don't see why this was changed. As far as jumping and shooting goes, I think it would have been better to just make it very VERY inaccurate but not disable it, the game just feels less smooth with it.

About the support and sniper classes, I think they are overpowered. Before with the sniper kit, it wasn't easy, if you tried and knew where to hide you could easily rake up some kills but it took work I liked that because it discouraged everyone from going sniper. Now everytime I spawn or do anything it seems like I get hit by a sniper and go in to the red. Same problem with support, if you knew how to use it before you could be efffective, now it's just easy to hose down pople, my first try with it I had the MG36 and I was hitting a sniper who was far away trying to get me, ridiculous. Lastly I hope it was just because the patch is new but EVERYONE seemed to be either support or sniper last night.

So there are my gripes, please don't reply with some idiotic flame calling me a noobtuber, bher, or planewhore, generalizing everyone is really getting old.

EDIT: For spelling

There ARE some things that infantry are going to have to get used to...myself included.  Jumping on tanks to lay a mine is VERY difficult now because you have to wait a half second to actually drop the mine.  That usually ends up getting me killed.  Thus far, I have not yet been able to lay a mine on an APC at all because you can not jump up and lay the mine on the back.  Since I can't detonate the mine with a grenade, it means that the APC driver will have to be a total boob to be killed by a mine.  The flip side is that unless a team has an engineer, total denial of certain routes will be a problem.  As a tanker, I didn't really mind Spec Ops throwing C4 because it did give them a deadly means of disposing of me...however it was the abusers that ruined it for everyone.  You know them...mid-air detonations, throwing them as far as grenades, etc.  I don't play Spec Ops often, but I think the better solution would have been to allow specific tossing distance regardless of the person jumping or not.  I also agree...making weapons grossly inaccurate while jumping would have seemed to be a more logical choice than removing the ability to fire at all.  Either than or increasing the hit bubble for people who do jump.

Sniper and Support kits are completely sick when it comes to accuracy.  Looking into the future, I see people switching to those two kits as primaries with the medic kit as a secondary.  I plinked some people last night with sniper shots that should have been misses, IMHO.  Support weapons are BULLET HOSES with sustained fire rates and accuracy that should frighten those who have not yet played the new patch.  I actually consider Support to be more deadly than vehicle weapons because a trooper is harder to see until you are dead.  In general, I noticed that it is much easier to die on the ground to small arms fire opposed to before the patch.  You can throw a grenade about half a football field which makes them more useful but then much easier to die from running along and getting blasted by a random grenade.

With respect to pilots, it would have been better for the accuracy of the missiles to depend on the aspect of the target so that shots to the 3 and 9 'o clock positions have a greater chance of missing and shots that are more to the 12 and 6 'o clock positions will have a greater chance to hit.  Giving pilots a properly working Radar Warning Reciever (RWR) would be even better to help them figure out who fired and where the shot is coming from.  That would give the pilots more options to position themselves to have the missile miss rather than force pilots to use their flares and hope for the best.

The current jump mechanism needs some getting used to and feels...strange...after having the ability to go from standing to prone and back in .2 seconds.  I am sure that I will be able to adjust, but it is going to take some time.

- Beatdown

[pt] KEIOS wrote:

http://www.secretsofbattlefield.com/ode.wmv

Proves how many wankers there are on the game.

comet241 wrote:

ok, here is where i beg to differ. people were complaining about how the game was unrealistic, so ea tried to make the game more realistic by cock-blocking the choppers and jets..... however, if you look at real life, jets and choppers rule the battlefield. if we are going to go for perfect realism here, my helo should be able to tow missile a tank from 2.5 miles away, larger than any map out there currently.... that isn't the case. so thats why we balance things. its a circle of life here. helo's take out tanks and apc's with no warning, helo's get shot down by 50 cals and rocket launchers, and tanks take out those pricks mounting the guns and wielding the shoulder mounted rocket launcher..... however, now the game is unbalanced. it is now too easy to take down a chopper, meaning that soon we will see that the tanks and apcs will rule the battlefield. especially too since you can no longer chuck c4, even over a wall to get a tank sitting right next to you. as i said earlier, the next patch might as well destroy the effectiveness of tanks and apcs because they are soon to be the next jets and helo's as far as "raping" goes. if that still isn't fair enough for you, why dont you take away everyone's armor, guns, arty, jeeps, helos, and jets and give everyone a loincloth and a spear... that will make it even, eh? i agree that in some cases the jets and helo's were too powerful. however, this is going too far. they needed to reduce their effectiveness, not eliminate it completely.

Then I would look at this patch as a measuring stick to how much the aircraft need to be tweaked in the next patch.  However, I speculate that pilots are going to adjust their lofty expectations on being able to unanswerably rape the battlefield before that happens.   Let's see where we are then.

Everyone's so called "realistic perception" of air power is so misplaced, it is laughable.  I am sure that it is because they saw the US Air Force and Navy's absolute destruction of Iraq...who were using weapons technology that was 20 years out of date.  What we did to Iraq, Bosnia, and to the Taliban in Afghanistan would not be possible against modern nations like the EU, China, or even the former Soviet Union today.  During the Cold War, the Soviet Bloc nations had DEADLY accurate SAM sites eeeeeeverywhere.  Whereas a SAM would miss the first time around, 2 and 3 SAMs would be in the air at the same time from different launchers.  You had better believe that the 2nd or 3rd SAM site would not miss.  Air power does not OWN in real life where the "playing field" is level in regard to technology and defenses.  Real pilots from past wars will tell you that.  The FIM-92 Stinger missile was the sole reason why the Soviets were unable to effectively use air power during the Afghanistan War.  Stingers got their nasty reputation from the Afghanistani Mujahideen who were blasting helos and low flying aircraft out of the sky with deadly regularity.  In a perfect world, I would have liked EA to make a AA-Stinger kit FAR more that lowering the HP on the Helos.  People would have bitched about that too.

- Beatdown

Last edited by Beatdown Patrol (2006-02-15 10:56:05)

balleklorin wrote:

General_CoLin_Tassi wrote:

Heli pilots didn't have it easy. They have to watch out for enemy planes, tanks, jeeps, attack heli's, AT, AA. And hey, I'm not whining. I'm giving an informed view from being an all round player. I fight on the ground and in the air and hence understand about the balance needed in the game. I say again, AA did and has been vastly improved. Yeah! Now we can shoot down jets and heli's. Messing with air vehicles wasn't really needed. Its a two fold reduction for airpower. EA might aswell lower the tank amour. In fact, lets change the TOW's warhead for a nuclear one because tank and APC's take more than one shot. lol.

Heli pilots had it easy, just watch their avarage score. Pilots almost never died. They didnt have to care for  tank, AT or AA thats pure bull. Planes and other helis were the threats (and cars if they were two together).

The tank armour is a good balance against infantery the same with APC's. Which you also can tell from watching their avarage K/D ratio in a game. You just cant stand that your favorite vehicle now has opponents.

My Favourite vehicle has always had its opponents as i've stated earlier. Obviously you think that the air vehicles were so easy that any noob can get in and own in a game. I think not. I agree that the jets were hard to combat from the ground and hence with the new and improved AA things have changed. But oh no, not just happy to improve the AA, lets f with the air vehicles aswell. As you said earlier, you expect to shoot down a plane or heli with one shot. Noobish. LOL

The vehicles in BF2 make this game great. If you don't like airpower, tanks or any other vehicle, go play Quake 4 or Counter Strike.