This outta to turn out well. Iran to send blockade-busting ship.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
The hell is a blockade-buster, a cargo ship full of explosives?
Overall it sounds like another one of Iran's 'let's be a dick and make it worse' moves.
Overall it sounds like another one of Iran's 'let's be a dick and make it worse' moves.
I for one would be okay with Israel sinking the Iranian boats.
The bluster. The elections. The religious police.
I mean, the economy is a daily hell. Why wait until the recovery to fuck it up again?
The bluster. The elections. The religious police.
I mean, the economy is a daily hell. Why wait until the recovery to fuck it up again?
Yea... This is vintage Iran.
@ATG. I'd be fine with that too. Go Israel! Side note: Rhombo is probably going to quit. OB's policy toward Israel a factor???
@ATG. I'd be fine with that too. Go Israel! Side note: Rhombo is probably going to quit. OB's policy toward Israel a factor???
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Preventing Hamas from getting the supplies it needs to attack Israel IS self-defense, Dilbert. Pretty simplistic, tbh. Nothing illegal about it.Dilbert_X wrote:
If you want to do anything besides immediate self-defence you're supposed to deal with it through the UN.FEOS wrote:
Wrong. Being a member of the UN does not mean subjugating your country's own sovereignty.Dilbert_X wrote:
You're supposed to put issues before the UN, not unilaterally carry out acts.
Hence the Israelis blockade of Gaza is illegal.
Seems simple enough.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
So why did the US feel the need to go to the UN to get a blockade and sanctions put in place over Iraq?FEOS wrote:
Preventing Hamas from getting the supplies it needs to attack Israel IS self-defense, Dilbert. Pretty simplistic, tbh. Nothing illegal about it.Dilbert_X wrote:
If you want to do anything besides immediate self-defence you're supposed to deal with it through the UN.FEOS wrote:
Wrong. Being a member of the UN does not mean subjugating your country's own sovereignty.
Hence the Israelis blockade of Gaza is illegal.
They could have just shot down every aircraft and sunk every ship approaching Iraq.
Problem is pasta isn't a weapon, the Israelis are blockading the entire population, not just Hamas, so its illegal and a war crime.Seems simple enough.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Yeah, because Hamas have segregated themselves separately from the general population. It's not like they shoot rockets from schools, hospitals, and private homes of civilians. They clearly wear easily identifiable uniforms, assemble in non-civilian areas, and only engage military targets...Dilbert_X wrote:
Problem is pasta isn't a weapon, the Israelis are blockading the entire population, not just Hamas, so its illegal and a war crime.
Doesn't matter, actions which indiscriminately punish the population are illegal.Ilocano wrote:
Yeah, because Hamas have segregated themselves separately from the general population. It's not like they shoot rockets from schools, hospitals, and private homes of civilians. They clearly wear easily identifiable uniforms, assemble in non-civilian areas, and only engage military targets...Dilbert_X wrote:
Problem is pasta isn't a weapon, the Israelis are blockading the entire population, not just Hamas, so its illegal and a war crime.
Or Hamas' actions are legal, take your pick - you can't have it both ways.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Because doing that would've prevented all goods/aid from arriving into Iraq, which was not the intent, just as it isn't the intent of the Israelis to prevent everything from getting into Gaza.Dilbert_X wrote:
So why did the US feel the need to go to the UN to get a blockade and sanctions put in place over Iraq?FEOS wrote:
Preventing Hamas from getting the supplies it needs to attack Israel IS self-defense, Dilbert. Pretty simplistic, tbh. Nothing illegal about it.Dilbert_X wrote:
If you want to do anything besides immediate self-defence you're supposed to deal with it through the UN.
Hence the Israelis blockade of Gaza is illegal.
They could have just shot down every aircraft and sunk every ship approaching Iraq.
And Israel isn't keeping pasta from getting into Gaza, Dilbert. Nice hyperbole. They are not blockading the entire population, they are blockading a region to prevent certain items from getting into Gaza for use by Hamas. Once the aid shipments are sanitized of those items, the goods are sent through...to include pasta.Dilbert_X wrote:
Problem is pasta isn't a weapon, the Israelis are blockading the entire population, not just Hamas, so its illegal and a war crime.Seems simple enough.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Thats the thing, the Israelis say their intent is one thing but often it isn't.FEOS wrote:
Because doing that would've prevented all goods/aid from arriving into Iraq, which was not the intent, just as it isn't the intent of the Israelis to prevent everything from getting into Gaza.
Except they have been blockading pasta for the past 3 years.And Israel isn't keeping pasta from getting into Gaza, Dilbert. Nice hyperbole. They are not blockading the entire population, they are blockading a region to prevent certain items from getting into Gaza for use by Hamas. Once the aid shipments are sanitized of those items, the goods are sent through...to include pasta.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne … e-1.297327"It would have been correct to alter the old policy [on the siege] even if there was no flotilla," a senior official in Netanyahu's office said. "The new policy will prevent absurd situations like preventing the import of pasta into the Gaza Strip and bolster Israel's ability to maintain the security siege vis-a-vis the world, and it will aid the moral position of Israel, which demands the release of Gilad Shalit."
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World- … 3115232513Equally absurd are the arbitrary distinctions Israel is making between what is allowed in and what is not. Rice is okay. Pasta is not.
The reasons given are partly security related. Israel has not allowed in one bag of cement this year because it says it could be used to build Hamas bunkers, even though 15,000 homes were destroyed by Israel's offensive in January.
Why would they block pasta? Not allow one single bag of cement?
Its collective punishment, unrelated to normal military objectives, plain and simple.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-23 19:15:38)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
ORLY?Dilbert_X wrote:
Thats the thing, the Israelis say their intent is one thing but often it isn't.
From your own source...hell, from your own quote box...
"It would have been correct to alter the old policy [on the siege] even if there was no flotilla," a senior official in Netanyahu's office said. "The new policy will prevent absurd situations like preventing the import of pasta into the Gaza Strip and bolster Israel's ability to maintain the security siege vis-a-vis the world, and it will aid the moral position of Israel, which demands the release of Gilad Shalit."
The pasta makes no sense, hence why they said so and are correcting their approach from a white list to a black list approach. The cement block has been explained, and apparently the UN agrees with the logic, because they are watching cement and other dual-use building materials like a hawk from intake to use to ensure they aren't used for military purposes.Dilbert_X wrote:
Why would they block pasta? Not allow one single bag of cement?
Its collective punishment, unrelated to normal military objectives, plain and simple.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Fixed. I don't think democracy has much to do with it. For example, we're pretty close with Saudi Arabia, and they certainly aren't a democracy or a republic.FEOS wrote:
If you are a democracy, capitalism, your long-term national interests align with countries like the US's.
It's about money. We have the firepower to protect your economic interests, and we also can use this power to fuck over your interests if we don't like you.
Last edited by Turquoise (2010-06-23 20:52:46)
Which they are now doing due to outside pressure, the ban on pasta was in place for three years, not because its the right thing to do.FEOS wrote:
The pasta makes no sense, hence why they said so and are correcting their approach from a white list to a black list approach.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X wrote:
Which they are now doing due to outside pressure, the ban on pasta was in place for three years, not because its the right thing to do.FEOS wrote:
The pasta makes no sense, hence why they said so and are correcting their approach from a white list to a black list approach.
Do you even bother to read your own quote boxes?"It would have been correct to alter the old policy [on the siege] even if there was no flotilla," a senior official in Netanyahu's office said. "The new policy will prevent absurd situations like preventing the import of pasta into the Gaza Strip and bolster Israel's ability to maintain the security siege vis-a-vis the world, and it will aid the moral position of Israel, which demands the release of Gilad Shalit."
Read the NSS. It has everything to do with democratic forms of government. Alliances with others (like Saudi) are associated with other national interests (like resources).Turq wrote:
Fixed. I don't think democracy has much to do with it. For example, we're pretty close with Saudi Arabia, and they certainly aren't a democracy or a republic.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
They had no plans to rectify the "absurd situations", they had been in place for three years and were only removed due to intense pressure from the rest of the world as a result of the aid convoy.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
So now you can see inside their brains? The truth is you (nor anyone else) have no idea what they were planning to do or not to do prior to the flotilla incident.Dilbert_X wrote:
They had no plans to rectify the "absurd situations", they had been in place for three years and were only removed due to intense pressure from the rest of the world as a result of the aid convoy.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Then you show that they were planning to change the situation prior to the flotilla.
Its clear they weren't, and it took a lot of pressure to force their hand.
Its clear they weren't, and it took a lot of pressure to force their hand.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
I'm not the one making the claim to know their inner thoughts, Dilbert.Dilbert_X wrote:
Then you show that they were planning to change the situation prior to the flotilla.
Its clear they weren't, and it took a lot of pressure to force their hand.
It's not clear at all, as it can't be known what they intended to do or not do. But as I don't have an "autohate Israel" function enabled, I can be a bit more objective about it than you can.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
The world has been pressing this for years with no movement by the Israelis.
If you're saying the Israelis were planning to change the blockade and the aid flotilla was a coincidence please put forward something which supports that.wiki wrote:
On January 24, 2008, the United Nations Human Rights Council released a statement calling for Israel to lift its siege on the Gaza Strip, allow the continued supply of food, fuel, and medicine, and reopen border crossings. According to the Jerusalem Post, this was the 15th time in less than two years the council condemned Israel for its human rights record regarding the Palestinian territories. The proceedings were boycotted by Israel and the United States. Prior to this, U.N. Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs, John Holmes, described the blockade as "collective punishment", saying, "We all understand the security problems and the need to respond to that but collective punishment of the people of Gaza is not, we believe, the appropriate way to do that."
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Can you not fucking read?Dilbert_X wrote:
If you're saying the Israelis were planning to change the blockade and the aid flotilla was a coincidence please put forward something which supports that.
I'm not saying any such thing. BECAUSE I DON'T CLAIM TO BE CLAIRFUCKINGVOYANT. Unlike some others here (you).
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
FEOS wrote:
Can you not fucking read?Dilbert_X wrote:
If you're saying the Israelis were planning to change the blockade and the aid flotilla was a coincidence please put forward something which supports that.
I'm not saying any such thing. BECAUSE I DON'T CLAIM TO BE CLAIRFUCKINGVOYANT. Unlike some others here (you).
They aren't correcting it because it makes no sense, they're correcting it because they're being forced to.FEOS wrote:
The pasta makes no sense, hence why they said so and are correcting their approach from a white list to a black list approach.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X wrote:
They aren't correcting it because it makes no sense, they're correcting it because they're being forced to.
Couldn't find a way to make it flash.FEOS wrote:
Do you even bother to read your own quote boxes?"It would have been correct to alter the old policy [on the siege] even if there was no flotilla," a senior official in Netanyahu's office said. "The new policy will prevent absurd situations like preventing the import of pasta into the Gaza Strip and bolster Israel's ability to maintain the security siege vis-a-vis the world, and it will aid the moral position of Israel, which demands the release of Gilad Shalit."
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Thats the funny thing you don't get.FEOS wrote:
even if there was no flotilla
- The policy stays in place for three years "It's like an appointment with a dietician. The Palestinians will get a lot thinner, but won't die."
- The Israelis won't budge on it, despite intense international pressure
- The flotilla happens
- The Israelis are exposed to international opprobrium
- Within days the Israelis capitulate and allow Gaza to import pasta
And you believe its just coincidence, because the Israelis tell you it is.
Still, seems the Turkish are pissed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10432903.stm
Turkey has barred an Israeli military flight from Turkish airspace, in apparent retaliation for Israel's raid on an aid convoy bound for Gaza.
Turkey's prime minister confirmed that a "ban" had been implemented following the 31 May raid, in which nine Turkish citizens on the flotilla were killed.
Military flight bans are now being considered on a case-by-case basis, Turkish officials said.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Some perspective
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/op … 5884911692
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/op … 5884911692
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
I never said I believe it's just coincidence.
I just never claimed to know what they are thinking. They are admitting it was a stupid policy that needed to be addressed even if there was no flotilla. Even when they admit they are wrong, you still piss all over them.
I just never claimed to know what they are thinking. They are admitting it was a stupid policy that needed to be addressed even if there was no flotilla. Even when they admit they are wrong, you still piss all over them.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular