Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England
What's in the Fine Print

Key parts of the Senate bill and where it differs from the House version
Consumers

Senate version

    * Consolidates responsibilities from seven agencies into a Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection within the Federal Reserve system to oversee products made available to consumers
    * Limits ability of mortgage lenders to assess penalities on borrowers who pay off the loan early
    * Prohibits paying brokers and loan officers more to steer borrowers to higher interest rates or certain risky features; commissions would be based on the size or number of loans originated

How House bill differs

    * Oversight would be independent of the Fed and exclude insurance companies, auto dealers and accountants, among others

Investors

Senate version

    * Creates Investment Advisory Committee within Securities and Exchange Commission
    * Creates Office of Investor Advocate within SEC to identify problems in dealing with SEC and provide assistance
    * Gives SEC the authority to grant shareholders proxy access to nominate directors
    * Requires directors to win by majority vote in uncontested elections
    * Gives shareholders the right to nonbinding vote on executive pay, excluding golden parachutes

How the house bill differs

    * Would require institutions with assets of at least $1 billion to disclose to regulators the structures of all incentive-based compensation

Banks

Senate version

    * Eliminates Office of Thrift Supervision
    * Federal Reserve Board would keep oversight of largest bank holding companies
    * State banks and holding companies would either be regulated by the Fed or FDIC
    * National banks with less than $50 billion in assets would be under Office of the Comptroller of the Currency
    * Banks would be generally barred from using their own capital to engage in speculative trades

How the house bill differs

    * Preserves the Fed's and FDIC's bank-supervision roles; calls for OTS to be absorbed by the OCC

Markets

Senate version

    * Hedge Funds: Requires investment advisers of hedge funds with $100 million or more in assets to register with the SEC
    * Derivatives: Requires that many derivatives and over the- counter financial products be traded on regulated platforms
    * Securitizations : Requires companies that package loans into marketable securities to hold at least 5% of the credit risk
    * Requires issuers to disclose more information about and analyze the quality of underlying assets

How the house bill differs

    * Applies to funds with assets of $150 million or more; exempts venture-capital funds
    * Exempts many end users from mandatory central clearing
    * Exempts education, agriculture, veterans and small-business loans

Insurers

Senate version

    * Creates Office of National Insurance within Treasury to monitor industry, recommending to the systemic-risk council insurers that should be treated as systemically important
    * Office would recommend ways to modernize insurance regulation, but it is explicitly not a new regulator

How the house bill differs

    * Proposes creation of a Federal Insurance Office with similar characteristics

Other Elements

Senate version

    * Creates office at SEC to administer credit rating agencies' rules and practices
    * Creates Financial Stability Oversight Council, led by Treasury secretary, with nine voting members. Agency would identify systemic risks to the economy, promote market discipline and respond to emerging risks. It would also write regulations for risk-based capital, leverage and liquidity requirements

How the house bill differs

    * Also creates seven-member advisory board for credit raters
    * Large firms would pay into a $150 billion fund to manage the dissolution of failing firms considered systemically significant
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 … 75906.html

SURPRISE! I actually agree with the bill in most respects. I especially like the wording that requires a company to possess 5% of the financial instruments it creates on its own books. This precludes them from creating and selling complete rubbish.

What I heartily dislike is the extra power that was granted to the Federal Reserve. The Fed has become essentially the fourth branch of government and is entirely beholden to the political will of the ruling party. Politicize economics and everyone loses. (On a side note, I love the way the Brits have set up their government with the Exchequer responsible for setting budgets instead of a bunch of lawyers beholden to special interests. Are they able to set tax rates as well? We need an accounting office that sets tax rates so they aren't politicized and we don't have our massive spending/income gap in government)

While I dislike the fact that extra regulation means extra costs for doing business, my faith in the market to regulate itself has been shaken recently and they've brought it upon themselves by focusing far too much on short term gains at the expense of the long term. If only our government would do the same and regulate itself into some semblance of reality in regards to financing itself via debt at the expense of future growth. Maybe in November it will finally change
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6866|the dank(super) side of Oregon

JohnG@lt wrote:

...and they've brought it upon themselves by focusing far too much on short term gains at the expense of the long term.
What else would they focus on?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Reciprocity wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

...and they've brought it upon themselves by focusing far too much on short term gains at the expense of the long term.
What else would they focus on?
Long term growth. It's not as sexy and doesn't lead to as much money in the short run but it's sustainable and not bubblicious. The problem is that corporate executives are all mercenaries in this country jumping from company to company with little to no loyalty. Because of this, they have no reason to focus on growth that they'll in all likelihood never see come to fruition. Watching the stock price of the company has become the name of the game which is why I will never take any future company I start public.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5871

JohnG@lt wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

...and they've brought it upon themselves by focusing far too much on short term gains at the expense of the long term.
What else would they focus on?
Long term growth. It's not as sexy and doesn't lead to as much money in the short run but it's sustainable and not bubblicious. The problem is that corporate executives are all mercenaries in this country jumping from company to company with little to no loyalty. Because of this, they have no reason to focus on growth that they'll in all likelihood never see come to fruition. Watching the stock price of the company has become the name of the game which is why I will never take any future company I start public.
Why focus on slow growth in one company when I can make a boatload and retire or make a boatload and jump somewhere else to make another boatload?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6936|USA
Change we can believe in?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:


What else would they focus on?
Long term growth. It's not as sexy and doesn't lead to as much money in the short run but it's sustainable and not bubblicious. The problem is that corporate executives are all mercenaries in this country jumping from company to company with little to no loyalty. Because of this, they have no reason to focus on growth that they'll in all likelihood never see come to fruition. Watching the stock price of the company has become the name of the game which is why I will never take any future company I start public.
Why focus on slow growth in one company when I can make a boatload and retire or make a boatload and jump somewhere else to make another boatload?
Precisely my point. That's the mentality that drives bubbles and leads to the horrific crashes that we've seen in the past fifteen years. It also led to negative growth for the 00s decade. Sure, you made a nice profit personally but you screwed everyone else to get it. It's become a game of adding as much risk to your company as possible, drive the stock price up, bail and cash out before it crashes and then move onto another company and rinse and repeat. Again, this is the primary reason I will never take a company public. I won't have to deal with these vultures.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5871

JohnG@lt wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Long term growth. It's not as sexy and doesn't lead to as much money in the short run but it's sustainable and not bubblicious. The problem is that corporate executives are all mercenaries in this country jumping from company to company with little to no loyalty. Because of this, they have no reason to focus on growth that they'll in all likelihood never see come to fruition. Watching the stock price of the company has become the name of the game which is why I will never take any future company I start public.
Why focus on slow growth in one company when I can make a boatload and retire or make a boatload and jump somewhere else to make another boatload?
Precisely my point. That's the mentality that drives bubbles and leads to the horrific crashes that we've seen in the past fifteen years. It also led to negative growth for the 00s decade. Sure, you made a nice profit personally but you screwed everyone else to get it. It's become a game of adding as much risk to your company as possible, drive the stock price up, bail and cash out before it crashes and then move onto another company and rinse and repeat. Again, this is the primary reason I will never take a company public. I won't have to deal with these vultures.
So whenever I work I should have the best interest of others on my mind? Fucking ironic coming from a person calling themselves John Galt and posting threads against empathy.
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6866|the dank(super) side of Oregon

JohnG@lt wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

...and they've brought it upon themselves by focusing far too much on short term gains at the expense of the long term.
What else would they focus on?
The problem is that corporate executives are all mercenaries in this country jumping from company to company with little to no loyalty.
That's what modern capitalism is.  That's what wall street is.  Everyone's in it for their commission.  They're the douche bags who say, "I eat what I kill."  But don't hate them, they're simply a natural manifestation of our society.

I'm surprised this honor and integrity, long term growth fantasy still exists.  There's no real money in it.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Macbeth wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Macbeth wrote:


Why focus on slow growth in one company when I can make a boatload and retire or make a boatload and jump somewhere else to make another boatload?
Precisely my point. That's the mentality that drives bubbles and leads to the horrific crashes that we've seen in the past fifteen years. It also led to negative growth for the 00s decade. Sure, you made a nice profit personally but you screwed everyone else to get it. It's become a game of adding as much risk to your company as possible, drive the stock price up, bail and cash out before it crashes and then move onto another company and rinse and repeat. Again, this is the primary reason I will never take a company public. I won't have to deal with these vultures.
So whenever I work I should have the best interest of others on my mind? Fucking ironic coming from a person calling themselves John Galt and posting threads against empathy.
It is ironic, but it also shows that he has foresight.

Lack of foresight among the financial sector is most of the reason for our periodic crashes to begin with.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Reciprocity wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

What else would they focus on?
The problem is that corporate executives are all mercenaries in this country jumping from company to company with little to no loyalty.
That's what modern capitalism is.  That's what wall street is.  Everyone's in it for their commission.  They're the douche bags who say, "I eat what I kill."  But don't hate them, they're simply a natural manifestation of our society.

I'm surprised this honor and integrity, long term growth fantasy still exists.  There's no real money in it.
It doesn't currently exist, but with the right regulations, it essentially can become the only choice investors have.

Capitalism doesn't have to be crony capitalism in its implementation, but it requires that the public understand what a reasonable amount of regulation is.

Ending all bailouts is also a good start.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-05-22 14:26:15)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Macbeth wrote:


Why focus on slow growth in one company when I can make a boatload and retire or make a boatload and jump somewhere else to make another boatload?
Precisely my point. That's the mentality that drives bubbles and leads to the horrific crashes that we've seen in the past fifteen years. It also led to negative growth for the 00s decade. Sure, you made a nice profit personally but you screwed everyone else to get it. It's become a game of adding as much risk to your company as possible, drive the stock price up, bail and cash out before it crashes and then move onto another company and rinse and repeat. Again, this is the primary reason I will never take a company public. I won't have to deal with these vultures.
So whenever I work I should have the best interest of others on my mind? Fucking ironic coming from a person calling themselves John Galt and posting threads against empathy.
A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind. It's an interconnected web based entirely on trades conducted between individuals or companies. Just like society has rules and laws designed to prevent one individual willfully harming another person, those rules also extend to business. You can't go on a murderous rampage without consequences and you shouldn't be allowed to drive up a companies stock, cash out and leave smoking ruins behind you without consequences. I'm a libertarian, not an anarchist.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Reciprocity wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:


What else would they focus on?
The problem is that corporate executives are all mercenaries in this country jumping from company to company with little to no loyalty.
That's what modern capitalism is.  That's what wall street is.  Everyone's in it for their commission.  They're the douche bags who say, "I eat what I kill."  But don't hate them, they're simply a natural manifestation of our society.

I'm surprised this honor and integrity, long term growth fantasy still exists.  There's no real money in it.
Warren Buffet would like to show you otherwise. It's called smart growth based on eliminating as much risk as possible. Quick growth requires massive amounts of risk. Sadly, he seems to be an aberration. What he does is not difficult, it just requires adequate risk analysis coupled with patience. This flies in the face of every business school graduate with dreams of getting rich quick and retiring early.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6866|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Turquoise wrote:

Ending all bailouts is also a good start.
what's worse?  bailing out companies or allowing companies to grow so large that they cannot fail without potentially destroying the economy?  ending bailouts is fine as long as regulations exist negate their necessity.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5871

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.
WAT

Give me your copy of Atlas Shrugged so I may hit you with it.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Reciprocity wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Ending all bailouts is also a good start.
what's worse?  bailing out companies or allowing companies to grow so large that they cannot fail without potentially destroying the economy?  ending bailouts is fine as long as regulations exist negate their necessity.
If you're suggesting that we should make antitrust laws more comprehensive and ban derivatives, then I would agree.
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6866|the dank(super) side of Oregon

JohnG@lt wrote:

Warren Buffet would like to show you otherwise...Sadly, he seems to be an aberration.
yes, exactly.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.

JohnG@lt wrote:

A little newsflash for ya, capitalism only works when you have the interest of others on your mind.
WAT

Give me your copy of Atlas Shrugged so I may hit you with it.
I chose this name because I had just read the book and every other name I could think of was taken in BF2. Atlas Shrugged is not my bible.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Macbeth wrote:

Give me your copy of Atlas Shrugged so I may hit you with it.
What Galt is saying is the difference between Ayn Rand and the truth.

The truth is that a certain amount of rational self-interest is caring about the fate of others.  Another truth is that Ayn Rand was a fanatic for the capitalist cause primarily because her early experiences with the Soviet Union's other extreme seemed to have affected her ability to rationally assess economics and government in general.

We don't need the capitalist extreme or the communist one.  The happy medium is a mixed economy with a fiscally responsible government.  Unfortunately, that balance is hard to maintain.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-05-22 14:38:43)

Reciprocity
Member
+721|6866|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Turquoise wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Ending all bailouts is also a good start.
what's worse?  bailing out companies or allowing companies to grow so large that they cannot fail without potentially destroying the economy?  ending bailouts is fine as long as regulations exist negate their necessity.
If you're suggesting that we should make antitrust laws more comprehensive and ban derivatives, then I would agree.
you make it sound so red, so socialist.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Reciprocity wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Warren Buffet would like to show you otherwise...Sadly, he seems to be an aberration.
yes, exactly.
He also feels the same way I do about taking stock public. He's only very recently been listed on the NYSE after the Burlington acquisition. He likes being at the mercy of the whims of idiots about as much as I do
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Reciprocity wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

what's worse?  bailing out companies or allowing companies to grow so large that they cannot fail without potentially destroying the economy?  ending bailouts is fine as long as regulations exist negate their necessity.
If you're suggesting that we should make antitrust laws more comprehensive and ban derivatives, then I would agree.
you make it sound so red, so socialist.
Perhaps... 
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


If you're suggesting that we should make antitrust laws more comprehensive and ban derivatives, then I would agree.
you make it sound so red, so socialist.
Perhaps... 
Banning derivatives is silly. As I said in another thread, you might as well ban health, auto, homeowners and hurricane insurance as well. This legislation is a nice happy medium that requires the company that writes the derivatives to maintain 5% of them on its books.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:


you make it sound so red, so socialist.
Perhaps... 
Banning derivatives is silly. As I said in another thread, you might as well ban health, auto, homeowners and hurricane insurance as well. This legislation is a nice happy medium that requires the company that writes the derivatives to maintain 5% of them on its books.
I think 50% would be a better standard.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5871

Turquoise wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Give me your copy of Atlas Shrugged so I may hit you with it.
What Galt is saying is the difference between Ayn Rand and the truth.

The truth is that a certain amount of rational self-interest is caring about the fate of others.  Another truth is that Ayn Rand was a fanatic for the capitalist cause primarily because her early experiences with the Soviet Union's other extreme seemed to have affected her ability to rationally assess economics and government in general.

We don't need the capitalist extreme nor the communist one.  The happy medium is a mixed economy with a fiscally responsible government.  Unfortunately, that balance is hard to maintain.
Rand's love of capitalism had a bit to do with philosophical morality also. Something about the powerful and strong not having to curb their actions to please or help the powerless and weak. Got her wet, gets me hard.

Galt wrote:

I chose this name because I had just read the book and every other name I could think of was taken in BF2. Atlas Shrugged is not my bible.
I mean hell, I named myself Macbeth but at least I agreed with the main character and was able to comprehend the source material.

Last edited by Macbeth (2010-05-22 14:41:57)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Macbeth wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Give me your copy of Atlas Shrugged so I may hit you with it.
What Galt is saying is the difference between Ayn Rand and the truth.

The truth is that a certain amount of rational self-interest is caring about the fate of others.  Another truth is that Ayn Rand was a fanatic for the capitalist cause primarily because her early experiences with the Soviet Union's other extreme seemed to have affected her ability to rationally assess economics and government in general.

We don't need the capitalist extreme nor the communist one.  The happy medium is a mixed economy with a fiscally responsible government.  Unfortunately, that balance is hard to maintain.
Rand's love of capitalism had a bit to do with philosophical morality also. Something about the powerful and strong not having to curb their actions to please or help the powerless and weak. Got her wet, gets me hard.

I mean hell, I named myself Macbeth but at least I agreed with the main character and was able to comprehend the source material.
Nothing about disregarding the weak gets me hard.  It does get me somewhat angry though.

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