and a hell of a lot to do with post-colonialism.
which is the fault of who...
which is the fault of who...
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
I blame everything on the ottoman empire.
Tu Stultus Es
i would say most places in this world are post-col.....yet they arent fucked up like that. why is that?Uzique wrote:
and a hell of a lot to do with post-colonialism.
which is the fault of who...
Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-06-30 07:40:09)
When we talk of the post-col's that gained independence in C20 then a lot of them are in Africa/ME.11 Bravo wrote:
i would say most places in this world are post-col.....yet they arent fucked up like that. why is that?Uzique wrote:
and a hell of a lot to do with post-colonialism.
which is the fault of who...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
because a) they weren't kept under the reaches of their former-ruling state for economic gains (i.e. unlike most of the ME and africa)11 Bravo wrote:
i would say most places in this world are post-col.....yet they arent fucked up like that. why is that?Uzique wrote:
and a hell of a lot to do with post-colonialism.
which is the fault of who...
and b) because the major era of european colonialism dismantled 100-150 years ago. history takes a while.
examples like the US have had significantly longer periods of time to develop, and a much more stable/rich foundation, too.
don't be dumb on purpose, marine. we gutted that continent. the us still economically keeps central/south america in fetters, too.
same shit, different era.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
and bert your examples make no sense. one is one person, the other is a group of loons. fact is most people in this country think they are loons and try to stop/punish them. in lots of ME countries they celebrate and conceal terrorists. there is a little difference i think.
It doesn't have fuck all to do with religion. Religion is used as a point of division. There are lots of examples of Muslims killing Christians, Christians killing Muslims etc.11 Bravo wrote:
everything in most of africa is fucked up. ive been there a few times and it has fuckall to do with religion. and you know it.Bertster7 wrote:
Christians are Christians.11 Bravo wrote:
i wouldnt hang your hat on anything in africa if you are trying to prove a point.
It is very solid evidence of Christian organisations doing extremely fucked up stuff. If evidence from Africa condemning Islam is okay to use, then why is evidence that condemns Christianity coming from Africa not acceptable?
That is the only example in the list I gave that is from Africa.
Granted they'd probably just use some other difference as an excuse to kill each other were religious differences not such an easy option. I'm not claiming religion is the cause of the violence in Africa, but some of that violence is carried out in the name of Christianity and Islam.
It's also hypocritical to use examples of Islam being fucked up in Africa and then to not accept examples of Christianity being fucked up over there.
If you want to compare in a similar setting then you could look at the number of Christian terrorists in the US and compare that to the number of homegrown Muslim terrorists in the US. Because the argument you're using against examples from Africa is one of cultural differences - which applies equally in the ME.
One example I gave is a single person. The others are all organisations.11 Bravo wrote:
and bert your examples make no sense. one is one person, the other is a group of loons. fact is most people in this country think they are loons and try to stop/punish them. in lots of ME countries they celebrate and conceal terrorists. there is a little difference i think.
There is a difference, it is cultural and not tied in with being Muslim or Christian.
those excuses dont work for me because the level of fuck up in africa is beyond hope. what they do to each other has nothing to do with what the brits or french did.Uzique wrote:
because a) they weren't kept under the reaches of their former-ruling state for economic gains (i.e. unlike most of the ME and africa)11 Bravo wrote:
i would say most places in this world are post-col.....yet they arent fucked up like that. why is that?Uzique wrote:
and a hell of a lot to do with post-colonialism.
which is the fault of who...
and b) because the major era of european colonialism dismantled 100-150 years ago. history takes a while.
examples like the US have had significantly longer periods of time to develop, and a much more stable/rich foundation, too.
don't be dumb on purpose, marine. we gutted that continent. the us still economically keeps central/south america in fetters, too.
same shit, different era.
Get back with me when they influence politics, global economy and current events. Yes I have heard of the Olympic Park bomber, just trying to figure out how this has anything to do with or influenced our world. Are you really comparing this GUY to Islam and all that has been done in its name? Really?Bertster7 wrote:
The Olympic Park Bomber blew up some abortion clinics and set off a bomb at the '96 Atlanta Olympic games killing a couple of people and wounding hundreds.lowing wrote:
Never heard of'm ( olympic park bomber?).....must not be much there.Bertster7 wrote:
Army of God, Lambs of Christ, Olympic Park Bomber, Lords Resistance Army, Russian National Unity, Sons of Freedom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph
Because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they don't exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army
The LRA is accused of widespread human rights violations, including murder, abduction, mutilation, sexual enslavement of women and children, and forcing children to participate in hostilities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_%28USA%29
Army of God (AOG) is a Christian terrorist anti-abortion organization that sanctions the use of force to combat abortion in the United States.
Go ahead, just keep your eyes closed.
do you really wanna know what the brits, french and dutch/belgians did to african subjects under colonial rule? ouch.
also, in the wake of colonialism, there are post-colonial rises of extremism, yes. people politically and ideologically swing to the far-right as an immediate conservative reaction to all that has happened before; fervent nationalism rises, the nation becomes extremely ethnocentric and xenophobic simultaneously, and in most cases closes off to become isolationist. in worse cases, it kneejerks right back at the former power, or neighbouring countries. this isn't a uniquely african-mentality; it's not the product of some cultural or racial inferiority. germany is the textbook example of what happens to a country that has had enough of being stepped on by other imperial powers.
in worse cases, where no order emerges out of the post-colonial vacuum, you get anarchy and a state-of-emergency. but that again is not the product of cultural or racial inferiority; when a country exists as an annexed element of a wider body, which then suddenly cuts loose- all forms of support, societal-structure and civil order disappears with it. in short, we irresponsibly gut these countries in the very act of giving them their 'freedom'. the class and societal stratification that exists in countries under colonial rule obviously favours the rulers - there are two classes of citizen: the imperialist, and the subject. the (bourgeoisie) imperialist gets all the education, living-standards and wealth, whereas the subject is deprived of education, wealth and basic human rights. are you surprised when the entire mid-upper ruling classes of a former colonial country disappears that the uneducated masses then struggle to put together a stable, organized and informed system of government? i can't help but feel you're either being ignorant, dumb or simply not thoughtful/educated on purpose.
you're falling back basically on the orientalist assumption that we, the west, are somehow more 'civilized' and 'proper' than the savage, barbaric and chaotic orient/african continent. it's just not true. these people haven't had a chance, because as soon as we came up with the renaissance/enlightenment, and launched the great democratic liberal modern project, we also simultaneously 'enslaved' them in political, ideological and economic senses to be the underclass that would help us proper and benefit.
think through your next post.
also, in the wake of colonialism, there are post-colonial rises of extremism, yes. people politically and ideologically swing to the far-right as an immediate conservative reaction to all that has happened before; fervent nationalism rises, the nation becomes extremely ethnocentric and xenophobic simultaneously, and in most cases closes off to become isolationist. in worse cases, it kneejerks right back at the former power, or neighbouring countries. this isn't a uniquely african-mentality; it's not the product of some cultural or racial inferiority. germany is the textbook example of what happens to a country that has had enough of being stepped on by other imperial powers.
in worse cases, where no order emerges out of the post-colonial vacuum, you get anarchy and a state-of-emergency. but that again is not the product of cultural or racial inferiority; when a country exists as an annexed element of a wider body, which then suddenly cuts loose- all forms of support, societal-structure and civil order disappears with it. in short, we irresponsibly gut these countries in the very act of giving them their 'freedom'. the class and societal stratification that exists in countries under colonial rule obviously favours the rulers - there are two classes of citizen: the imperialist, and the subject. the (bourgeoisie) imperialist gets all the education, living-standards and wealth, whereas the subject is deprived of education, wealth and basic human rights. are you surprised when the entire mid-upper ruling classes of a former colonial country disappears that the uneducated masses then struggle to put together a stable, organized and informed system of government? i can't help but feel you're either being ignorant, dumb or simply not thoughtful/educated on purpose.
you're falling back basically on the orientalist assumption that we, the west, are somehow more 'civilized' and 'proper' than the savage, barbaric and chaotic orient/african continent. it's just not true. these people haven't had a chance, because as soon as we came up with the renaissance/enlightenment, and launched the great democratic liberal modern project, we also simultaneously 'enslaved' them in political, ideological and economic senses to be the underclass that would help us proper and benefit.
think through your next post.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
ok zeek. we (the west) have given them millions of dollars and shit tons of food. ya, thats really raping them. all these excuses would make sense if we were talking about other issues. what is going on there has nothing to do with what you are saying imo. so, you can keep saying what i am saying is stupid. doesnt bother me really.
They are examples of Christians commiting terrorist acts. The LRA are extremely unpleasant and if you are going to compare things that happen in 3rd world countries then they are an example of a Christian organisation that behaves more horrifically than any Islamic group you care to name.lowing wrote:
Get back with me when they influence politics, global economy and current events. Yes I have heard of the Olympic Park bomber, just trying to figure out how this has anything to do with or influenced our world. Are you really comparing this GUY to Islam and all that has been done in its name? Really?Bertster7 wrote:
The Olympic Park Bomber blew up some abortion clinics and set off a bomb at the '96 Atlanta Olympic games killing a couple of people and wounding hundreds.lowing wrote:
Never heard of'm ( olympic park bomber?).....must not be much there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph
Because you haven't heard of them doesn't mean they don't exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army
The LRA is accused of widespread human rights violations, including murder, abduction, mutilation, sexual enslavement of women and children, and forcing children to participate in hostilities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_%28USA%29
Army of God (AOG) is a Christian terrorist anti-abortion organization that sanctions the use of force to combat abortion in the United States.
Go ahead, just keep your eyes closed.
The Olympic Park Bomber compares more to the Times Square Bomber than anything else.
That's the clue lowing ... doing it in the name of and not on behalf of ... trying to belittle the fact that extremists are not so faul as long as they don't belong to Islam ... good going lowing ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
you think throwing millions of dollars (a minute amount compared to how much we profited/still profit) really makes up for it? you think throwing aid at incompetent governments (which we know are incompetent - for we created them, and to an extent still influence them) really gives them a 'proper' chance at getting off their feet? do you not realize, cynically, that it's in our interest that the continent remains subservient and struggling to get off its feet? do you not think, cynically, that perhaps us re-investing 0.01% of that which we took from the continent is just an ostensible act - on the surface it looks like we're helping, whereas really we're throwing them 2 cents and then turning our backs morally and politically on the huge fuck-up we created?
wow if you don't consider any of those things, just wow.
wow if you don't consider any of those things, just wow.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
yes. none of those excuse cutting off babies heads or womens breasts.Uzique wrote:
wow if you don't consider any of those things, just wow.
your semantics is of very little difference to those killed on 911 Varegg.Varegg wrote:
That's the clue lowing ... doing it in the name of and not on behalf of ... trying to belittle the fact that extremists are not so faul as long as they don't belong to Islam ... good going lowing ...
These were ISLAMIC terrorists. Get over it.
Resources too.Uzique wrote:
you think throwing millions of dollars (a minute amount compared to how much we profited/still profit) really makes up for it? you think throwing aid at incompetent governments (which we know are incompetent - for we created them, and to an extent still influence them) really gives them a 'proper' chance at getting off their feet? do you not realize, cynically, that it's in our interest that the continent remains subservient and struggling to get off its feet? do you not think, cynically, that perhaps us re-investing 0.01% of that which we took from the continent is just an ostensible act - on the surface it looks like we're helping, whereas really we're throwing them 2 cents and then turning our backs morally and politically on the huge fuck-up we created?
wow if you don't consider any of those things, just wow.
The resources we get from Africa at low prices which are paid directly to dodgy dictators doesn't help matters at all. It just funds them buying arms to cling on to power. If it were not for these external influences then who can say whether they couldn't have sorted their society out a lot better through balanced civil wars and suchlike.
by the way, where are the experts denying and calling http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ a bunch of lies?
Where are the experts and their claims that Sharia law is accepting and tempered and tolerant? Still waiting.
Where are the experts and their claims that Sharia law is accepting and tempered and tolerant? Still waiting.
you cannot assign cultural differences to the axis of 'we're right', 'they're wrong'.11 Bravo wrote:
yes. none of those excuse cutting off babies heads or womens breasts.Uzique wrote:
wow if you don't consider any of those things, just wow.
there is no one 'correct' society or one 'correct' way to live. western capitalist democracy is not the answer to the meaning of life. also a lot of it is the product of a lack-of-education: a lack of education that we have systematically and purposefully denied them, for whatever self-interested gains we have taken from their countries and people. THINK it THROUGH, marine.
Last edited by Uzique (2010-06-30 08:04:41)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
the shit you talk about the US makes me LOL at this statement.Uzique wrote:
you cannot assign cultural differences to the axis of 'we're right', 'they're wrong'.11 Bravo wrote:
yes. none of those excuse cutting off babies heads or womens breasts.Uzique wrote:
wow if you don't consider any of those things, just wow.
youre all just a bunch of consumers
Tu Stultus Es
Your semantics probably don't make much difference to the thousands killed, mutilated and raped by CHRISTIAN terrorists.lowing wrote:
your semantics is of very little difference to those killed on 911 Varegg.Varegg wrote:
That's the clue lowing ... doing it in the name of and not on behalf of ... trying to belittle the fact that extremists are not so faul as long as they don't belong to Islam ... good going lowing ...
These were ISLAMIC terrorists. Get over it.
Where are the experts supporting that notion?lowing wrote:
by the way, where are the experts denying and calling http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ a bunch of lies?
Where are the experts and their claims that Sharia law is accepting and tempered and tolerant? Still waiting.
err, hey dumbass, 'we' is the western occident and 'they' is the oriental world.11 Bravo wrote:
the shit you talk about the US makes me LOL at this statement.Uzique wrote:
you cannot assign cultural differences to the axis of 'we're right', 'they're wrong'.11 Bravo wrote:
yes. none of those excuse cutting off babies heads or womens breasts.
the shit you talk without thinking through a single post makes me LOL.
Last edited by Uzique (2010-06-30 08:07:29)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/