Please refrain from personal attacks. There is no place for it here. If you don't feel like debating him, DON'T.
Nope, if they are not practicing it, then they are not representing it. Plain and simple.Varegg wrote:
And those that practice the religion is representative to how that religion is practiced ... and that is not how you like to describe it.lowing wrote:
how do you know, you haven't shown me anything yet that proves your case, all you do is deny what is shown to you.Varegg wrote:
Because whatever we show you lowing will not change your mind because you have a huge comprehension problem ... you comment on events and actions like they are representative for the entire mass of followers when in fact it isn't ...
That's what you don't understand and never will ...
I am not speaking of the masses, I am speaking of their religion. You need to learn the difference.
I know the difference lowing ... you don't ... your paranoia with Islam is laughable at best ...
I am not paranoid about Islam, I simply see it for what it is, what its leaders say it is, what has been done in its name, and what it teaches. Why can't you?
somewhat of an irony there with 'idiotic' and 'incapable of grasping fairly simple concepts' when your grammar use is way off.Bertster7 wrote:
I've seen dozens and dozens of cases where you have been shown overwhelming evidence by everybody on the forum, yet still hold to retarded concepts like Obama's administration being fascist.lowing wrote:
how do you know, you haven't shown me anything yet that proves your case, all you do is deny what is shown to you.Varegg wrote:
Because whatever we show you lowing will not change your mind because you have a huge comprehension problem ... you comment on events and actions like they are representative for the entire mass of followers when in fact it isn't ...
That's what you don't understand and never will ...
I am not speaking of the masses, I am speaking of their religion. You need to learn the difference.
One case is much like another, you don't ever listen to any sort of reason or common sense. Why? Because you're too; stubborn, stupid, single-minded, idiotic, incapable of grasping fairly simple concepts.
colon, not semi-colon.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
don't tell me how to confront lowing's warped-worldview when i have already intelligently countered his views on islam, fascism, neo-liberalism and countless other 'hot topics' of the contempoary-now. the fact is that my post pretty nailed on the head the social aspect of lowing's internet browsing and the ideological fermentation that has (wrongly) taken place in his little mind. when you've tried to get a point across to the man for several months and continuously failed agonizingly, then come back here and tell me/us to leave out any and all trace of ad hominem argument.nlsme1 wrote:
Please refrain from personal attacks. There is no place for it here. If you don't feel like debating him, DON'T.
besides, it wasn't so much a personal attack as a sociological diagnosis of 'where things went so badly fucking wrong'...
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
It wasn't really directed at your post. More to the name calling.
"Because you're too; stubborn, stupid, single-minded, idiotic, incapable of grasping fairly simple concepts."
"Because you're too; stubborn, stupid, single-minded, idiotic, incapable of grasping fairly simple concepts."
That would be great if, none of what is posted is true, none of what is reported is true, if sharia law didn't exist, if the koran could not be quoted, if the Islamic leaders couldn'e be quoted, if.............Uzique wrote:
lowing there is a sociological phenomenon on the internet known as something like 'virtual balkanization' or the like.
basically you are the textbook example of this bizarre social effect: when one's surfing habits frequent a number of similar websites, and a person becomes a 'casual' browser of 'x' genre of website- they surround themselves with 'information' and 'content' that starts to increasingly co-align with their own personal (world)views and attitudes. eventually you are so surrounded in your every-day surfing experience by websites, opinions, content and, indeed, other users in the same situation- that your own beliefs become so confirmed and concrete that you cannot see out of the box you have just sealed yourself in.
break out of the sociological, pathological narrowmindedness. you do realize that people looking to find 'information' on 'islam: the religion of peace' could just as easily utilize google to find pro-Islam sites, right? you do realize that there are communities, forums, information-websites and countless blogs out there that promote islam as a peaceful co-existing religion in our modern world? you seek out the negative critique that compliments your own world-view and then further drown yourself in the false knowledge that your opinions are right; and, furthermore, are the only version of 'right' that exists.
i cannot believe that a grown man can delude himself into such absolute stupidity.
fact is, the internet is not the end all and be all of opinion on Islam. It is a media outlet one of many, and they all say the same thing.
But let me guess, it isn't Islam right? It is the media.
Exactly, there are no borders, we are at war with an ideology. A little more complex then what you are trying to make as a point.nlsme1 wrote:
Islam encompasses more then the ME. Again, you said we are at war with Islam. Please back up that statement.
True - I always get mixed up with those when it comes to lists. The semi-colons should've been in between the articles in the list (if I had been using longer, more complex ones), not preceeding it.Uzique wrote:
somewhat of an irony there with 'idiotic' and 'incapable of grasping fairly simple concepts' when your grammar use is way off.Bertster7 wrote:
I've seen dozens and dozens of cases where you have been shown overwhelming evidence by everybody on the forum, yet still hold to retarded concepts like Obama's administration being fascist.lowing wrote:
how do you know, you haven't shown me anything yet that proves your case, all you do is deny what is shown to you.
I am not speaking of the masses, I am speaking of their religion. You need to learn the difference.
One case is much like another, you don't ever listen to any sort of reason or common sense. Why? Because you're too; stubborn, stupid, single-minded, idiotic, incapable of grasping fairly simple concepts.
colon, not semi-colon.
:P
Way off seems a bit of a stretch anyway ;)
Last edited by Bertster7 (2010-06-30 06:21:39)
Never been shown a thing that encompasses Islam as tolerant peaceful or accepting. Only bee ntold I was full of shit when I show example that it is not. Best part is, I use Islam, its leaders and its books themselves as proof.Bertster7 wrote:
I've seen dozens and dozens of cases where you have been shown overwhelming evidence by everybody on the forum, yet still hold to retarded concepts like Obama's administration being fascist.lowing wrote:
how do you know, you haven't shown me anything yet that proves your case, all you do is deny what is shown to you.Varegg wrote:
Because whatever we show you lowing will not change your mind because you have a huge comprehension problem ... you comment on events and actions like they are representative for the entire mass of followers when in fact it isn't ...
That's what you don't understand and never will ...
I am not speaking of the masses, I am speaking of their religion. You need to learn the difference.
One case is much like another, you don't ever listen to any sort of reason or common sense. Why? Because you're too; stubborn, stupid, single-minded, idiotic, incapable of grasping fairly simple concepts.
By the way, Obamas actions are fascist. look it up
Well then, why are Muslim's allowed in our country? Why are their thousands of mosques in our country? We are at war with fanaticals. Terorists. SOMETHING OUR GVERNMENT HAS MADE VERY CLEAR. Maybe you should look into that?
Proving my point nicely.lowing wrote:
By the way, Obamas actions are fascist. look it up
you haven't countered shit, what have you posted, besides personal opinion, that proves what I cite is a lie?Uzique wrote:
don't tell me how to confront lowing's warped-worldview when i have already intelligently countered his views on islam, fascism, neo-liberalism and countless other 'hot topics' of the contempoary-now. the fact is that my post pretty nailed on the head the social aspect of lowing's internet browsing and the ideological fermentation that has (wrongly) taken place in his little mind. when you've tried to get a point across to the man for several months and continuously failed agonizingly, then come back here and tell me/us to leave out any and all trace of ad hominem argument.nlsme1 wrote:
Please refrain from personal attacks. There is no place for it here. If you don't feel like debating him, DON'T.
besides, it wasn't so much a personal attack as a sociological diagnosis of 'where things went so badly fucking wrong'...
I take it you never bothered to read up on it. Oh well, can't help ya.Bertster7 wrote:
Proving my point nicely.lowing wrote:
By the way, Obamas actions are fascist. look it up
So lowing - if I were to contact one of the top experts on fascism in the world and get their opinion on whether Obama's administation is fascist, would you accept that as evidence?
Would an email from one of the very top experts in the field sway your opinion?
Would an email from one of the very top experts in the field sway your opinion?
Because our country recognizes freedom of religion and that very freedom is being used against us. Our constitution is being exploited for non-intended use against our society. All of our trust, all of our freedoms, all of our tolerance is in use against our society as a whole.nlsme1 wrote:
Well then, why are Muslim's allowed in our country? Why are their thousands of mosques in our country? We are at war with fanaticals. Terorists. SOMETHING OUR GVERNMENT HAS MADE VERY CLEAR. Maybe you should look into that?
Please, do not try and use politicians words as gospel all of sudden. Obama said he was closing Gitmo as well. What is your point?
Last edited by lowing (2010-06-30 06:30:34)
And Pocahontas was a nazi ... prove me wrong on that one ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PocahontasVaregg wrote:
And Pocahontas was a nazi ... prove me wrong on that one ...
By the way for your argument ot be valid, you would need to show where she was a Nazi first before I can counter it.
Now I have cited many sources that show Islam as intolerant and violent. Counter it.
Didn't she resort to terrorism to attack the innocent americans who were merely retaking their own land?Varegg wrote:
And Pocahontas was a nazi ... prove me wrong on that one ...
Fuck Israel
Yet you have not shown one thing showing we are at war with Islam.
About as much as any expert I cited that his actions were fascist would convince you.Bertster7 wrote:
So lowing - if I were to contact one of the top experts on fascism in the world and get their opinion on whether Obama's administation is fascist, would you accept that as evidence?
Would an email from one of the very top experts in the field sway your opinion?
How about the experts that claim Islam is intolerant and violent, are they convincing you?
unless you can tell me that you have been out and have engaged, interacted and exchanged views with real muslims, real preachers and real academics in the REAL world- then yes, it is the media. the cultural productions of the world's media are all broadcast through coloured-filters: this isn't rocket science, now. our nation's media broadcast to us that which is especially interesting, controversial and exciting- the 'big stories', in other words. news agencies and papers love to have arching 'meta-stories' that they can continually refer back to time-and-time again for guaranteed repeat sales and renewed interest in their publication/broadcasting. the 'war on terror' has been that meta-narrative in the occidental world since the bush administration and 9/11. the media 'face' given to terrorism, as a broadly-defined global atrocity (not all linked)? the arab. the muslim. the middle-east. 'them' against 'us'. it's a very basic social force at work, again. the uniting and coming-together of 'us' against the defined 'other'; it's orientalism at its most brutal and discriminative. have you read anything on orientalism during your many hours of enthusiastic internet-research and media-browsing? i'm guessing not.lowing wrote:
That would be great if, none of what is posted is true, none of what is reported is true, if sharia law didn't exist, if the koran could not be quoted, if the Islamic leaders couldn'e be quoted, if.............Uzique wrote:
lowing there is a sociological phenomenon on the internet known as something like 'virtual balkanization' or the like.
basically you are the textbook example of this bizarre social effect: when one's surfing habits frequent a number of similar websites, and a person becomes a 'casual' browser of 'x' genre of website- they surround themselves with 'information' and 'content' that starts to increasingly co-align with their own personal (world)views and attitudes. eventually you are so surrounded in your every-day surfing experience by websites, opinions, content and, indeed, other users in the same situation- that your own beliefs become so confirmed and concrete that you cannot see out of the box you have just sealed yourself in.
break out of the sociological, pathological narrowmindedness. you do realize that people looking to find 'information' on 'islam: the religion of peace' could just as easily utilize google to find pro-Islam sites, right? you do realize that there are communities, forums, information-websites and countless blogs out there that promote islam as a peaceful co-existing religion in our modern world? you seek out the negative critique that compliments your own world-view and then further drown yourself in the false knowledge that your opinions are right; and, furthermore, are the only version of 'right' that exists.
i cannot believe that a grown man can delude himself into such absolute stupidity.
fact is, the internet is not the end all and be all of opinion on Islam. It is a media outlet one of many, and they all say the same thing.
But let me guess, it isn't Islam right? It is the media.
the western world frequently likes to paint the near and far east as some alien, hostile and barbaric world. it has been occuring since the very first explorers, sociologists and philologists started mapping the area. the distinction between a civilized, better-us and a barbaric, other-worldly them began as far back as napoleon's conquest of egypt during the early era of empire. none of these narrowminded views are anything new: you are very much spouting the example of a textbook orientalist/nationalist, a view that has existed for about 500 years. not unfounded you would say? well, the massive wealth of 'academia', 'information' and 'scholarship' that does exist on the subject was all started with a legacy created by ultimately bias, racist and imperialist individuals themselves. de sacy, renan, caussin, quinet, michelet... all of these philosophers, sociologists, philologists, archaelogists etc. all 'founded' and established a field of research that was paradoxically built upon the axis of 'us' and 'them' and all the associated views of supremacy, imperialist-annexation and ethnocentric race prejudices. you are just perpetuating a worldview and an attitude that has, frankly, been outruled as archaic and wrong in the modern, post-colonial era.
islam is not a brutal religion. the middle-east is not full of human-rights atrocities. they are normal human beings that have developed with an entirely different culture, spirituality, world-view and society to ours; but that does not make them inherently 'wrong' and us 'right' by default. co-existence whilst realizing our fundamental differences is the constructive way forward; retreating into right-wing conservatism, the dangerous rhetoric and narrowmindedness of nationalism and then decrying the 'other' as beasts, criminals, terrorists, inferiors etc. is contributing further to nothing other than the outside world's increasing view of you as a product of yesterday. your worldview is wrong, plain and simple. within 2-3 generation's time the implicitly colonialist, occident/orient division will, hopefully, be blurred enough for us to start putting feet forward in the 'new' era of progress. the neo-conservative, christian-outlook of your previous administrations has done massive injury to this noble effort, though. bush and the masses of poorly-educated, narrowminded and innocently-ignorant americans have made sure that the neo-colonialist efforts of america in the 21st century, as the natural inheritor of britain and france's former imperial might and ideology, continue to perpetuate the first-generation inequalities and paradoxes.
i suggest you read that post very carefully. i have suggested many serious names for you to incidentally look into, if you have any genuine interest in furthering your knowledge and acquiring a genuinely well-informed view on the subject. please do not insult me by replying with yet another link to one of those laughably-bigoted websites that, overall, offer no more than a confirmation of my aforementioned summary of orientalist beliefs and anti-arabic, ill-founded sentiments.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
More like Islam is at war with the west. WHat exactly are you looking for as proof, if not the body count, the actions, the words and the teachings of Islam?nlsme1 wrote:
Yet you have not shown one thing showing we are at war with Islam.
Are there any experts who would say that?lowing wrote:
About as much as any expert I cited that his actions were fascist would convince you.Bertster7 wrote:
So lowing - if I were to contact one of the top experts on fascism in the world and get their opinion on whether Obama's administation is fascist, would you accept that as evidence?
Would an email from one of the very top experts in the field sway your opinion?
How about the experts that claim Islam is intolerant and violent, are they convincing you?
Last edited by Spark (2010-06-30 06:40:31)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Lowing has taken up the position as supreme spokesman for both the "Western" and "Islamic" worlds I see.
I may convert and join Hezbollah - they're the bomb.
Can you be a weekday muslim and have fun at weekends? Like Catholics only opposite.
Can you be a weekday muslim and have fun at weekends? Like Catholics only opposite.
Fuck Israel