mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6908|Sydney, Australia

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Try some big-assed studio monitor headphones. Very easy to slip a mic on beneath one, and you can crank your volume without bugging anyone around the house.

mcminty wrote:

Currently I have a pair of HD555's, powered by a Firestone Audio Fubar 3 DAC/amp. While I like them immensely, I often don't feel like wearing headphones while I do work in my room.
If I wanted to go any higher with headphones, I'd look at higher end Sennheiser or AKG headphones..
Freezer7Pro
I don't come here a lot anymore.
+1,447|6384|Winland

mcminty wrote:

Ya know, just as a point to make.. whats the obsession with SNR? If you have a look at Cambridge Audio's flagship model receiver, the Azur 840A, its SNR is only >93dB. If the dynamic range of a CD is 93dB.. then why didn't they design the amp (and the cheaper ones) otherwise? I'm sure they would have easily been able to create one with 105+..
Because they really aren't that great at designing ampli-

MY GOD, THEY WANT $2000 FOR THAT?! WHAT THE FUCK. That's just ridiculous! And their explanation of that "Class XD" bullshit is just painful to read.
The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6908|Sydney, Australia
Just to update this thread, last night I had an interesting talk with my uncle about all things audio. I'll be looking into the Cambridge Audio 340 system, or if I can get a good price, the 550 system. A local place priced them today at A$690 and A$1230 respectively (which includes the amp and CD player). I did have a play around with the 340SE.. but didn't really like the volume knob. The 550 series seems a lot more solid..

Also, my friends have been thinking of something to get me, so I've suggested they chip in for a phono preamp - my record player is still goodish, and I'll upgrade the cartridge down the road.

As for Freezer's earlier comments, well.. stop knocking one out over system specs. They will not be able to tell you what something sounds like. Cambridge has an incredibly solid design history (like most UK audio brands), and while they will typically output lower watts than your suggested Japanese counterparts, it'll still sound better. Quality over quantity... I'll trust my uncle on this.. since he's been in the hi-fi business and electrical engineering for 25-30 years..

Speaker-wise, my uncle suggested some Kef Coda 8's. They seem pretty solid from various reviews, although I'm not sure where I can find them. He suggested buying from a local seller on ebay (would cost me around A$250 as opposed to around 700 new), but mum went mental at the suggestion of ebay.. They go down to 45Hz, so down the road I'd add a small sub to round out the very bottom of the low end.
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6186|The Mitten

mcminty wrote:

Just to update this thread, last night I had an interesting talk with my uncle about all things audio. I'll be looking into the Cambridge Audio 340 system, or if I can get a good price, the 550 system. A local place priced them today at A$690 and A$1230 respectively (which includes the amp and CD player). I did have a play around with the 340SE.. but didn't really like the volume knob. The 550 series seems a lot more solid..

Also, my friends have been thinking of something to get me, so I've suggested they chip in for a phono preamp - my record player is still goodish, and I'll upgrade the cartridge down the road.

As for Freezer's earlier comments, well.. stop knocking one out over system specs. They will not be able to tell you what something sounds like. Cambridge has an incredibly solid design history (like most UK audio brands), and while they will typically output lower watts than your suggested Japanese counterparts, it'll still sound better. Quality over quantity... I'll trust my uncle on this.. since he's been in the hi-fi business and electrical engineering for 25-30 years..

Speaker-wise, my uncle suggested some Kef Coda 8's. They seem pretty solid from various reviews, although I'm not sure where I can find them. He suggested buying from a local seller on ebay (would cost me around A$250 as opposed to around 700 new), but mum went mental at the suggestion of ebay.. They go down to 45Hz, so down the road I'd add a small sub to round out the very bottom of the low end.
45 isn;t too bad, as long as it's a solid 45, not like a "oh it's there we'll list it" kinda deal. Also, if possible, apply a crossover when you get the sub - it'll pull some of the extra low end out of the tops, so they'll be tighter for their more limited range.
EE (hats
Freezer7Pro
I don't come here a lot anymore.
+1,447|6384|Winland

mcminty wrote:

As for Freezer's earlier comments, well.. stop knocking one out over system specs. They will not be able to tell you what something sounds like. Cambridge has an incredibly solid design history (like most UK audio brands), and while they will typically output lower watts than your suggested Japanese counterparts, it'll still sound better. Quality over quantity... I'll trust my uncle on this.. since he's been in the hi-fi business and electrical engineering for 25-30 years..
I thought you were above that. But it seems you've swallowed the audiophile bullshit, just like everyone else.

Sigh, when did science become outdated?
The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP
TSI
Cholera in the time of love
+247|6168|Toronto

mcminty wrote:

As for Freezer's earlier comments, well.. stop knocking one out over system specs. They will not be able to tell you what something sounds like. Cambridge has an incredibly solid design history (like most UK audio brands), and while they will typically output lower watts than your suggested Japanese counterparts, it'll still sound better. Quality over quantity...
Uh-oh. Here we go again. Inb4 Fre--nvm.


Glad to hear you've got something sorted, minty. Tell us how it goes.
I like pie.
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6908|Sydney, Australia
Guess I should update this. I'm still looking for speakers, preamp, amp and a CD player; and have spent the last month emailing various shops all over Sydney. Went and listened to a few this this afternoon.

Speakers: I'm seriously considering the B&W 685's. For the price point ($999) they are very highly rated, and seem hard to beat. Indeed today I compared them to speakers more than double their price, and the difference was minor. The only problem with them is that the B&W Speaker Stands cost $700 (fuuck!).. it's insane, so I'm trying to find an appropriate alternative (it needs to be a heavy/solid stand). The good news, however, is that the local store is willing to do the speakers/stands for $1450 if I pay in cash - approx 15% of retail price.

I'll try to compare the 685's to some other speakers in the next week (maybe some Rega RS-1's), but I doubt they would be hard to beat.


Amps and CD player: At a different store, I've been offered a similar 15% off deal for either combination of Cambridge 550A, 550C and 640P (phono preamp) or 650A, 650C and 640P. The amps are pretty much the same with power being the main difference, while the DAC is the main difference in CD players (dual 192kHz dacs in the 650C vs one in the 550C). I've also been looking at a few other amps (eg. Marantz), just for the sake of comparison.



So as I said earlier, I auditioned the B&W 685's with the 650A and the Marantz PM7003 amps. The CD player was some other brand, but it was "good enough for the audition" without being some insane $5,000 player. I listened to a cross section of tracks, although I'd be open for any track suggestions

Tracks used:
  • "I'm Not Alone", Calvin Harris - electronica, with a vast amount of details in the upper mids and highs. Not a bad bassline either.
  • "What is this feeling?", Cast of Wicked - musical. A good test of female vocals, soundstange and separation of detail (between the leads, backing cast and orchestra)
  • "Whorses", Biffy Clyro - rock. A bass guitar and drum driven song, which is ruined when you have any muddy bass. Good test for the amp's handling of bass and the speakers ability to reproduce it (the 685's go down to 49Hz, then drop off 6dB by 42Hz)
  • "Coffee, Black" and "Eastwood Lane", John Pizzarelli trio - jazz. Great for testing the soundstage/placement of instruments, male vocals and transients (from the snare drum and cymbals).

I'd loved to have used David Sylvian's "Darkest Dreaming", since that's an awesomely haunting track and his voice is amazing, but I don't have it on CD. So yeah, any suggestions of things to try?


Differences between the 650A and the PM7003 weren't that significant, despite the Marantz amp costing ~1.3-1.4x the Cambridge one. Both provided ample power, and were able to drive the speakers to well above my usual listening levels. The test confirmed most of what I'd read about the 650A. Due to the fact that it's incredibly revealing of details (which can sound a little harsh at times), the amp comes across as a tad bright. When switched back and forth to the PM7003, this can also be perceived lack of mids.. but alone, this doesn't sound inherently bad and isn't tiring to listen to. The sense of space, and the placement of instruments seemed to be better in the 650A.. although I'd need to have another listen.. Overall, given the price difference I'd lean towards the Cambridge Audio gear.


In the next week, I'll try to get to another store to check out some more gear, both comparing the Cambridge 550 series and 650 series, and Cambridge to some other brands.
Freezer7Pro
I don't come here a lot anymore.
+1,447|6384|Winland

Sigh, why won't you listen to reason?
The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6908|Sydney, Australia

Freezer7Pro wrote:

Sigh, why won't you listen to reason?
At least explain that
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6836

Definitely get the 685's, they're fucking fantastic.
TSI
Cholera in the time of love
+247|6168|Toronto
Naim! Naim! Naim!

Seems like you've got that all figured out, though. Good job on the discount, too.
I like pie.
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6908|Sydney, Australia

ghettoperson wrote:

Definitely get the 685's, they're fucking fantastic.
Given what I heard yesterday, I must agree.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6836

Oh and ignore Freezer, buy what you want/like.
Freezer7Pro
I don't come here a lot anymore.
+1,447|6384|Winland

mcminty wrote:

Freezer7Pro wrote:

Sigh, why won't you listen to reason?
At least explain that
It has been proven over and over and over again that there is no audible difference between any two properly designed transistor amplifiers driven below clipping. If you hear a difference between two such, either one is faulty, or your testing methodology is flawed. I'm willing to bet that it's the latter in this case.

Anyone who struts around saying that there are differences only proves that he has fallen for the audiophile dogma without even bothering to properly research the facts.

I'm sorry, as a man of science, things like this annoy me.
The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6340|what

ghettoperson wrote:

Oh and ignore Freezer
Best advice in this thread so far.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6908|Sydney, Australia

Freezer7Pro wrote:

It has been proven over and over and over again that there is no audible difference between any two properly designed transistor amplifiers driven below clipping.
Have you ever.. listened to two amplifiers.. swapping back and forth between the two during playback? If you can't tell the difference, then maybe it's your ears that are the problem.
Freezer7Pro
I don't come here a lot anymore.
+1,447|6384|Winland

mcminty wrote:

Freezer7Pro wrote:

It has been proven over and over and over again that there is no audible difference between any two properly designed transistor amplifiers driven below clipping.
Have you ever.. listened to two amplifiers.. swapping back and forth between the two during playback? If you can't tell the difference, then maybe it's your ears that are the problem.
I guarantee that you didn't do the test at matched levels. Comparing audio gear properly isn't as easy as you may think.

If you'd take those two amplifiers, bypass the tone controls and whatnot, and make sure they're outputting at the same level within +/-0.1dB, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Read up on the Richard Clark amplifier challenge if you don't believe me.
The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6908|Sydney, Australia

Freezer7Pro wrote:

mcminty wrote:

Freezer7Pro wrote:

It has been proven over and over and over again that there is no audible difference between any two properly designed transistor amplifiers driven below clipping.
Have you ever.. listened to two amplifiers.. swapping back and forth between the two during playback? If you can't tell the difference, then maybe it's your ears that are the problem.
I guarantee that you didn't do the test at matched levels. Comparing audio gear properly isn't as easy as you may think.

If you'd take those two amplifiers, bypass the tone controls and whatnot, and make sure they're outputting at the same level within +/-0.1dB, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Read up on the Richard Clark amplifier challenge if you don't believe me.
Yes, I do know that for a proper test they need to be within +/-0.1dB, and that it's near impossible to do at your average audio store.

As are you saying that for two "properly designed transistor amps" there is no audible difference, is it to say that corresponding differences in SNR, THD, etc between the two amps are largely irrelevant?.. As you claim they should sound the same?
Freezer7Pro
I don't come here a lot anymore.
+1,447|6384|Winland

mcminty wrote:

Freezer7Pro wrote:

mcminty wrote:


Have you ever.. listened to two amplifiers.. swapping back and forth between the two during playback? If you can't tell the difference, then maybe it's your ears that are the problem.
I guarantee that you didn't do the test at matched levels. Comparing audio gear properly isn't as easy as you may think.

If you'd take those two amplifiers, bypass the tone controls and whatnot, and make sure they're outputting at the same level within +/-0.1dB, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Read up on the Richard Clark amplifier challenge if you don't believe me.
Yes, I do know that for a proper test they need to be within +/-0.1dB, and that it's near impossible to do at your average audio store.

As are you saying that for two "properly designed transistor amps" there is no audible difference, is it to say that corresponding differences in SNR, THD, etc between the two amps are largely irrelevant?.. As you claim they should sound the same?
The distortion of the amplifier is so small in comparison to that of the transducers that it simply doesn't matter. Almost any amplifier will have way under 0.1% distortion - probably closer to 0.01% -  throughout its power range, whereas most (good) speakers land at 1% or more. SNR too matters less, as most amps will have a noise floor WAY under that of the room they're used in.

Of course, you should try to get as low distortion numbers and noise floor as possible for the money, but that's also all there is to it, looks and feel aside. In practise, cheap Yamaha at 0.05% distortion will sound the same as a Marantz or Cambridge Audio amplifier at 0.05% distortion.
The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6908|Sydney, Australia
Dude, you should have just laid it out like that in the first place. You come across as a lot more.. reasonable.

So what was your suggestion anyway? Yamaha's "Hi-Fi" amplifiers, at a comparable price to the Cambridge gear, have pretty much similar specifications. Worse in some areas, better in others. Yamaha's AV receivers, at a similar price to Cambridge and completely useless to me with 7.2 channels, are worse in their specifications...

Interesting point you made about the speaker distortion usually being above 1% for good speakers. B&W lists <1% 100Hz - 22kHz, <0.5% 150Hz - 20kHz for the 685's 2nd and 3rd order distortion.


As for what I'm actually doing; next week I'll be going to the shop I've been talking to about the Cambridge gear. I'm going to have a listen to a few things (mostly some other speakers, although I'm pretty set on the 685's.. gotta do business the right way since they are willing to give a massive discount ) And I guess I'll take it from there..
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6768|the dank(super) side of Oregon
Wow, fancy stuff.  My Sony receiver and floorstanding Polk speakers are more than enough for me.
Freezer7Pro
I don't come here a lot anymore.
+1,447|6384|Winland

mcminty wrote:

Dude, you should have just laid it out like that in the first place. You come across as a lot more.. reasonable.

So what was your suggestion anyway? Yamaha's "Hi-Fi" amplifiers, at a comparable price to the Cambridge gear, have pretty much similar specifications. Worse in some areas, better in others. Yamaha's AV receivers, at a similar price to Cambridge and completely useless to me with 7.2 channels, are worse in their specifications...

Interesting point you made about the speaker distortion usually being above 1% for good speakers. B&W lists <1% 100Hz - 22kHz, <0.5% 150Hz - 20kHz for the 685's 2nd and 3rd order distortion.


As for what I'm actually doing; next week I'll be going to the shop I've been talking to about the Cambridge gear. I'm going to have a listen to a few things (mostly some other speakers, although I'm pretty set on the 685's.. gotta do business the right way since they are willing to give a massive discount ) And I guess I'll take it from there..
My suggestion is for you to get the cheapest amplifier/receiver with enough power you can (within some limits, of course). Don't fall for what the salesmen tell you, as long as it's a class A, AB or D amplifier, it'll sound just like all other amplifiers. Put more money into the speakers as well as possible sound treatments for the room, as they're what matters the most.
The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6908|Sydney, Australia
Another update

Considering all advice (yes, even yours Freezer ), I ended up with the Cambridge Audio gear. I just picked it up this afternoon. The Amp and CD player are still in the boxes, so here's a pic of the pre-amp

https://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs020.snc4/34379_470361839615_508019615_6459969_1437706_n.jpg


I still need to get the cables from my uncle, and to choose the speakers. After listening to a few more speakers, I'm not exactly set on the B&W685's. Also.. my dad wants to get the 27 year old Mordaunt-Short MS40's restored so it'll be a week or so until he realises that won't work properly..
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6293|eXtreme to the maX
Mordaunt Shorts used to be fantastic - I knew the two people who owned it before it was sold to Tannoy - who just used it as a badge.
Should have never got rid of my MS20s, my MS25s aren't quite as good....
Fuck Israel
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6908|Sydney, Australia
Yeah, I know they used to be bloody fantastic Unless they can be restored with original spec drivers, the electronics and crossover will be wrong..

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