BF2S Forums Should Arizona rename itself to "Nazi-zona"?

eleven bravo wrote:

lol wow.  no i wasnt but i should have expected a response like this from you lowing.  this is why I try not to take the time to address you seriously.  youve been owned

Last edited by lowing (2010-05-14 13:39:10)

eleven bravo wrote:

ive posted so many times about it im really tired of writing the same story over again



two weeks after I was discharged from active duty, 3 months from coming back from my 12 month deployment I was walking from my car to a friends house i lived close by.  as i was walking to my destination a LASD deputy pulled over and approached me while her partner approached some other individuals that I happened to be a good 40 to 50 feet away from me.  She asked for my ID, which I gladly produced, fully cooperating.  She asked me if i was with those individuals I said no but I did know them from years ago growing up in this neighborhood.  they had appeared as I was grabbing a shirt from my car to when I was going back to my friends house.  as she looked at my id (drives license and army id) she said I was full of shit, no way anyone who looks like me could have been in iraq or let alone the army, how she had cousins and a father in the marine corps (which is really a great way to press a soldiers buttons, mentioning the USMC) so shes an expert at id'ing military people.
  Keep in mind I had just returned from combat a few months prior, I had lost several close friends, I made the lowest amount of money possible since i was lower enlisted and a single soldier my entire deployment.  When told me that I lost my cool, told her good for her cousins and father but shes a moron and from that moment I was put in cuffs and thrown in the back of the car.  I had been arrested no more than 30 seconds after being stopped and was not read my rights.  so as I was in the car, already in cuffs I decided to exercise my 1st amendment right (even though telling a cop off isnt against the law in the first place).
  So she calls back up (im already in the car with cuffs on at this point, remember), 2 or 3 more units come by.  this one asshole thinks he could catch me in a lie and starts interogating me.  I answered every question before he even finished asking it.  He then had the nerve to tell me that he was in the army, he was in combat.  I asked him years he was in, he 85-88 (we werent in those years) and the original arresting officer had the gaul to tell me to quit telling them "you came back from iraq, people are dying there now".  they ran my license plate twice. then finally told me I was getting booked.  I asked her what for.  she said for supplying alcohol to a minor (the guy they stopped 40 to 50 feet away from me was drinking a 40 under age) now she knew that was bullshit but she had to a reason to justify why I was getting arrested.  I demanded she bring the bottle for evidence, considering if i did provide alcohol i would have had to to have touched the bottle.  she idnt give that any thought
  They took me in, booked me.  the charge went from what i was being told I was getting arrested for to "obstruction of justice".I dont know the procedure but it seemed like she was getting a lot of help from her buddies filling out the arrest report because it took her god damn 3 hours to finish it after everyone gave a look over it.  I was released 8 hours later on OR bond and went to court a few weeks later for preliminary hearing.   The DA wanted to give me 12 months summary probation and 5 days cal trans (community service) fuck that.  I decided to fight it.  In and out of court a few times when my public defender told me there was no way i could win this (i had a feeling she could give a fuck less whether I was wrongly arrested but it seemed like she was siding with law enforcement here) and i could work out a plea where i could get the charges dismissed if I take anger management sessions.
  I took the plea, took the sessions, shelling out near 500 bucks.  I was starting school and these court dates were trying so i just wanted to get it over with.  the came by to reporting back to court the completing of anger management when I was confrontet woth the fact that my attorney didnt tell i would still be on probation for 6 months even after completing the counseling.  Fuck that.  I was trying to get back in the army and i wouldnt be able to if I was on probation.  During the last set of hearings I actually made friends with the court bailiff (a sheriff's deputy) who was a soldier and we got to shooting the shit while waiting for the next dockets.  but I said i would fight it even though i already paid for anger managment.
  Next court date, a new laywer.  he reviews my case for the first time and pretty much tells me I was an idiot for taking a plea because there was no case against.  this lawyer actually showed me the police reprt.  about 8 months after the incident I find out exactly what it was i was being charged with, resisting arrest- no other crime followed.  How could a person be resisting arrest when they were not commiting a crime to be arrested for?  it was ridiculous.  The arrest report was full of flat out lies.  the officers claiming i said things I never said.  things that are so out of character with the things that I would say when i am angry it was sad.
  long story short, on the recommendation of the arresting cunt's partner, the original charge was dismissed and dropped to a lesser charge of disturbing the peace-causing a loud noise (i never once raised my voice during the incident) an infraction, not a misdemeanor like the original charge.  If I had fought the original charge and lost i would have been sentenced to a year in county jail.

west-phoenix-az wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

No, I don't want to turn it into a race issue.  The law itself is based on race because it states the police can ask for documentation for anyone "who looks like an illegal alien".

Where in the bill does it say this?

AZ SB1070 wrote:

11-1051. B.  For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.  Any person who is arrested shall have the person's immigration status determined before the person is released.  The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c).  A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution.

west-phoenix-az wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

No, I don't want to turn it into a race issue.  The law itself is based on race because it states the police can ask for documentation for anyone "who looks like an illegal alien".

Where in the bill does it say this?

AZ SB1070 wrote:

11-1051. B.  For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.  Any person who is arrested shall have the person's immigration status determined before the person is released.  The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c).  A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution.

eleven bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

not at all.  I grew up here.  I live 5 houses and across the street from where this shit took place.  its a shitty shitty neighborhood where I figure this bitch just wanted to get off work early by filling the rest of her shift time with writing my arrest report.

Women cops, like women NCOs, are just shitheads all around man. They've always got something to prove and will never ever in a million years admit they are wrong.

I think that was the case.  I said something that made her look foolish in front of her partner so she snapped....but what I did violated no laws.
My 2nd lawyer schooled me in on how police officers use "resisting arrest" to justify an arrest where no real crime has been committed.  It isnt more obvious in my case since there was no other crime attached to my charge

Diesel_dyk wrote:

west-phoenix-az wrote:

Where in the bill does it say this?

AZ SB1070 wrote:

11-1051. B.  For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.  Any person who is arrested shall have the person's immigration status determined before the person is released.  The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c).  A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution.

Here you go.... here's the answer you're not going to like and most liekly are going to gloss over because it doesn't compute for you.
Where does it say that? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ does nobody read?

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Reasonable suspicion = how you look... how else do you decide there is a reasonable suspicion that a person is illegal.

Last edited by west-phoenix-az (2010-05-14 13:54:44)

west-phoenix-az wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I bolded the part I was talking about. 

The police cannot illegally search cars but they do.  Police cannot illegally search homes but they do.  What makes you think they aren't going to abuse this law?  Don't be naive.

So what are you saying?
No new laws because some police are criminal themselves?
Throw out all laws?
Get rid of police?


Some cops are criminals. I think we all know that. We should find a way to deal with them, instead of using it as an excuse to not pass laws.

west-phoenix-az wrote:

Diesel_dyk wrote:

west-phoenix-az wrote:

Where in the bill does it say this?

Here you go.... here's the answer you're not going to like and most liekly are going to gloss over because it doesn't compute for you.
Where does it say that? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ does nobody read?

Did you fail to read the underlined part?
If they stop someone because they are Mexican they are solely considering race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of the law, which is specifically not allowed.

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Reasonable suspicion = how you look... how else do you decide there is a reasonable suspicion that a person is illegal.

By stopping them for a legal reason, then requesting their identification (ID or any other info used to identify you, like name, date of birth and social security number). Just like they always do. When you can't produce anything they can verify you are most likely wanted or illegal. They'll then go the federal route for verification.

What happens now is an illegal is stopped for a traffic violation, the feds are called, the feds don't show up, the local police release the illegal. Is that the way you think it should be?

Diesel_dyk wrote:

You say "When you can't produce anything they can verify you are most likely wanted or illegal." Wow that's a really crappy assumption for you to make. It would really suck for the citizen who is neither illegal nor wanted, that they should be inconvenienced by this bad law based solely on how they look.

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Another asked and aswered question is what would be a better law? that's easy, go after the employers and get rid of the supply of jobs. That would be targeting the law so that it only applies to illegals. Instead of this BS dragnet that's going to harrass citizens based on how they look.

Diesel_dyk wrote:

So answer the question how is this law NOT going to cause harm or be an inconvenience to citizens who happen to look like an illegal?
hmmm I waiting for an answer...... anyone... anyone.... anyone....

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

It's obvious you are trying to explain a simple concept to imbeciles.

Last edited by west-phoenix-az (2010-05-14 15:14:57)

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

west-phoenix-az wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I bolded the part I was talking about. 

The police cannot illegally search cars but they do.  Police cannot illegally search homes but they do.  What makes you think they aren't going to abuse this law?  Don't be naive.

So what are you saying?
No new laws because some police are criminal themselves?
Throw out all laws?
Get rid of police?


Some cops are criminals. I think we all know that. We should find a way to deal with them, instead of using it as an excuse to not pass laws.

Oh look, another guy that wants to make up my argument so he can dispute it.  We should just let you and lowing create positions to debunk.  Masters of debate.

No, we should create laws that allow for the least amount of subjectivity to make it as hard as possible for anyone to misinterpret.

Diesel_dyk wrote:

What AZ is asking is that citizens who look like illegals should just take one for the team, because its in the state's interests.

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Right? Of course that ignores the fact that more effective measures should have been passed, like going after the employers. But then again aren't small business owners largely GOP supporters.