Holocaust denial

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Holocaust denial

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Should Holocaust denial be illegal?

Yes	25%	25% - 12
No	75%	75% - 36
Total: 48

2010-05-04 04:18:10

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6960|Canberra, AUS

venom6 wrote:
Its so boring! Nobody cares about holocaust. In history there were much more serious tragedies then this. They should quit yelling it over and over again. If someone is saying a bad word about it, he is an antisemite. I think holocaust should be researched, so teh whole world would know the truth, that there are big lies in it.

Anyone cares about the 110 million victims of communism? Its a bigger tragedy then the death of a few thousend. Anyone mentioned the victims of colonization by British, Spanish and French troops?

Lets mention them too also loudly!

/facepalm

there is a difference between systematic extermination of an entire race of people and, well, everything else.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-05-04 04:33:58

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6756

the winner's write history... it's an old saying and it's true - for better or for worse.

you cannot deny that the holocaust and the collective shock caused by the two great world wars caused irrepairable damage to the human consciousness; our era and the last century was defined by the great trauma suffered as a people, deeply-ingrained and affecting the deepest level of our psyche. the two world wars ended the Hegelian sense of 'progress' that had before driven all human endeavour; the hope somehow that all society, with its various reforms, revolutions and conflicts, was struggling towards some greater, liberal, spiritual and social good. enlightenment optimism, basically. after the two world wars, when we witnessed killing on a mass-scale with no decorum or humanity- all that was shocked out of us. after the holocaust, the new era of modernism was ushered in. history died. teleology and eschatology seemed to be fickle idealisms.

i think it's foolish to understate the effect the holocaust had. psychologically... subconsciously. the fact that black humour makes jokes out of anti-semitism and the holocaust is, to a degree, a psychological form of evidence that it is still with us today; a dark shadow on the collective human memory. perhaps by joking about it and 'trolling' the topic, we are trying to negate its influence and deny the shock-power it has had over us in the last century. regardless, it's definitely one of the most significant historical events in recent time. the two wars, the atom bomb and the holocaust. don't fuck with 'em.

Last edited by Uzique (2010-05-04 04:34:32)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-05-04 04:36:53

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6960|Canberra, AUS

Logical question/response, then, is whether is that shock has been a good thing or not. I suspect you don't think so.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-05-04 04:44:01

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6756

well it has fomented a completely new era of human existence: mirrored in the arts, in our culture, in our political ideologies (the ensuing chaos after the collapse of monarchism in europe, the fin-de-siecle, and the eventual collapse of all imperialism opened the gate wide for fascism and forms of leftist utopia). everything we have gone through as a people - starting as far back, i'd say, as the american and french revolutions - has spun us off on a new trajectory. fascism. the continued efforts to support classical liberalism and idealism above conservative and imperialist/monarchist states in europe. consumerism. materialism. the change in theatre and the visual arts: plots stopped being linear and plot-driven (in the sense defined by thinkers like Vladimir Propp in his theories on narrative), and started becoming cyclical - pointless - non-conformist. films, books, even paintings... stopped having a closure. basically you can theorize a whole lot of (tenuous) connections between the severing point at the end of the second world war, and all progress that has followed afterwards.

a famous post-structuralist academic once said: 'history is dead'. the point of recording history as a linear, progressing and forward-marching machine seemed futile in this new era. most productively of all, in my opinion, the clusterfuck that was the holocaust/wars gave birth to my favourite philosophy (and genre of literature)- post-modernism. i'll let you mull over this quote to see if it reinforces or elucidates upon anything ive randomly spouted on here:

"Post-modernism is arguably the most depressing philosophy ever to spring from the western mind. It is difficult to talk about post-modernism because nobody really understands it. It’s allusive to the point of being impossible to articulate. But what this philosophy basically says is that we’ve reached an endpoint in human history. That the modernist tradition of progress and ceaseless extension of the frontiers of innovation are now dead. Originality is dead. The avant-garde artistic tradition is dead. All religions and utopian visions are dead and resistance to the status quo is impossible because revolution too is now dead. Like it or not, we humans are stuck in a permanent crisis of meaning, a dark room from which we can never escape".

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-05-04 04:49:45

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5464|Sydney

You can't deny people the right to free speech.
But people who deny the holocaust are fucking retarded.

2010-05-04 04:52:56

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

Fukiyama lelz. Wars will still be fought, maybe not to a great extent such as WW2 but they will still be fought on political, ideological and economical reasons.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2010-05-04 05:02:01

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6960|Canberra, AUS

Uzique wrote:
well it has fomented a completely new era of human existence: mirrored in the arts, in our culture, in our political ideologies (the ensuing chaos after the collapse of monarchism in europe, the fin-de-siecle, and the eventual collapse of all imperialism opened the gate wide for fascism and forms of leftist utopia). everything we have gone through as a people - starting as far back, i'd say, as the american and french revolutions - has spun us off on a new trajectory. fascism. the continued efforts to support classical liberalism and idealism above conservative and imperialist/monarchist states in europe. consumerism. materialism. the change in theatre and the visual arts: plots stopped being linear and plot-driven (in the sense defined by thinkers like Vladimir Propp in his theories on narrative), and started becoming cyclical - pointless - non-conformist. films, books, even paintings... stopped having a closure. basically you can theorize a whole lot of (tenuous) connections between the severing point at the end of the second world war, and all progress that has followed afterwards.

a famous post-structuralist academic once said: 'history is dead'. the point of recording history as a linear, progressing and forward-marching machine seemed futile in this new era. most productively of all, in my opinion, the clusterfuck that was the holocaust/wars gave birth to my favourite philosophy (and genre of literature)- post-modernism. i'll let you mull over this quote to see if it reinforces or elucidates upon anything ive randomly spouted on here:

"Post-modernism is arguably the most depressing philosophy ever to spring from the western mind. It is difficult to talk about post-modernism because nobody really understands it. It’s allusive to the point of being impossible to articulate. But what this philosophy basically says is that we’ve reached an endpoint in human history. That the modernist tradition of progress and ceaseless extension of the frontiers of innovation are now dead. Originality is dead. The avant-garde artistic tradition is dead. All religions and utopian visions are dead and resistance to the status quo is impossible because revolution too is now dead. Like it or not, we humans are stuck in a permanent crisis of meaning, a dark room from which we can never escape".

Would it be an oversimplification to say that what happened in WWII put the last nail in the coffin of the widespread belief of predetermined linear destiny?

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-05-04 05:03:33

venom6: Since day One.; +247|6844|Hungary

Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm

2010-05-04 05:05:01

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm

Go fuck yourself you racist piece of shit.

2010-05-04 05:07:13

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6756

a lot of factors contributed to the collapse of enlightenment-optimism (most formally Hegelian 'progress').

but yes, i guess, to be reductionist, you could say the holocaust and the atom bomb collectively destroyed all faith in human 'goodness'.

hence the deep-rooted trauma: it wasn't just a genocide. it was a fuller realisation that any idealistic belief in our collective will to 'do good', were fucked. after the revolutions, after the fall of tyrannical monarchy, conservative and reactionary governments, bourgeoisie exploitation, imperialism etc. we thought we had a fresh slate to try various forms of utopia and new, radical systems of rule. they had all failed by the 50's. capitalism won the last great ideological battle, over communism, and life seemed to become a cyclical phenomenon: make money. there was no grand drive or motivation- just to live in the present and to indulge. as the quote says, it's kind of impossible to 'define' the post-modernist condition... but im sure you can at least see the general attitude that it is trying to highlight.

and hey, you dumbass. anything with the URL 'bible believers' is NOT going to be a good read. the fuck is wrong with you?

Last edited by Uzique (2010-05-04 05:07:48)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-05-04 05:07:31

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6960|Canberra, AUS

venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm

interesting in the same way creationism, or flat-earthism is interesting.

Uzique wrote:
a lot of factors contributed to the collapse of enlightenment-optimism (most formally Hegelian 'progress').

but yes, i guess, to be reductionist, you could say the holocaust and the atom bomb collectively destroyed all faith in human 'goodness'.

hence the deep-rooted trauma: it wasn't just a genocide. it was a fuller realisation that any idealistic belief in our collective will to 'do good', were fucked. after the revolutions, after the fall of tyrannical monarchy, conservative and reactionary governments, bourgeoisie exploitation, imperialism etc. we thought we had a fresh slate to try various forms of utopia and new, radical systems of rule. they had all failed by the 50's. capitalism won the last great ideological battle, over communism, and life seemed to become a cyclical phenomenon: make money. there was no grand drive or motivation- just to live in the present and to indulge. as the quote says, it's kind of impossible to 'define' the post-modernist condition... but im sure you can at least see the general attitude that it is trying to highlight.

and hey, you dumbass. anything with the URL 'bible believers' is NOT going to be a good read. the fuck is wrong with you?

yeah, i get you.

Last edited by Spark (2010-05-04 05:08:41)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-05-04 05:08:05

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5464|Sydney

venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm

People on a site called "bible believers" telling people the holocaust is a hoax.

That's the biggest piece of hypocrisy I've read in more than I can remember.

2010-05-04 06:38:37

Trotskygrad: бля; +354|6284|Vortex Ring State

Jaekus wrote:
venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
People on a site called "bible believers" telling people the holocaust is a hoax.

That's the biggest piece of hypocrisy I've read in more than I can remember.

ror.

2010-05-04 06:48:19

mr.hrundi: Wurstwassereis; +68|6723|Germany

Dilbert_X wrote:
No. People should be free to say whatever they want, however stupid or offensive.
Its handy to know who the stupid, offensive people are.

venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm

Q.E.D.

2010-05-04 06:51:46

jord: Member; +2,382|6963|The North, beyond the wall.

venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm

Fuck off troll.

2010-05-04 07:01:07

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

jord wrote:
venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
Fuck off troll.

You see? The system works.

OTOH When people mention the holocaust no mention is ever made of the Roma, homosexuals, communists, disabled etc.

Fuck Israel

2010-05-04 07:02:22

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5643|London, England

It should be allowed. Of course, those that ascribe to the belief that the Holocaust was a hoax are all a bunch of lunatic morons... but why silence them when we would never dare try to silence the Truthers and the Birthers and all the rest of the crackpot conspiracy theorists?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-05-04 07:09:09

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5643|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
jord wrote:
venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
Fuck off troll.
You see? The system works.

OTOH When people mention the holocaust no mention is ever made of the Roma, homosexuals, communists, disabled etc.

Weird. When I visited two Holocaust museums as a grade school student they made it a point to state that there were millions of Catholics, homosexuals, communists, and disabled killed in the Holocaust as well. My history books mentioned this as well.

2010-05-04 08:00:42

venom6: Since day One.; +247|6844|Hungary

Cybargs wrote:
venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
Go fuck yourself you racist piece of shit.

Thats the reaction from jews if anyone is questioning the whole holocaust thing. Freedom of speech right?
Exterminate every person who has a different opinion, or who sais this issue should be researched.

You are not even different from a racist nazi.

2010-05-04 08:04:09

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5643|London, England

venom6 wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
Go fuck yourself you racist piece of shit.
Thats the reaction from jews if anyone is questioning the whole holocaust thing. Freedom of speech right?
Exterminate every person who has a different opinion, or who sais this issue should be researched.

You are not even different from a racist nazi.

You're talking about one of the most well documented pieces of human history and saying it needs further research before you believe it? Really?

2010-05-04 08:15:16

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6934

venom6 wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
venom6 wrote:
Preatty intresting article. Worth reading.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
Go fuck yourself you racist piece of shit.
Thats the reaction from jews if anyone is questioning the whole holocaust thing. Freedom of speech right?
Exterminate every person who has a different opinion, or who sais this issue should be researched.

You are not even different from a racist nazi.

Since I cannot be fucked to read thousands of words of nonsense, for what purpose was the Holocaust made up?

2010-05-04 08:16:48

venom6: Since day One.; +247|6844|Hungary

Dont you thing that if the germans wanted to exterminate the jews in europe, they would choosen a much more simple way?
The killing with zyklon b needed a lot of personel and infrastructure. Wouldnt it be more simple and cheap to bomb the baracks from the air so killing thousends in a matter of minutes? Why dont the germans just drive the jews on foot in front of the troops on the easern front? So the soviet troops would have shoot them to death? No the germans used ags chambers and crematorium for a long lasting process.

All prisoners of the camps (not jews only) were working to death, as the german men were on the front. They say that 6 million jews (also others) were gassed and burned. You know how much dust is the result when they burn someone after he/she died. Imagine that 6 million people!
Thats a lot.

I dont say that no crimes were made and nobody died. The form how this happend and the number of victims is different.
Look for David Cole and David Irving videos on youtube.

2010-05-04 08:17:36

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5544|foggy bottom

holy shit wtf going on here?

Tu Stultus Es

2010-05-04 08:19:24

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6756

venom6 is the kind of intellectual heavyweight that would be voting BNP in the upcoming election if he was an english citizen

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-05-04 08:20:17

jord: Member; +2,382|6963|The North, beyond the wall.

Fuck sake. freedom of speech only works in public when you can give tools a swift jab to the womb and then mug them.

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venom6 wrote:

Uzique wrote:

venom6 wrote:

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Uzique wrote:

venom6 wrote:

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Dilbert_X wrote:

venom6 wrote:

venom6 wrote:

jord wrote:

venom6 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

jord wrote:

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