BF2S Forums [D&ST Political Slider 2010]

JohnG@lt wrote:

While fascism is a specific political ideology, it has become synonymous with authoritarianism. lowing is using it as a synonym. Just accept that and end the thread.

JahManRed wrote:

My politics have remained the same throughout. But being from Northern Ireland its a tribal vote. So its religious based. So either you want a united Ireland or you want to maintain the union with the UK.

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

While fascism is a specific political ideology, it has become synonymous with authoritarianism. lowing is using it as a synonym. Just accept that and end the thread.

But that isn't valid here either. Because Obama's administration isn't authoritarian.

He's just made a retarded claim, that everyone can see is nonsensical. Nothing to do with synonyms. All to do with him not understanding the meaning of the word.

So you are saying that the govt. has not taken over GM when it bought it, fired the CEO,  dictates to the board of directors, and impose salary caps..............What exactly is your definition of govt. control anyway?

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

So you are saying that the govt. has not taken over GM when it bought it, fired the CEO,  dictates to the board of directors, and impose salary caps..............What exactly is your definition of govt. control anyway?

It does happen from time to time, particularly under socialist governments. How does this relate to fascism? These are left-wing responses through and through. Government intervention to save jobs is very left-wing.


When the government do not have a mandate from the people, that's when it becomes authoritarian. Obama has a mandate from the people and a reasonably strong opposition. Therefore he's a democratic leader not an authoritarian one. He couldn't become an authoritarian leader even if he wanted to.

I don't recall the people mandating Obama to buy GM, or to take over the health care industry. In fact the polls reveal exactly the opposite. By the way....Hitler was elected as well.  So much for that argument

lowing wrote:

Sorry, I do not view govt. take over of health care and private enterprise as nit picking. THese things are govt controlled now.

What you are arguing with the dictionary. the word itself, and you are using peoples interpretation of that word, IE 14 characteristics of fascism as the definition. That is not the definition.

lowing wrote:

taken from http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= … gMvyRoFoP0

not really sure how you can not come to the conclusion that this is govt. taking over.

and per the definition of fascism a govt. controlling private industry is fascist. Really no way around that. except through emotional outbursts of Hitler and Mussolini references, which I am not referencing.

Last edited by BLdw (2010-05-07 11:29:01)

lowing wrote:

I do not have to, the definition I posted (and not made up) holds that govt. control over private industry is fascist action. I did not call Obama Hitler and I did not make claims to Mussolini's Italy or the 3rd Reich. Those are others extremities to the word. I am going with what it is without all of the emotional drama attached to it.

lowing wrote:

nope never made that claim. However govt. control over private industry is a facet of fascism, and Obama has done that. Regardless if you like it or not.

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

But that isn't valid here either. Because Obama's administration isn't authoritarian.

He's just made a retarded claim, that everyone can see is nonsensical. Nothing to do with synonyms. All to do with him not understanding the meaning of the word.

So you are saying that the govt. has not taken over GM when it bought it, fired the CEO,  dictates to the board of directors, and impose salary caps..............What exactly is your definition of govt. control anyway?

It does happen from time to time, particularly under socialist governments. How does this relate to fascism? These are left-wing responses through and through. Government intervention to save jobs is very left-wing.


When the government do not have a mandate from the people, that's when it becomes authoritarian. Obama has a mandate from the people and a reasonably strong opposition. Therefore he's a democratic leader not an authoritarian one. He couldn't become an authoritarian leader even if he wanted to.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-05-07 14:08:26)

lowing wrote:

Would it help if I said "NEO-FASCIST"

Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement

lowing wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

He does not fall in line with all of these.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

I take note you saids he does not fall in line with ALL of these...Meanig he must fall in line with SOME of these.....so elaborate please.

Kmarion wrote:

The 14 characteristics are:

   1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
      Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

   2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
      Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

   3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
      The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

   4. Supremacy of the Military
      Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

   5. Rampant Sexism
      The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

   6. Controlled Mass Media
      Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

   7. Obsession with National Security
      Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

   8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
      Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

   9. Corporate Power is Protected
      The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

  10. Labor Power is Suppressed
      Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

  11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
      Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

  12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
      Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

  13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
      Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

  14. Fraudulent Elections
      Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

I highlighted the ones he does not fall in line with.. as you can see it is most of them. The ones that are not highlighted are debatable, at best.