List of motherboard manufacturers in order of preference

2010-04-16 09:21:04

#26

FloppY_: +1,010|6530|Denmark aka Automotive Hell

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:
FloppY_ wrote:
Well Panz & Co. comparing EVGA X58 SLI Micro and ASUS Rampage II GENE (which are equally priced)

The EVGA just cannot compete...

The only feature it has over the GENE is SLi (which is useless to me)
Cannot compete? What exactly in the ASUS one is better than the EVGA? (SLi is not a negative thing)

For one the ASUS has X-fi EAX and it has eSata.
The 4/8pin power plug is slightly better placed on the Asus
The onboard buttons on the Asus looks better imo but ultimately this matters little...
The asus has 4pin fan connectors where the EVGA has 3 regular and one 4pin
You know more about their overclocking features than I, but I don't do overclocking,, atleast haven't done so yet...

The EVGA looks sexy as hell though...

(I never said it was, I just said I had no use for it )

Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me

2010-04-16 09:35:03

#27

Freezer7Pro: I don't come here a lot anymore.; +1,447|6441|Winland

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:
Freezer7Pro wrote:
I put Gigabyte on top, even though I don't own a single one.

Why? Because I've never seen any other motherboard manufacturer over-size the CPU power supply so heavily. Most of their new boards could push way over a kilo-Watt into the CPU.
You should see the latest EVGA digital PWMs. Classified is case in point. Dual 8pin power connectors just for CPU and manually adjustable PWM frequenzy.

My list: EVGA > ASUS > GIGABYTE > rest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MSI

Those features may be cool, but I honestly can't see the point. You aren't gonna draw 960W to the CPU, and adjusting the PWM frequency will just make the regulator less efficient.

The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP

2010-04-16 09:39:42

#28

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5422|Sydney

Again, limited knowledge here but Gigabyte for their dual BIOS, HDMI support and quite low price.

IMO, great quality with low price =win.

2010-04-16 10:59:06

#29

mikkel: Member; +383|6845

I can't say that I'd lump AsRock in with 'the bad'. Certainly not next to some of the names in that category.

2010-04-16 11:08:05

#30

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6658|Finland

Freezer7Pro wrote:
Those features may be cool, but I honestly can't see the point. You aren't gonna draw 960W to the CPU, and adjusting the PWM frequency will just make the regulator less efficient.

Less efficient = more heat, yes.

But the PWM frequenzy/quality has real impact in how low vcore is enough for the CPU to be stable. One of the things that allow EVGA boards use less vcore for same settings than competition. I needed ~1.20Vcore on my P6T Deluxe, but 1.165Vcore is enough for same clocks on the Classified when bumb up the PWM a notch.

Last edited by GC_PaNzerFIN (2010-04-16 11:10:06)

3930K | H100i | RIVF | 16GB DDR3 | GTX 480 | AX750 | 800D | 512GB SSD | 3TB HDD | Xonar DX | W8

2010-04-16 11:20:18

#31

Jaekus: I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose; +957|5422|Sydney

Tried a site like GeekstoGo?

Those kinda of sites can offer some pretty good advice when supplied detailed info (not suggesting the same can't happen here though).

2010-04-16 11:51:28

#32

FloppY_: +1,010|6530|Denmark aka Automotive Hell

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:
Freezer7Pro wrote:
Those features may be cool, but I honestly can't see the point. You aren't gonna draw 960W to the CPU, and adjusting the PWM frequency will just make the regulator less efficient.
Less efficient = more heat, yes.

But the PWM frequenzy/quality has real impact in how low vcore is enough for the CPU to be stable. One of the things that allow EVGA boards use less vcore for same settings than competition. I needed ~1.20Vcore on my P6T Deluxe, but 1.165Vcore is enough for same clocks on the Classified when bumb up the PWM a notch.

FloppY_ wrote:
GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:
FloppY_ wrote:
Well Panz & Co. comparing EVGA X58 SLI Micro and ASUS Rampage II GENE (which are equally priced)

The EVGA just cannot compete...

The only feature it has over the GENE is SLi (which is useless to me)
Cannot compete? What exactly in the ASUS one is better than the EVGA? (SLi is not a negative thing)
For one the ASUS has X-fi EAX and it has eSata.
The 4/8pin power plug is slightly better placed on the Asus
The onboard buttons on the Asus looks better imo but ultimately this matters little...
The asus has 4pin fan connectors where the EVGA has 3 regular and one 4pin
You know more about their overclocking features than I, but I don't do overclocking,, atleast haven't done so yet...

The EVGA looks sexy as hell though...

(I never said it was, I just said I had no use for it )

Dont be forgetting me panz

Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me

2010-04-16 12:07:21

#33

-Whiteroom-: Pineapplewhat; +572|6902|BC, Canada

I have heard good about DFI but apparently they have weird BIOS setups...

I did a build with a Biostar mobo for a friend, didnt do much with it though. just a net and pics PC.

2010-04-16 12:29:03

#34

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6658|Finland

FloppY_ wrote:
For one the ASUS has X-fi EAX and it has eSata.
The 4/8pin power plug is slightly better placed on the Asus
The onboard buttons on the Asus looks better imo but ultimately this matters little...
The asus has 4pin fan connectors where the EVGA has 3 regular and one 4pin
You know more about their overclocking features than I, but I don't do overclocking,, atleast haven't done so yet...

The CPU power connector is like couple inches different spot, and seems to be in a bit more cramped spot on the asus board than on EVGA. Pretty much meaningless.

There really isn't need for more than one PWM fan plug, every semi decent fan uses 3pin and is not PWM controlled.

On board power buttons look better? They light up equally the same when the PC is on if thats what you care about.

The stuff ASUS bundles with the boards hardly has anything to do with X-FI or anything for that matter. Nice X-FI logo for the mobo box tho for PR...

Price is same.

EVGA boards have very OC oriented BIOSes, both work out equally for 'regular user'. EVGA BIOSses giving more freedom for overclockers.

= Saying one cannot compete with other is wishful thinking, I would have hard time choosing which one for a stock setup.

Last edited by GC_PaNzerFIN (2010-04-16 12:29:47)

3930K | H100i | RIVF | 16GB DDR3 | GTX 480 | AX750 | 800D | 512GB SSD | 3TB HDD | Xonar DX | W8

2010-04-16 12:42:29

#35

Freezer7Pro: I don't come here a lot anymore.; +1,447|6441|Winland

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:
Freezer7Pro wrote:
Those features may be cool, but I honestly can't see the point. You aren't gonna draw 960W to the CPU, and adjusting the PWM frequency will just make the regulator less efficient.
Less efficient = more heat, yes.

But the PWM frequenzy/quality has real impact in how low vcore is enough for the CPU to be stable. One of the things that allow EVGA boards use less vcore for same settings than competition. I needed ~1.20Vcore on my P6T Deluxe, but 1.165Vcore is enough for same clocks on the Classified when bumb up the PWM a notch.

The same result could be achieved by using bigger filter caps on the secondary side of the regulator.

And unless you're using an oscilloscope to measure those voltages, I doubt they're even anywhere near accurate enough to do comparisons.

Oh, and depending on how the regulator is designed, you might get a higher voltage on the secondary side when you change the PWM frequency. And that's something you aren't going to notice unless you use an oscilloscope.

Last edited by Freezer7Pro (2010-04-16 12:45:41)

The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP

2010-04-16 13:00:30

#36

FloppY_: +1,010|6530|Denmark aka Automotive Hell

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:
FloppY_ wrote:
For one the ASUS has X-fi EAX and it has eSata.
The 4/8pin power plug is slightly better placed on the Asus
The onboard buttons on the Asus looks better imo but ultimately this matters little...
The asus has 4pin fan connectors where the EVGA has 3 regular and one 4pin
You know more about their overclocking features than I, but I don't do overclocking,, atleast haven't done so yet...
The CPU power connector is like couple inches different spot, and seems to be in a bit more cramped spot on the asus board than on EVGA. Pretty much meaningless.

There really isn't need for more than one PWM fan plug, every semi decent fan uses 3pin and is not PWM controlled.

On board power buttons look better? They light up equally the same when the PC is on if thats what you care about.

The stuff ASUS bundles with the boards hardly has anything to do with X-FI or anything for that matter. Nice X-FI logo for the mobo box tho for PR...

Price is same.

EVGA boards have very OC oriented BIOSes, both work out equally for 'regular user'. EVGA BIOSses giving more freedom for overclockers.

= Saying one cannot compete with other is wishful thinking, I would have hard time choosing which one for a stock setup.

Hmm,, The asus has onboard X-Fi where as the other has a "regular" 8channel audio onboard chip.

Two PWM plugs would come in handy since the CPU cooler will fit two fans, and I like having fans adjust their speed through temp. readings...

eSata is quite a plus too, considering I have two external HDDs both capable of using the interface...

But the EVGA looks mighty fine

EVGA is slightly cheaper than the ASUS here tbh...

By "cannot compete with the other" I obviously mean for my current needs... not everyone elses...

Decisions, Decisions, Decisions,

Last edited by FloppY_ (2010-04-16 13:02:43)

Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me

2010-04-16 13:02:18

#37

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6658|Finland

So now you need very expensive oscilloscope for voltage measuring? EVGA board has voltage measurement points. But damn sure won't need oscilloscope for Vcore measuring, thats just overkill.

Or more important, have you personally tried if there is any help from tuning the PWM?

There is a reason why the Classified has its reputation, 10 phase digital PWM from Volterra coupled with the big cap where you mentioned...

Since its unlikely you have had a board with adjustable PWM, after 4GHz higher PWM frequenzy can make otherwise non booting settings work out fine. You can read all you want about the Classified, google finds some good articles about it, or just go to xs and you find it can do with lower voltages than any other board out there.

Gigabytes have some vdrop, some boards more, some less, which makes it harder to use as low Vcore.

Last edited by GC_PaNzerFIN (2010-04-16 13:09:11)

3930K | H100i | RIVF | 16GB DDR3 | GTX 480 | AX750 | 800D | 512GB SSD | 3TB HDD | Xonar DX | W8

2010-04-16 13:25:14

#38

Freezer7Pro: I don't come here a lot anymore.; +1,447|6441|Winland

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:
So now you need very expensive oscilloscope for voltage measuring? EVGA board has voltage measurement points. But damn sure won't need oscilloscope for Vcore measuring, thats just overkill.

Or more important, have you personally tried if there is any help from tuning the PWM?

There is a reason why the Classified has its reputation, 10 phase digital PWM from Volterra coupled with the big cap where you mentioned...

Since its unlikely you have had a board with adjustable PWM, after 4GHz higher PWM frequenzy can make otherwise non booting settings work out fine. You can read all you want about the Classified, google finds some good articles about it, or just go to xs and you find it can do with lower voltages than any other board out there.

Gigabytes have some vdrop, some boards more, some less, which makes it harder to use as low Vcore.

My point is that motherboard sensors are incredibly inaccurate, and won't even give you a clue about the ripple. They're fine to check if your CPU has 1 or 1.2V, but that's about it.

Raising the PWM frequency will make the life of the capacitors on the secondary easier and probably reduce ripple a bit, but if you aren't replacing the coils at the same time, the regulator won't be operating the way it was intended. If they were to just put really huge ultra-low impedance caps in it, the effect of the setting would be more or less eliminated.

And if raising PWM frequency increases performance, why don't they just make it really high from the beginning? If you size the coils accordingly, you'd have the best of both worlds.

The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP

2010-04-16 13:35:33

#39

GC_PaNzerFIN: Work and study @ Technical Uni; +528|6658|Finland

The PWM works at very high frequenzy out of the box. But there is option to use the potential even further under heavy load.
Reason for not using full blast for stock is the hotter PWM and there is no need for stock systems.

And they did go for the so called "super cap" right next to CPU as well.

Here is the Classified PWM: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2727

3930K | H100i | RIVF | 16GB DDR3 | GTX 480 | AX750 | 800D | 512GB SSD | 3TB HDD | Xonar DX | W8

BF2S Forums List of motherboard manufacturers in order of preference

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

FloppY_ wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

Freezer7Pro wrote:

Freezer7Pro wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

Freezer7Pro wrote:

FloppY_ wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

FloppY_ wrote:

FloppY_ wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

Freezer7Pro wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

FloppY_ wrote:

GC_PaNzerFIN wrote:

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