Ignoring your personal politics on the matter, out of the things he said he'd do whilst campaigning and the things he has accomplished whilst in office, do you think that his presidency has been successful? I guess to make things fair, who would be the last president that you'd consider to be successful?
to a degree. considering the ridiculous amount of opposition and I heard something like he broke 16 campaign promises (which seems kinda small really) He should have never said anything about gitmo.
Tu Stultus Es
The western world is so cynical of politicians we will never have a "good" one again.
no. most of the policies instituted by president Bush are in effect (see Gitmo, etc.) and he hasn't made the process of effecting policy 'transparent', and even campaigned on making the healthcare debates televised on C-span (which, when it came down to it, the repubs weren't too happy with, fearing a 'trap'.)
in my lifetime i'd say, except for that bit at the end, Nixon was the most successful in stating his policy and position, and then carrying it out.
in my lifetime i'd say, except for that bit at the end, Nixon was the most successful in stating his policy and position, and then carrying it out.
one might argue nixon paved the way for china to surpass the US in economic and military strength.
Tu Stultus Es
i certainly won't argue the point. there are a billion chinese that probably wouldn't either . . .eleven bravo wrote:
one might argue nixon paved the way for china to surpass the US in economic and military strength.
selling US treasuries to china is what brought us under their trillion plus something debt
Last edited by eleven bravo (2010-03-23 10:19:32)
Tu Stultus Es
the relationship we have with china has certainly benefited china more than it has us.
Tu Stultus Es
I'd say the T bills have kept you guys afloat most of the time in Iraq and Afghanistan. The economy of the US is terribly ran by the fed...eleven bravo wrote:
selling US treasuries to china is what brought us under their trillion plus something debt
we're talking about the last 40 years not the last 9. and no, the war on terror has cost the US around 10 billion a month (at least in Iraq) totalling probably more than a trillion. our GDP is 14+trillion.Cybargs wrote:
I'd say the T bills have kept you guys afloat most of the time in Iraq and Afghanistan. The economy of the US is terribly ran by the fed...eleven bravo wrote:
selling US treasuries to china is what brought us under their trillion plus something debt
Tu Stultus Es
This is why Barry sucks as a president
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
I'd say tax cuts have a large role to play too and unnecessary government spending. Well technically, anyone can "buy" a T-Bill, and I'm sure the Fed buys up a lot of bonds from all over the world as well.eleven bravo wrote:
we're talking about the last 40 years not the last 9. and no, the war on terror has cost the US around 10 billion a month (at least in Iraq) totalling probably more than a trillion. our GDP is 14+trillion.Cybargs wrote:
I'd say the T bills have kept you guys afloat most of the time in Iraq and Afghanistan. The economy of the US is terribly ran by the fed...eleven bravo wrote:
selling US treasuries to china is what brought us under their trillion plus something debt
Well the US PPP really grew in the last 20 years as cheap labour goods came in from SE Asia, and as we chinese say "you fucking greedin american man so much money man, i sell you daughter 2 dorrar."
Trade wise, America has benefited A LOT from cheap Chinese goods (used to be Taiwan...). But however I do agree the large trade deficit is well... troubling. China is being all protectionist about its industries now, whilst complain about Americans not trading enough with China.
India and Indonesia is on the ticket list for development.
To about ROC and Nixon: Yeah Nixon REALLY fucked us over by not recognizing Taiwan as a separate sovereign state... And we lost not only a UN seat, but a fucking veto seat.
He's already pushed through his main manifesto point - so pretty successful really.
he has done everything bush did so...........no. and this healthcare thing was NOT what he wanted. he had to give lots of people lots of stuff to make it work.
Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-03-23 11:00:34)
I think he's compromised on most of his agenda.
Winning the Peace Prize for being in office for three weeks probably makes anything he does a success.
Winning the Peace Prize for being in office for three weeks probably makes anything he does a success.
Last edited by Pug (2010-03-23 11:15:45)
11 Bravo wrote:
he has done everything bush did so...........no. and this healthcare thing was NOT what he wanted. he had to give lots of people lots of stuff to make it work.
Hurricane2k9 wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:
he has done everything bush did so...........no. and this healthcare thing was NOT what he wanted. he had to give lots of people lots of stuff to make it work.
Henry Kissingereleven bravo wrote:
one might argue nixon paved the way for china to surpass the US in economic and military strength.
PBO is fairing well considering he started in a giant fiscal hole which would have had a GOP president and congress crying the necessity for austerity programs and saying that they would have to cut entitlements to the bone. If you consider that the PBO alternative, then just holding the line is a huge success... unless of course you're in the group that wants to see austerity measures.
Its an old conservative trick to tie the hands of future govts by running up the debt so that the other party takes over only to find that the only prudent course of action is austerity. The party breaks all their election promises and finds themself ousted int he next election (hmmm sounds like a script the GOP are trying to follow, fancy that)... but in this case, the economy is so bad and the situtaion for the middle class is so dire that a dose of keynes is required and any savings that the middle class can see, such as a deflection in the rise of health insurance costs will also help the economy recover. and God help us if we had Reagan right now... that old man would be trickling down incontinent urine all over us and have us all in pauper prisons owned by a resurrected ENRON and run by Cheney.
In context... PBO is doing pretty good
Its an old conservative trick to tie the hands of future govts by running up the debt so that the other party takes over only to find that the only prudent course of action is austerity. The party breaks all their election promises and finds themself ousted int he next election (hmmm sounds like a script the GOP are trying to follow, fancy that)... but in this case, the economy is so bad and the situtaion for the middle class is so dire that a dose of keynes is required and any savings that the middle class can see, such as a deflection in the rise of health insurance costs will also help the economy recover. and God help us if we had Reagan right now... that old man would be trickling down incontinent urine all over us and have us all in pauper prisons owned by a resurrected ENRON and run by Cheney.
In context... PBO is doing pretty good
He got health care done.
And it is real change and all these states flinging lawsuits are spinning their wheels.
The supreme court will simply rule that health care or lack thereof affects interstate commerce, and then federal law trumps state law. Done.
If obama just laid low on immigration reform until or if he got a second term he would likely do okay on his change scorecard.
Instead, he will ram immigration reform hard down our throats and create a lot of anger
The smartest thing he could do is jumpstart the economy. If the economy roars back he will be vindicated as a success. If not, healthcare reform fails due to insufficient funds.
And it is real change and all these states flinging lawsuits are spinning their wheels.
The supreme court will simply rule that health care or lack thereof affects interstate commerce, and then federal law trumps state law. Done.
If obama just laid low on immigration reform until or if he got a second term he would likely do okay on his change scorecard.
Instead, he will ram immigration reform hard down our throats and create a lot of anger
The smartest thing he could do is jumpstart the economy. If the economy roars back he will be vindicated as a success. If not, healthcare reform fails due to insufficient funds.
He extended the Patriot Act. Yes.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
The new health care is bullshit. There is no more middle class in America. For the middle class people this makes it harder for us and we move down to the slightly lower class, which isn't bad, but the middle class runs the economy!!! If the middle class is not buying anything than our economy will stay down. There is now just a poor and a rich class.
How do you ignore your personal politics when giving your opinion of a president. Successful could mean a lot of things: a) he helped himself, b) he helped his party, c) he helped his constituents, d) he helped the country.ghettoperson wrote:
Ignoring your personal politics on the matter, out of the things he said he'd do whilst campaigning and the things he has accomplished whilst in office, do you think that his presidency has been successful? I guess to make things fair, who would be the last president that you'd consider to be successful?
Does a politician do the wrong thing and succeed or is the accolade reserved for the right things only?
Has he achieved what he said he was going to do, and if he has has it benefited the country?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
How do you ignore your personal politics when giving your opinion of a president. Successful could mean a lot of things: a) he helped himself, b) he helped his party, c) he helped his constituents, d) he helped the country.ghettoperson wrote:
Ignoring your personal politics on the matter, out of the things he said he'd do whilst campaigning and the things he has accomplished whilst in office, do you think that his presidency has been successful? I guess to make things fair, who would be the last president that you'd consider to be successful?
Does a politician do the wrong thing and succeed or is the accolade reserved for the right things only?
I think a better a question is...
Is it possible to successfully run a country so divided along political lines?
I'm starting to think that it doesn't matter who's president, because lobbyism seems to really be running things while the average person is either complacent or just flat out stupid.
Welcome to idiocracy....
Is it possible to successfully run a country so divided along political lines?
I'm starting to think that it doesn't matter who's president, because lobbyism seems to really be running things while the average person is either complacent or just flat out stupid.
Welcome to idiocracy....