FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Another excellent STRATFOR article.

A few key excerpts that lay down the historical build-up:

On Middle Eastern Anti-American Sentiment
Begin with the claim that U.S. support for Israel generates anti-Americanism in the Arab and Islamic world. While such support undoubtedly contributes to the phenomenon, it hardly explains it. The fundamental problem with the theory is that Arab anti-Americanism predates significant U.S. support for Israel. Until 1967, the United States gave very little aid to Israel. What aid Washington gave was in the form of very limited loans to purchase agricultural products from the United States — a program that many countries in the world participated in. It was France, not the United States, which was the primary supplier of weapons to Israeli.

In 1956, Israel invaded the Sinai while Britain and France seized the Suez Canal, which the Egyptian government of Gamal Abdul Nasser had nationalized. The Eisenhower administration intervened — against Israel and on the side of Egypt. Under U.S. pressure, the British, French and Israelis were forced to withdraw. There were widespread charges that the Eisenhower administration was pro-Arab and anti-Israeli; certainly no one could argue that Eisenhower was significantly pro-Israel.

In spite of this, Nasser entered into a series of major agreements with the Soviet Union. Egypt effectively became a Soviet ally, the recipient of massive Soviet aid and a center of anti-American rhetoric. Whatever his reasons — and they had to do with U.S. unwillingness to give Egypt massive aid — Egypt’s anti-American attitude had nothing to do with the Israelis, save perhaps that the United States was not prepared to join Egypt in trying to destroy Israel.

Two major political events took place in 1963: left-wing political coups in Syria and Iraq that brought the Baathist Party to power in both countries. Note that this took place pre-1967, i.e., before the United States became closely aligned with Israel. Both regimes were pro-Soviet and anti-American, but either could have been responding to U.S. support for Israel because there wasn’t much.

In 1964, Washington gave Cairo the first significant U.S. military aid in the form of Hawk missiles, but it gave those to other Arab countries, too, in response to the coups in Iraq and Syria. The United States feared the Soviets would base fighters in those two countries, so it began installing anti-air systems to try to block potential Soviet airstrikes on Saudi Arabia.

In 1967, France broke with Israel over the Arab-Israeli conflict that year. The United States began significant aid to Israel. In 1973, after the Syrian and Egyptian attack on Israel, the U.S. began massive assistance. In 1974 this amounted to about 25 percent of Israeli gross domestic product (GDP). The aid has continued at roughly the same level, but given the massive growth of the Israeli economy, it now amounts to about 2.5 percent of Israeli GDP.

The point here is that the United States was not actively involved in supporting Israel prior to 1967, yet anti-Americanism in the Arab world was rampant. The Arabs might have blamed the United States for Israel, but there was little empirical basis for this claim. Certainly, U.S. aid commenced in 1967 and surged in 1974, but the argument that eliminating support for Israel would cause anti-Americanism to decline must first explain the origins of anti-Americanism, which substantially predated American support for Israel. In fact, it is not clear that Arab anti-Americanism was greater after the initiation of major aid to Israel than before. Indeed, Egypt, the most important Arab country, shifted its position to a pro-American stance after the 1973 war in the face of U.S. aid.
It goes back to the Cold War and countering Soviet expansion in the region.

The Importance of Israel Today...Strategically
Let’s now consider the assumption that Israel is a critical U.S. asset. American grand strategy has always been derived from British grand strategy. The United States seeks to maintain regional balances of power in order to avoid the emergence of larger powers that can threaten U.S. interests. The Cold War was a massive exercise in the balance of power, pitting an American-sponsored worldwide alliance system against one formed by the Soviet Union. Since the end of the Cold War, the United States has acted a number of times against regional hegemons: Iraq in 1990-91, Serbia in 1999 and so on.

In the area called generally the Middle East, but which we prefer to think of as the area between the Mediterranean and the Hindu Kush, there are three intrinsic regional balances. One is the Arab-Israeli balance of power. The second is the Iran-Iraq balance. The third is the Indo-Pakistani balance of power. The American goal in each balance is not so much stability as it is the mutual neutralization of local powers by other local powers.

Two of the three regional balances of power are collapsed or in jeopardy. The 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq and the failure quickly to put a strong, anti-Iranian government in place Baghdad, has led to the collapse of the central balance of power — with little hope of resurrection. The eastern balance of power between Pakistan and India is also in danger of toppling. The Afghan war has caused profound stresses in Pakistan, and there are scenarios in which we can imagine Pakistan’s power dramatically weakening or even cracking. It is unclear how this will evolve, but what is clear is that it is not in the interest of the United States because it would destroy the native balance of power with India. The United States does not want to see India as the unchallenged power in the subcontinent any more than it wants to see Pakistan in that position. The United States needs a strong Pakistan to balance India, and its problem now is how to manage the Afghan war — a side issue strategically — without undermining the strategic interest of the United States, an Indo-Pakistani balance of power.

The western balance of power, Israel and the surrounding states, is relatively stable. What is most important to the United States at this point is that this balance of power also not destabilize. In this sense, Israel is an important strategic asset. But in the broader picture, where the United States is dealing with the collapse of the central balance of power and with the destabilization of the eastern balance of power, Washington does not want or need the destabilization of the western balance — between the Israelis and Arabs — at this time. U.S. “bandwidth” is already stretched to the limit. Washington does not need another problem. Nor does it need instability in this region complicating things in the other regions.

Note that the United States is interested in maintaining the balance of power. This means that the U.S. interest is in a stable set of relations, with no one power becoming excessively powerful and therefore unmanageable by the United States. Israel is already the dominant power in the region, and the degree to which Syria, Jordan and Egypt contain Israel is limited. Israel is moving from the position of an American ally maintaining a balance of power to a regional hegemon in its own right operating outside the framework of American interests.

The United States above all wants to ensure continuity after Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak dies. It wants to ensure that the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan remains stable. And in its attempts to manage the situation in the center and east, it wants to ensure that nothing happens in the west to further complicate an already-enormously complex situation.

There is very little Israel can do to help the United States in the center and eastern balances. On the other hand, if the western balance of power were to collapse — due to anything from a collapse of the Egyptian regime to a new Israeli war with Hezbollah — the United States might find itself drawn into that conflict, while a new intifada in the Palestinian territories would not help matters either. It is unknown what effect this would have in the other balances of power, but the United States is operating at the limits of its power to try to manage these situations. Israel cannot help there, but it could hurt, for example by initiating an attack on Iran outside the framework of American planning. Therefore, the United States wants one thing from Israel now: for Israel to do nothing that could possibly destabilize the western balance of power or make America’s task more difficult in the other regions.
The bottomline for Netanyahu
The fact is that while the argument that U.S. Israel policy caused anti-Americanism in the region may not be altogether true, the United States does not need any further challenges or stresses. Nations overwhelmed by challenges can behave in unpredictable ways. Netanyahu’s decision to confront the United States at this time on this issue creates an unpredictability that would seem excessive to Israel’s long term interests. Expecting the American political process to protect Israel from the consequences is not necessarily gauging the American mood at the moment.

The national interest of both countries is to maximize their freedom to maneuver. The Israelis have a temporary advantage because of American interests elsewhere in the region. But that creates a long-term threat. With two wars going on and two regional balances in shambles or tottering, the United States does not need a new crisis in the third. Israel has an interest in housing in East Jerusalem. The United States does not. This frames the conversation between Netanyahu and Obama. The rest is rhetoric.
I found the historical context intriguing, as well as the three regional balances of power quite illuminating. Makes the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan all the more critical, as well as maintaining a strong relationship with Israel while simultaneously keeping them from doing anything rash. Pretty challenging tasks for the JV team we have in the game right now.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6960|Canberra, AUS
Good article, good post.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7095|Nårvei

More interesting to know would be when and why the arab populace and western populace turned on eachother ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX
This is the second STRATFOR article you've posted, the other was also BS.
Stating a bogus assumption as fact without any justification and then building all the arguments off that seems to be the modus operandi.
If you have a couple of beers, have Bruce Springsteen playing in the background, the football on and don't think too hard it almost makes sense, but if you look at it carefully its total bollocks.

The article makes no mention of US activity in the UN re Israel, and a few other significant acts, an enormous howler however you look at it.

Let’s now consider the assumption that Israel is a critical U.S. asset.
The article then totally fails to consider this assumption. Following the logic through, Iraq was a critical US asset? India is a critical US asset? I don't think so.

There is no actual US interest in having countries on the other side of the world at each others throats.
If Pakistan vapourised India would it make the slightest difference to the US? Not remotely, if Iraq had annihilated Iran? No again. If Syria nerve-gassed Israel? Zilch.

Would it really have mattered to the US if communism had overtaken the whole of south-east asia? Not for a second.

Using totally fatuous logic to base foreign policy on is the action of infants.

Again, if this is the quality of the best US analysis then god help us.
Fuck Israel
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England
The United States seeks to maintain regional balances of power in order to avoid the emergence of larger powers that can threaten U.S. interests.
US will try to maintain a balance of power, but ultimately China, the EU, Russia (again), Brazil, India will all become dominant in their regions and beyond. Especially China/EU.

Also I think the scales have already tipped quite far when it comes to Israel's balance of power in their region, and India

how old is this article, looks like some bits were written from an 80's/90's perspective


But yeah... the article doesn't explain the what kind of alleged anti-americanism there was in the arab/muslim world before the massive support to Israel started and what were the reasons, it'd be interesting to see. I remember rdx-fx talking about fighting the barbary pirates and how that's proof that the usa was fighting crazy jihadists from the beginning, lol
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX
The point here is that the United States was not actively involved in supporting Israel prior to 1967, yet anti-Americanism in the Arab world was rampant.
For example? Another bogus statement not backed with facts.

If the STRATFOR logic is right then the US should be pressing for Iran to have nukes in order to restabilise the region.
They aren't, its bollocks.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-03-23 05:33:22)

Fuck Israel
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6960|Canberra, AUS
If Pakistan vapourised India would it make the slightest difference to the US?
...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001

Spark wrote:

If Pakistan vapourised India would it make the slightest difference to the US?
...
Dilbert doesn't understand global economy lol.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7000|US

Dilbert_X wrote:

The point here is that the United States was not actively involved in supporting Israel prior to 1967, yet anti-Americanism in the Arab world was rampant.
For example? Another bogus statement not backed with facts.

If the STRATFOR logic is right then the US should be pressing for Iran to have nukes in order to restabilise the region.
They aren't, its bollocks.
Political understanding of zero, Dilbert.
What are you going on about?  You think we should be aiding people trying to piss us off, fighting against our forces in the region, claiming other nations need to be wiped off the map, trying to develop nuclear capabilities, and suffering political instability...Are you nuts, or just trying to look it?
Marlo Stanfield
online poker tax cheating
+122|5448
Israeli can drink the blood of every Palestinian man, woman, and child who opposes them.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina
The article was well-written, and I mostly agree with the points made, but I'm always leery of trusting Stratfor given their corporate connections.

In particular, their environmental policy record is pretty sketchy.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

This is the second STRATFOR article you've posted, the other was also BS.
Stating a bogus assumption as fact without any justification and then building all the arguments off that seems to be the modus operandi.
If you have a couple of beers, have Bruce Springsteen playing in the background, the football on and don't think too hard it almost makes sense, but if you look at it carefully its total bollocks.

The article makes no mention of US activity in the UN re Israel, and a few other significant acts, an enormous howler however you look at it.

Let’s now consider the assumption that Israel is a critical U.S. asset.
The article then totally fails to consider this assumption. Following the logic through, Iraq was a critical US asset? India is a critical US asset? I don't think so.

There is no actual US interest in having countries on the other side of the world at each others throats.
If Pakistan vapourised India would it make the slightest difference to the US? Not remotely, if Iraq had annihilated Iran? No again. If Syria nerve-gassed Israel? Zilch.

Would it really have mattered to the US if communism had overtaken the whole of south-east asia? Not for a second.

Using totally fatuous logic to base foreign policy on is the action of infants.

Again, if this is the quality of the best US analysis then god help us.
Post some facts to back up your position or gtfo.

They explained those assumptions quite well with the power balance explanation. Did you read that part, or just disagree with it?

They back up their analysis with fact. You back yours up with...fuckall.

Last edited by FEOS (2010-03-23 19:49:34)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

RAIMIUS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The point here is that the United States was not actively involved in supporting Israel prior to 1967, yet anti-Americanism in the Arab world was rampant.
For example? Another bogus statement not backed with facts.

If the STRATFOR logic is right then the US should be pressing for Iran to have nukes in order to restabilise the region.
They aren't, its bollocks.
Political understanding of zero, Dilbert.
What are you going on about?  You think we should be aiding people trying to piss us off, fighting against our forces in the region, claiming other nations need to be wiped off the map, trying to develop nuclear capabilities, and suffering political instability...
The US already supports Israel - who are doing all the above but fighting US forces directly - and they would do that if it suited them eg if they thought China was a better bet than the US.
Fuck Israel
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

They explained those assumptions quite well with the power balance explanation. Did you read that part, or just disagree with it?
As I pointed out the 'power balance' argument is BS plain and simple.
Did you even read my post?
They back up their analysis with fact.
Where, I see only argument, not a single fact.
Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

They explained those assumptions quite well with the power balance explanation. Did you read that part, or just disagree with it?
As I pointed out the 'power balance' argument is BS plain and simple.
Did you even read my post?
Yes, I did read your post. You did not supply a single fact to back up your position that the power balance argument is BS.

Dilbert_X wrote:

They back up their analysis with fact.
Where, I see only argument, not a single fact.
Did you read the article, or only the parts I excerpted? Either way, it's there. And far more than anything you provided to counter.

I think it just bugs the shit out of you that it provides a rational foundation for the US to have an alliance with Israel, and even more so, provides a rational foundation for the US to not just cut all ties to Israel and let them die the horrible death you seem to crave.

Even more so, it also shows that the US has an interest in taking a stronger position vis a vis Israel so they don't destabilize the region with their actions--but you seem to have totally overlooked that part in your kneejerk "Israel sux and US sux cuz they support Israel" blind reaction.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

?Yes, I did read your post. You did not supply a single fact to back up your position that the power balance argument is BS.
I pointed out that if any of the power balances collapsed in any direction the US or its interests wouldn't be affected one jot.
Even more so, it also shows that the US has an interest in taking a stronger position vis a vis Israel so they don't destabilize the region with their actions.
But the US hasn't done that and never will, again, to balance the current situation Iran should have nukes, its not going to happen because the 'balance' argument is total bollocks - the US doesn't want balance in the ME it wants Israel in a position of power.

Just as an example, try backing up the first assumption of the article.
'The fundamental problem with the theory is that Arab anti-Americanism predates significant U.S. support for Israel.'

US Support began with the foundation of Israel, citing 1967 is BS.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-03-24 05:06:31)

Fuck Israel
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6840
An interesting read but -

On the historical build-up:

- Despotic and tyrannical Arab governments aligning themselves on one side of the political spectrum of a cold war that could have swung either way does not equal proof of on-the-street ingrained mass Arab anti-American sentiment. How representative is Than Shwe of your average Burmese man? I wonder when the first significant extra-governmental anti-American terrorist attacks by Arabs commenced? The largely apathetic Muslim street galvanised against the US far more strongly in more recent times. Of course it isn't solely to do with Israel, it is also to do with the economic/military/political interference in which they have engaged in their neo-imperialist ventures (i.e., in 'the American strategic interest') but the background provided here reeks of pointed bias. C'mon - how hard is it to make the distinction between Arab governments and the clandestine militias with which the west are faced today?

Edit: an (apologies) wikisearch of terrorist incidents throws up no Islamic-oriented anti-US terrorist acts prior to the 1970s.

- The build up seems to treat the US as a stand alone force for good. It wasn't. It was closely allied to the UK and France and every other western nation under the sun: basically to all the nations that had fucked the Arabs over for centuries. It is totally disingenuous to slip past this quite obvious association unnoticed. The US was always going to be guilty by association and didn't exactly help itself through its actions in the region (Mossadeq?).

Main Article:

- Israel as regional hegemon? Please. It has military power and that's it. That resource-barren nation's influence in any other regard doesn't extend even a centimetre beyond what they regard as their own border. While Saudi Arabia might be happy to let them continue as they are as a bulwark again Iranian hegemony do you think they'll sell so much as an apple let alone a barrel of oil to them? Ludicrous.

My bottomline:

- The problem is that it's too late for the US to address the issue, they are tainted. The US, as the article points out, have been and are only interested in their own neo-imperialist agenda in the region. I contend however that the Israeli-Palestinian balance of power is irrelevant in the context of their strategic interest in the region. Israel as an ally is of no military advantage to them in any face-off they might engage in with any Arab or Persian country (other than annihilation of said country). Israel has little/no diplomatic, economic or political influence anywhere in the region - noone wants to touch them with a barge pole, not even the nations with which they have signed peace agreements.

If the US were to cease economically/militarily/politically propping up Israel to the extent that they do however (which they will always continue to do for for domestic political reasons as much as anything else) the benefit to the US in terms of their strategic interests would be minimal/nil. The US will always be persona non-grata in that part of the world for very good reasons. Their continued unflinching support for Israel just has the unfortunate effect of making them look like totally unprincipled hypocritical cunts to most of the non-American street (i.e., makes America look like the hegemonic tyrant the Islamists seek to portray them as) and serving as the mana-from-heaven perfect recruiting tool for slack-jawed directionless yokels living in Afghan caves, empoverished British ghettos, etc.

PS The first nation to recognise the state of Israel was .....drum roll...... the United States of America *surprise*. They'd probably recognised it before the first wave of refugees had even been flushed out of Ottoman Palestine.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2010-03-24 13:01:21)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

?Yes, I did read your post. You did not supply a single fact to back up your position that the power balance argument is BS.
I pointed out that if any of the power balances collapsed in any direction the US or its interests wouldn't be affected one jot.
And you are one to judge US interests how?

Dilbert_X wrote:

Even more so, it also shows that the US has an interest in taking a stronger position vis a vis Israel so they don't destabilize the region with their actions.
But the US hasn't done that and never will, again, to balance the current situation Iran should have nukes, its not going to happen because the 'balance' argument is total bollocks - the US doesn't want balance in the ME it wants Israel in a position of power.
Clearly you don't understand the concept of balance. One small country surrounded by belligerents. Yeah, balance would be it being weak as opposed to strong to counter those belligerents, right? Makes perfect sense.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Just as an example, try backing up the first assumption of the article.
'The fundamental problem with the theory is that Arab anti-Americanism predates significant U.S. support for Israel.'

US Support began with the foundation of Israel, citing 1967 is BS.
Arab countries were being backed by the USSR prior to that point (as stated quite clearly in the article, had you bothered to read it). They aligned themselves with the USSR, which started the anti-American sentiment in the region. The only counter to that at the time was a strong Israel (already strengthened by the UK and France previously...again pointed out clearly in the article). Is that clear enough? No BS about it, unless you're going to call historical fact BS because it doesn't synch with your world view.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX
US Interests - Oil supply, markets to sell into, thats about it.

Balance would be Israel balanced with neighbouring countries, eg having similar offensive capabilities. Israel having nuclear weapons and no-one else nearby having them doesn't make for balance.
Israel having nuclear weapons and having its poodle the US jump up and down at the UNSC whenever its neighbours try to acquire basic conventional weapons does not make for balance.

Its the USSR's fault the arab world is anti-US
Sure its not a simple response to US belligerence in the region? Supporting the foundation of Israel? The despotic Saudis? Meddling with Iran, Iraq, Lebanon etc?

Can't see this guy having any pro-Israel anti-USSR agenda at all.
George Friedman is Chief Executive of STRATFOR, a private global intelligence firm he founded in 1996. Prior to joining the private sector, Friedman spent almost twenty years in academia, teaching political science at Dickinson College. During this time he also regularly briefed senior commanders in the armed services as well as the Office of Net Assessments, SHAPE Technical Center, the U.S. Army War College, National Defense University and the RAND Corporation on security and national defense matters. Friedman’s childhood was shaped directly by international conflict: he was born in Hungary to Holocaust survivors, his family fled Hungary when he was a child to escape the Communist regime, settling first in a camp for displaced persons in Austria and then immigrating to the United States.
Really, STRATFOR is the intel equivalent of Fox News, and similarly what they churn out is thinly disguised propaganda bought by people who want to give their agenda some semblance of reason.

The whole 'balance' argument is BS anyway, all it does is drive people into one camp or another which is a worse situation than neutrality.
Its playground 'my gang or his gang' childishness which achieves nothing whatever.
Fuck Israel
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001

Dilbert_X wrote:

US Interests - Oil supply, markets to sell into, thats about it.

Balance would be Israel balanced with neighbouring countries, eg having similar offensive capabilities. Israel having nuclear weapons and no-one else nearby having them doesn't make for balance.
Israel having nuclear weapons and having its poodle the US jump up and down at the UNSC whenever its neighbours try to acquire basic conventional weapons does not make for balance.

Its the USSR's fault the arab world is anti-US
Sure its not a simple response to US belligerence in the region? Supporting the foundation of Israel? The despotic Saudis? Meddling with Iran, Iraq, Lebanon etc?

Can't see this guy having any pro-Israel anti-USSR agenda at all.
George Friedman is Chief Executive of STRATFOR, a private global intelligence firm he founded in 1996. Prior to joining the private sector, Friedman spent almost twenty years in academia, teaching political science at Dickinson College. During this time he also regularly briefed senior commanders in the armed services as well as the Office of Net Assessments, SHAPE Technical Center, the U.S. Army War College, National Defense University and the RAND Corporation on security and national defense matters. Friedman’s childhood was shaped directly by international conflict: he was born in Hungary to Holocaust survivors, his family fled Hungary when he was a child to escape the Communist regime, settling first in a camp for displaced persons in Austria and then immigrating to the United States.
Really, STRATFOR is the intel equivalent of Fox News, and similarly what they churn out is thinly disguised propaganda bought by people who want to give their agenda some semblance of reason.

The whole 'balance' argument is BS anyway, all it does is drive people into one camp or another which is a worse situation than neutrality.
Its playground 'my gang or his gang' childishness which achieves nothing whatever.
RAND Corp is pretty big yo...

US just doesn't want countries to stir shit up, what do you think keeps Israel on a leash? If I were Israel I'd already be rolling over Palestine and take over their lands. No point waiting for Hamas to start firing rockets.
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FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

US Interests - Oil supply, markets to sell into, thats about it.

Balance would be Israel balanced with neighbouring countries, eg having similar offensive capabilities. Israel having nuclear weapons and no-one else nearby having them doesn't make for balance.
Israel having nuclear weapons and having its poodle the US jump up and down at the UNSC whenever its neighbours try to acquire basic conventional weapons does not make for balance.

Its the USSR's fault the arab world is anti-US
Sure its not a simple response to US belligerence in the region? Supporting the foundation of Israel? The despotic Saudis? Meddling with Iran, Iraq, Lebanon etc?

Can't see this guy having any pro-Israel anti-USSR agenda at all.
George Friedman is Chief Executive of STRATFOR, a private global intelligence firm he founded in 1996. Prior to joining the private sector, Friedman spent almost twenty years in academia, teaching political science at Dickinson College. During this time he also regularly briefed senior commanders in the armed services as well as the Office of Net Assessments, SHAPE Technical Center, the U.S. Army War College, National Defense University and the RAND Corporation on security and national defense matters. Friedman’s childhood was shaped directly by international conflict: he was born in Hungary to Holocaust survivors, his family fled Hungary when he was a child to escape the Communist regime, settling first in a camp for displaced persons in Austria and then immigrating to the United States.
Really, STRATFOR is the intel equivalent of Fox News, and similarly what they churn out is thinly disguised propaganda bought by people who want to give their agenda some semblance of reason.

The whole 'balance' argument is BS anyway, all it does is drive people into one camp or another which is a worse situation than neutrality.
Its playground 'my gang or his gang' childishness which achieves nothing whatever.
You still haven't provided an ounce of evidence against the balance argument WRT foreign policy, for either the US or UK (as the US policy is founded on the UK policy). All you've done is say "it's drivel". Not exactly a strong counterargument.

Your attempt to smear Friedman isn't exactly stellar, either. Briefing players in the defense-industrial complex doesn't mean you are a part of it--he was in academia. Plenty of Jews dislike Israel and their policies. STRATFOR isn't exactly enamored with Israeli policies, if you bother to read their analyses, rather than just bash them because you don't like what they come up with.

Face it, Dilbert: Historical fact lines up pretty well with their assessment rather than your opinion.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6814|Global Command

Dilbert_X wrote:

gassed Israel? Zilch.

Would it really have mattered to the US if communism had overtaken the whole of south-east asia? Not for a second.

hilter wrote:

Vee really only want Eastern polland, trust us.
geez dude, I would consider being a liberal but you guys always fail to see two feet past your face.
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6866|the dank(super) side of Oregon
Yeah, once they'd taken Indochina, Australia was sure to fall under the sickle.  and then antarctica.  It's a good thing we won in Vietnam.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6814|Global Command
We did.
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6866|the dank(super) side of Oregon

ATG wrote:

We did.
I know we did, otherwise New Zealand would be a communist state.

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