Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7094|Nårvei

Cybargs wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:


Medicaid already exists.

Edit: Mek its not a NHS bill, it's a bill to force people to buy insurance, but is trying to get insurance companies to remove some of their stuff about pre-existing conditions. Either way it is a BIG win for insurance companies.
If it's such a big win for the insurence companies why did they deny most of these people insurence in the first place?
No this is a big win because it FORCES people to buy insurance no matter what. Now with the pre-existing condition thing, I could see them driving up prices. This bill makes matters worst, not better.

Remember insurance is gambling, forcing people to buy insurance and letting insurance companies allow pre-existing condition, would make their profits skyrocket.
I've never been a fan of that particular way of organizing health care through a insurence company, just that you leave someone out of a system is what I find wrong ... and that have now been fixed ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Varegg wrote:


If it's such a big win for the insurence companies why did they deny most of these people insurence in the first place?
No this is a big win because it FORCES people to buy insurance no matter what. Now with the pre-existing condition thing, I could see them driving up prices. This bill makes matters worst, not better.

Remember insurance is gambling, forcing people to buy insurance and letting insurance companies allow pre-existing condition, would make their profits skyrocket.
I've never been a fan of that particular way of organizing health care through a insurence company, just that you leave someone out of a system is what I find wrong ... and that have now been fixed ...
Enjoy higher health care costs.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6814|Global Command
It will cost four more times than what they say.

Obama doesn't care about being re-elected. This is about making American more unstable and likely to fail so that they can usher in that NWO.

This is about breaking it so that it can be remade in a manner more fair for everybody ( except the mad power elite who will never be subject to the laws they make for us ).
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Spark wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I love how this is being touted as "Universal Health Care" by MSNBC... All they did was force people to buy health insurance. I fail to see how progressives can really claim a victory here. They didn't get the NHS they've always wanted.
I don't see how this is a big victory either... They got other D's to agree?
Considering every Democratic president before Obama has tried and failed for, what, 60 years, it is a pretty major achievement.
Right, but it's NOT a UHC. They may say they've expanded coverage to 30M people but 27M of those people didn't want health insurance in the first place. They're people like me who are healthy and haven't started their career yet and thus don't want the added expense or can't afford it. Heck, they say that most of the uncovered people right now in this country already qualify for Medicaid but are just too proud to accept it. I'm one of those.

The problem is they are forcing people to buy a commodity from a private company. We as a people no longer have a say if we want coverage or not. THAT is where the cries of socialism are relevant because they've taken away our freedom of choice because they feel we are too stupid or too irresponsible to know what's best for ourselves. The bill they've passed is a travesty and goes against every single one of my beliefs as a libertarian.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5522|Cleveland, Ohio
man i wonder how much stupid shit was promised to get the yes votes.  this should go well lol.
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7094|Nårvei

Cybargs wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:


No this is a big win because it FORCES people to buy insurance no matter what. Now with the pre-existing condition thing, I could see them driving up prices. This bill makes matters worst, not better.

Remember insurance is gambling, forcing people to buy insurance and letting insurance companies allow pre-existing condition, would make their profits skyrocket.
I've never been a fan of that particular way of organizing health care through a insurence company, just that you leave someone out of a system is what I find wrong ... and that have now been fixed ...
Enjoy higher health care costs.
I already am enjoying what should have been enjoyed by all citizen on earth ... a social safety net that works
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Spark wrote:

aren't there supposed to be subsidies to help people get insurance
Medicaid already exists.

Edit: Mek its not a NHS bill, it's a bill to force people to buy insurance, but is trying to get insurance companies to remove some of their stuff about pre-existing conditions. Either way it is a BIG win for insurance companies.
If it's such a big win for the insurence companies why did they deny most of these people insurence in the first place?
They didn't deny most of these people insurance. Every state has a pool that people can buy into if they can't get insurance through one of the health insurance providers because of pre-existing conditions but it's expensive because it's full of high risk people. Hell, on another message board I frequent there is a guy that makes $100k a year up in Minnesota selling junk on ebay and he's gloating and jumping up and down because he's going to be able to get out of that high risk pool and purchase 'normal people insurance'. The guy makes good money and he ate himself into developing Type II Diabetes but he's ecstatic that everyone else will be subsidizing his health insurance now by making them pay higher premiums to cover his fat ass.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5522|Cleveland, Ohio

Varegg wrote:

I already am enjoying what should have been enjoyed by all citizen on earth ... a social safety net that works
scuze me but i liked my option to pay and choose for what i wanted.
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5522|Cleveland, Ohio
nor do i think anyone should pay for MY healthcare.  isnt that kind of selfish anyway?  we already have free healthcare for poor people.  why would i want to make everyone pay because i eat shitty food and drink too much beer?  god forbid if i was an "extreme" sports person. i dont see how my reckless behavior should be the burden of anyone else.
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7094|Nårvei

JohnG@lt wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:


Medicaid already exists.

Edit: Mek its not a NHS bill, it's a bill to force people to buy insurance, but is trying to get insurance companies to remove some of their stuff about pre-existing conditions. Either way it is a BIG win for insurance companies.
If it's such a big win for the insurence companies why did they deny most of these people insurence in the first place?
They didn't deny most of these people insurance. Every state has a pool that people can buy into if they can't get insurance through one of the health insurance providers because of pre-existing conditions but it's expensive because it's full of high risk people. Hell, on another message board I frequent there is a guy that makes $100k a year up in Minnesota selling junk on ebay and he's gloating and jumping up and down because he's going to be able to get out of that high risk pool and purchase 'normal people insurance'. The guy makes good money and he ate himself into developing Type II Diabetes but he's ecstatic that everyone else will be subsidizing his health insurance now by making them pay higher premiums to cover his fat ass.
Normal responce to blame one idiot and make it look like the entire system is flawd ... if I developed type II diabetes I would be anything but ecstatic tbh ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

11 Bravo wrote:

nor do i think anyone should pay for MY healthcare.  isnt that kind of selfish anyway?  we already have free healthcare for poor people.  why would i want to make everyone pay because i eat shitty food and drink too much beer?  god forbid if i was an "extreme" sports person. i dont see how my reckless behavior should be the burden of anyone else.
Same guy was bragging recently about how he just got back from a trip to Mexico where he blew $2500 on coke and prostitutes. I'm so glad I'm subsidizing this guys lifestyle now.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5522|Cleveland, Ohio

JohnG@lt wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

nor do i think anyone should pay for MY healthcare.  isnt that kind of selfish anyway?  we already have free healthcare for poor people.  why would i want to make everyone pay because i eat shitty food and drink too much beer?  god forbid if i was an "extreme" sports person. i dont see how my reckless behavior should be the burden of anyone else.
Same guy was bragging recently about how he just got back from a trip to Mexico where he blew $2500 on coke and prostitutes. I'm so glad I'm subsidizing this guys lifestyle now.
no worries.  we will have to ration care now anyway.  i wonder how many doctors will quit like they said they would.
Benzin
Member
+576|6283
Post the thread, John.
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7094|Nårvei

11 Bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

nor do i think anyone should pay for MY healthcare.  isnt that kind of selfish anyway?  we already have free healthcare for poor people.  why would i want to make everyone pay because i eat shitty food and drink too much beer?  god forbid if i was an "extreme" sports person. i dont see how my reckless behavior should be the burden of anyone else.
Same guy was bragging recently about how he just got back from a trip to Mexico where he blew $2500 on coke and prostitutes. I'm so glad I'm subsidizing this guys lifestyle now.
no worries.  we will have to ration care now anyway.  i wonder how many doctors will quit like they said they would.
And why would they quit?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

CapnNismo wrote:

Post the thread, John.
There are about a million of them...

http://www.softballfans.com/forums/show … hlight=3xc

Here's a search for the threads he's started...

http://www.softballfans.com/forums/sear … d=15168591
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Varegg wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Same guy was bragging recently about how he just got back from a trip to Mexico where he blew $2500 on coke and prostitutes. I'm so glad I'm subsidizing this guys lifestyle now.
no worries.  we will have to ration care now anyway.  i wonder how many doctors will quit like they said they would.
And why would they quit?
Because they've capped doctors pay in the bill. Price controls are next.

Taking a free industry like doctors have been and imposing caps on compensation and who/when they can treat people is nothing more than servitude. None of them signed up to be 'public servants'.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5522|Cleveland, Ohio

Varegg wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Same guy was bragging recently about how he just got back from a trip to Mexico where he blew $2500 on coke and prostitutes. I'm so glad I'm subsidizing this guys lifestyle now.
no worries.  we will have to ration care now anyway.  i wonder how many doctors will quit like they said they would.
And why would they quit?
im not a doctor, dont ask me.  just going by what was said.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6782

eleven bravo wrote:

I guess this means rush limbaugh is leavng the country
who said nothing good would come of this?
Benzin
Member
+576|6283
There are pay caps on a doctor's salary? Where is that in the bill?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

CapnNismo wrote:

There are pay caps on a doctor's salary? Where is that in the bill?
They had to lower doctor payouts from Medicaid/Medicare by about 1/3 in order to make the bill 'deficit neutral'.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7094|Nårvei

JohnG@lt wrote:

CapnNismo wrote:

There are pay caps on a doctor's salary? Where is that in the bill?
They had to lower doctor payouts from Medicaid/Medicare by about 1/3 in order to make the bill 'deficit neutral'.
Could also mean it was way to high before ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
13rin
Member
+977|6764
Florida & several other states sue!!!! HELL YEA!
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5544|foggy bottom

OxenBreeder wrote:

Warhammer wrote:

Stock market is going to plunge.
YUP!
Stocks rise as health-care sector paces gains
11:44a ET March 22, 2010 (MarketWatch)
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- U.S. stocks turned higher on Monday, with the health-care sector leading the gains on the belief that the passage of the reform bill would translate into more insured customers for hospitals and pharmaceutical companies.

The market's rise reflects "the 2014 date it kicks in," said Robert Pavlik, chief market strategist at Banyan Partners, of the legislation passed by the U.S. House of Representatives Sunday night.

"The additional folks that will be added to the insured ranks is helping pharmaceutical companies, since [more people] will now have a way to pay for drugs," Pavlik said.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 38.40 points to 10,780.38, with 22 of its 30 components advancing. The S&P 500 Index rose 3.81 points to 1,163.71. The Nasdaq Composite Index climbed 13.7 points to 2,388.11.

Tenet Healthcare Corp. was among those rallying, its shares up 5.5%, in the wake of passage of a health-care overhaul after a year of debate. Health Management Associates was up 7% at $8.70 after earlier rising to a 52-week high of $8.9.

President Barack Obama is expected to sign the bill into law on Tuesday. Read full story about historic health-care vote.

Energy shares led sector declines, with a strengthening dollar hitting commodities including crude-oil futures, which fell below $80 a barrel. Read Futures Movers.

The stock gains erased an opening decline that came with worries about increasing government debt, climbing interest rates and the potential impact on the global recovery.

"Rates are rising overseas, giving upward pressure on the dollar. That's why you saw the market sell-off initially," said Pavlik.

And, with Wall Street expected to slowly grind higher in the long run, investors are using dips as buying opportunities, Pavlik said.

"Any short-term weakness is giving investors an opportunity to step up and do a little bargain-hunting," he said.

The Reserve Bank of India hiked its benchmark rates after the country's markets closed on Friday to curb rising inflation, echoing similar moves this month in Australia and Malaysia.

And mixed signals from European leaders about aid to debt-riddled Greece also weighed on the market.

"The European Union may be a paper tiger if it doesn't even support its own members," said Pavlik of the potential Greece might seek aid from the International Monetary Fund.
Tu Stultus Es
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5986|College Park, MD
The Economist had a short nice article on the bill. Basically, even though the current bill is quite sad, it's a start and that's what is needed. It'll have to be modified, and maybe one day we'll have a nationalized health plan as well, but we needed to get the ball finally rolling. If it hadn't passed, who knows how many more decades we'd be arguing about it.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6885|132 and Bush

burnzz wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

I guess this means rush limbaugh is leavng the country
who said nothing good would come of this?
What he said was that he would go to Costa Rica for healthcare.. nobody told him Costa Rica had socialized HC to.
Xbone Stormsurgezz

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