You should see the shit in China. Go there and say China will never be a world leader, and see if you get arrested.ruisleipa wrote:
a) Treu.Turquoise wrote:
I think the answer to the second part is that non-Americans get tired of the flag-waving types that often go on about how great America is.
Granted, there are several nations that are far more nationalistic than we are.
b) oh yeah? Like where?
http://www.k9knittersusa.com/images/GBt … L%20rt.jpg
Actually no. I don't live in Switzerland. I can't really comment about laws in Switzerland... but I have to ask, is there's any punishments against individuals demonstrating their opinions about holocaust (or its denial)? If not, then "official" statement has very little impact on personal lives and freedom of speech. Surely this is limiting freedom of press (or is it?) but does this affect in people of Switzerland if they already acknowledge holocaust?Turquoise wrote:
Fair points... If my assumptions are correct and you live in Switzerland, then my only counters are the following...BLdw wrote:
Do you mean freedom of the press, or freedom of the speech every citizen is (should be) entitled to? I am quite free, as an individual, to comment anything of everything and almost everywhere I want to (in my country) without violating any laws. "Trueish" freedom of press is one of the positive things to live in a small and neutral country. Press can comment anything of everything and almost everywhere they want to. Does not necessarily mean this happens because the influence of our Western point of view and rest Western media.Turquoise wrote:
Well, for perspective, what country would you say is freer than America when it comes to personal freedoms like speech?
I've read that CIA has asked several times press not to publish something that might be "harmful to nation's best interests". Wasn't Washington Post asked to delay, by CIA, publishing information about conditions of Guantanamo Bay detainees, "too early"? (I faintly remember that this was in Washington Post. I'm looking searching the news now...)
Besides, how can press be free if it has to think what customers want to read/hear? Can your press really post something radical without the fear of losing its customers? It's quite natural that you know (ought to know at least) your own press better than me, but does reading news from one source mean you have free press?
Correct me, if I am wrong.
(I like deleting posts and then posting same shit in the same place.)
Holocaust denial is, for all practical purposes, illegal in your country, so that's a mark against freedom of speech (albeit a small one). Again, it's not technically illegal, but the laws effectively allow for punishment of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_again … witzerland
The other thing of note is that Switzerland recently banned new construction of minarets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minaret_co … witzerland
Again, this is a small encroachment on the freedom of religion, but it is still worth noting.
As you said, national pride is not exclusively American. It's just that there are 300m+ of us so it comes off stronger than various other European countries.Turquoise wrote:
I think the answer to the second part is that non-Americans get tired of the flag-waving types that often go on about how great America is.Kmarion wrote:
A) I don't know why (some) Americans feel the need to explain their "greatness". Protip: If you really are great you won't need to.
B) I don't know why non-Americans feel the need to try and bring down American pride. Are they looking for their own recognition? They are like the poor neglected step child. Yes you did a good job to.
Really what does it all matter?
Granted, there are several nations that are far more nationalistic than we are.
This is true, they are ridiculously nationalistic. Especially when you try to talk to them about cricketThat being said, Americans are definitely less nationalistic on average than say... Indians
When I was in Germany you risked getting your throat cut if you insulted the local football team. (No not literally)Turquoise wrote:
Pretty much... although I'm just sorry that our system has become so damn corrupt. It wasn't a single president that did it -- it was just a gradual take-over by lobbyists.
That being said, Americans are definitely less nationalistic on average than say... Indians. As Cybargs said, the Chinese were another good example.
My best friend is 2nd generation South Korean, and he tells me all kinds of crazy things about how they are so nationalistic over there too.
And those same people then get on the internet to bash Americans for being arrogant... lolKmarion wrote:
When I was in Germany you risked getting your throat cut if you insulted the local football team. (No not literally)Turquoise wrote:
Pretty much... although I'm just sorry that our system has become so damn corrupt. It wasn't a single president that did it -- it was just a gradual take-over by lobbyists.
That being said, Americans are definitely less nationalistic on average than say... Indians. As Cybargs said, the Chinese were another good example.
My best friend is 2nd generation South Korean, and he tells me all kinds of crazy things about how they are so nationalistic over there too.
It wasn't on a national level, but the idea was the same.. I live here and therefor I am superior.
Last edited by loubot (2010-03-27 05:42:27)
Unless being you involves anything from a very long list of exceptions. Same as anywhere else.burnzz wrote:
Why is the US such a great nation? i'm free to be me.
Last edited by mikkel (2010-03-27 09:26:23)
Asia, South America, Europe: You're welcome, USA.loubot wrote:
When people say they live in a great nation - it is a subjective statement based on patriotic or nationlist sense.
You can have bullet points on why it is a great nation but there is no absolute proof.
If you want a bullet point, then here is one:
-- Emergency World Relief - place like Haiti where natural disaster strikes.. we provide aid....you are welcome
hardcore football fans are not normal peopleKmarion wrote:
When I was in Germany you risked getting your throat cut if you insulted the local football team. (No not literally)Turquoise wrote:
Pretty much... although I'm just sorry that our system has become so damn corrupt. It wasn't a single president that did it -- it was just a gradual take-over by lobbyists.
That being said, Americans are definitely less nationalistic on average than say... Indians. As Cybargs said, the Chinese were another good example.
My best friend is 2nd generation South Korean, and he tells me all kinds of crazy things about how they are so nationalistic over there too.
It wasn't on a national level, but the idea was the same.. I live here and therefor I am superior.
Europe?Cybargs wrote:
Asia, South America, Europe: You're welcome, USA.loubot wrote:
When people say they live in a great nation - it is a subjective statement based on patriotic or nationlist sense.
You can have bullet points on why it is a great nation but there is no absolute proof.
If you want a bullet point, then here is one:
-- Emergency World Relief - place like Haiti where natural disaster strikes.. we provide aid....you are welcome
We will have equal rights for all. Except blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Jews, gays, women, Muslims. Uhmm...Everybody who's not a white man. And I mean white-white, so no Italians, no Polish, just people from Ireland, England, and Scotland. But only certain parts of Scotland and Ireland. Just full blooded whites. No, you know what? Not even whites. Nobody gets any rights. Ahhh...America!mikkel wrote:
Unless being you involves anything from a very long list of exceptions. Same as anywhere else.burnzz wrote:
Why is the US such a great nation? i'm free to be me.
Marshall plan, defending Europe from ze Ruskies (US spent more than entire Europe COMBINED in defense of Europe).Spark wrote:
Europe?Cybargs wrote:
Asia, South America, Europe: You're welcome, USA.loubot wrote:
When people say they live in a great nation - it is a subjective statement based on patriotic or nationlist sense.
You can have bullet points on why it is a great nation but there is no absolute proof.
If you want a bullet point, then here is one:
-- Emergency World Relief - place like Haiti where natural disaster strikes.. we provide aid....you are welcome
Lives>MoneyCybargs wrote:
Marshall plan, defending Europe from ze Ruskies (US spent more than entire Europe COMBINED in defense of Europe).Spark wrote:
Europe?Cybargs wrote:
Asia, South America, Europe: You're welcome, USA.
You save people by not letting them starve to death. Money does = lives saved if spent correctly like the Marshall Plan. Oh, and Berlin Air Lift. US putting more troops and money into defending Europe does in a sense, saves Euros from being crushed by Russia.Peter wrote:
Lives>MoneyCybargs wrote:
Marshall plan, defending Europe from ze Ruskies (US spent more than entire Europe COMBINED in defense of Europe).Spark wrote:
Europe?
I would point out that that was more out of "oh shit communism" more than humanitarian concern for Germans.Cybargs wrote:
Marshall plan, defending Europe from ze Ruskies (US spent more than entire Europe COMBINED in defense of Europe).Spark wrote:
Europe?Cybargs wrote:
Asia, South America, Europe: You're welcome, USA.
Well the reconstruction was for all of Europe, coz you know, they don't want another treaty of Versailles.Spark wrote:
I would point out that that was more out of "oh shit communism" more than humanitarian concern for Germans.Cybargs wrote:
Marshall plan, defending Europe from ze Ruskies (US spent more than entire Europe COMBINED in defense of Europe).Spark wrote:
Europe?
well no considering that that particular piece of garbage had a big part to play in the sparking of the most destructive and violent war in human history.Cybargs wrote:
Well the reconstruction was for all of Europe, coz you know, they don't want another treaty of Versailles.Spark wrote:
I would point out that that was more out of "oh shit communism" more than humanitarian concern for Germans.Cybargs wrote:
Marshall plan, defending Europe from ze Ruskies (US spent more than entire Europe COMBINED in defense of Europe).
Last edited by Spark (2010-03-28 00:40:19)
