You're kinda guilty if you lobbed grenades at US troops.LostFate wrote:
Hence the expression " Innocent till proven guilty" if you can't fucking prove it stop throwing people in jail.-Sh1fty- wrote:
Shit happens and you can't always prove it's wrong.BLdw wrote:
It doesn't matter if they are innocent?
Imagine all the people possibly convicted of murder who are either dead (Death penalty) or have spent a life in prison for nothing?
This is planet Earth, shit happens.
Well if you did DO it you;re fucking guilty YES? I'm talking about people who don't even get a trial don't even say it doesn't happen because you know it fucking does.Cybargs wrote:
You're kinda guilty if you lobbed grenades at US troops.LostFate wrote:
Hence the expression " Innocent till proven guilty" if you can't fucking prove it stop throwing people in jail.-Sh1fty- wrote:
Shit happens and you can't always prove it's wrong.
Imagine all the people possibly convicted of murder who are either dead (Death penalty) or have spent a life in prison for nothing?
This is planet Earth, shit happens.
Last edited by LostFate (2010-03-23 13:45:08)
Most of them do get a fair trial and get transferred out.LostFate wrote:
Well if you did DO it you;re fucking guilty YES? I'm talking about people who don't even get a trial don't even say it doesn't happen because you know it fucking does.Cybargs wrote:
You're kinda guilty if you lobbed grenades at US troops.LostFate wrote:
Hence the expression " Innocent till proven guilty" if you can't fucking prove it stop throwing people in jail.
Plus what are they supposed to do bend over and let you fuck them, when some fuckers come an invade my country ill throw grenades at them to.
Just another point of view.Cybargs wrote:
The news is just as manipulative. How the writers set their tone makes a huge difference in the article. The BBC does a pretty good job trying to keep a voice out and just present what happened.
Yep. Shit happens. But maybe torturing detainees isn't the best idea to find out whether someone is guilty or not. Torturing is a very bad way to get information anyway.Sh1fty wrote:
Shit happens and you can't always prove it's wrong.
Imagine all the people possibly convicted of murder who are either dead (Death penalty) or have spent a life in prison for nothing?
This is planet Earth, shit happens.
Good choice of words. Most.Cybargs wrote:
Most of them do get a fair trial and get transferred out.
Last edited by BLdw (2010-03-23 14:20:30)
How many times do I need to tell you? It is simple manipulation NO MATTER WHAT. Not a point of view but a fact. News always leave out certain information or have specific wording for their articles. Look at the difference between fox news and CNN. Even the BBC is guilty of it but it is to WHAT degree.BLdw wrote:
Just another point of view.Cybargs wrote:
The news is just as manipulative. How the writers set their tone makes a huge difference in the article. The BBC does a pretty good job trying to keep a voice out and just present what happened.
Thanks, I'll go learn.Cybargs wrote:
How many times do I need to tell you? It is simple manipulation NO MATTER WHAT. Not a point of view but a fact. News always leave out certain information or have specific wording for their articles. Look at the difference between fox news and CNN. Even the BBC is guilty of it but it is to WHAT degree.BLdw wrote:
Just another point of view.Cybargs wrote:
The news is just as manipulative. How the writers set their tone makes a huge difference in the article. The BBC does a pretty good job trying to keep a voice out and just present what happened.
Go learn rhetoric.
You make perfect sense /sarcasmLostFate wrote:
Well if you did DO it you;re fucking guilty YES? I'm talking about people who don't even get a trial don't even say it doesn't happen because you know it fucking does.Cybargs wrote:
You're kinda guilty if you lobbed grenades at US troops.LostFate wrote:
Hence the expression " Innocent till proven guilty" if you can't fucking prove it stop throwing people in jail.
Plus what are they supposed to do bend over and let you fuck them, when some fuckers come an invade my country ill throw grenades at them to.
I think you'll find the initial invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan had massive popular support within the respective countries. They were absolutely thrilled at seeing us kick out the respective despots... and then less than thrilled when we decided to stick around.LostFate wrote:
Well if you did DO it you;re fucking guilty YES? I'm talking about people who don't even get a trial don't even say it doesn't happen because you know it fucking does.Cybargs wrote:
You're kinda guilty if you lobbed grenades at US troops.LostFate wrote:
Hence the expression " Innocent till proven guilty" if you can't fucking prove it stop throwing people in jail.
Plus what are they supposed to do bend over and let you fuck them, when some fuckers come an invade my country ill throw grenades at them to.
US dicked around too long in Iraq. They didn't plan reconstruction until much later. They lost the support of the Iraqi populace.Spark wrote:
I think you'll find the initial invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan had massive popular support within the respective countries. They were absolutely thrilled at seeing us kick out the respective despots... and then less than thrilled when we decided to stick around.LostFate wrote:
Well if you did DO it you;re fucking guilty YES? I'm talking about people who don't even get a trial don't even say it doesn't happen because you know it fucking does.Cybargs wrote:
You're kinda guilty if you lobbed grenades at US troops.
Plus what are they supposed to do bend over and let you fuck them, when some fuckers come an invade my country ill throw grenades at them to.
(But I have a feeling these words are completely wasted)
MOAB are you serious? You had a pain in the neck, it was a bit annoying. but I guess you were sleeping in your own home, without insanely bright lights that kept you awake, without dogs and armed guards, without a bag over your head when you're outside, without the right to correspond to your family, knowing you're innocent of things you haven't even been formally charged with, without not knowing why you were there or even where you were? And lots more besides.M.O.A.B wrote:
I'd put it as more of an annoyance.BLdw wrote:
Slightly different thing. I know what I've experienced in army too, but that's not even close to the same thing.M.O.A.B wrote:
Look up Hell Week of Navy SEAL BUD/S training.
You know what happens when you fall in sleep and minute later you're forced to wake up? Do you know what in long run if this keeps happening?
Is this not torture to you?
I recently couldn't sleep because I had a bad neck, which kept me awake for several nights running. Pain in the arse yes, but not torture.
That and a lack of troops on the ground, tbh.Cybargs wrote:
US dicked around too long in Iraq. They didn't plan reconstruction until much later. They lost the support of the Iraqi populace.Spark wrote:
I think you'll find the initial invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan had massive popular support within the respective countries. They were absolutely thrilled at seeing us kick out the respective despots... and then less than thrilled when we decided to stick around.LostFate wrote:
Well if you did DO it you;re fucking guilty YES? I'm talking about people who don't even get a trial don't even say it doesn't happen because you know it fucking does.
Plus what are they supposed to do bend over and let you fuck them, when some fuckers come an invade my country ill throw grenades at them to.
(But I have a feeling these words are completely wasted)
Every single one.Spark wrote:
(But I have a feeling these words are completely wasted)
Last edited by LostFate (2010-03-24 06:07:12)
Its been said before and I'll repeat it. Those people are not there for just any old reason.ruisleipa wrote:
MOAB are you serious? You had a pain in the neck, it was a bit annoying. but I guess you were sleeping in your own home, without insanely bright lights that kept you awake, without dogs and armed guards, without a bag over your head when you're outside, without the right to correspond to your family, knowing you're innocent of things you haven't even been formally charged with, without not knowing why you were there or even where you were? And lots more besides.M.O.A.B wrote:
I'd put it as more of an annoyance.BLdw wrote:
Slightly different thing. I know what I've experienced in army too, but that's not even close to the same thing.
You know what happens when you fall in sleep and minute later you're forced to wake up? Do you know what in long run if this keeps happening?
Is this not torture to you?
I recently couldn't sleep because I had a bad neck, which kept me awake for several nights running. Pain in the arse yes, but not torture.
No, a lot of them were there because they'd pissed off the head man in their village , or a neighbouring warlord. Or because they were mistakenly identified. Or because some bloke wanted to shag their wife and told the US they wre a 'terrorist' and the US couldn't be arsed checking. True, a few might even be there because they actually carried out some kind of attacks on US troops - who themselves were there illegally, and then imprisoned people illegally, and tortured them, and so on. Again, I can't understand why anyone would want to try defending Gitmo.M.O.A.B wrote:
Its been said before and I'll repeat it. Those people are not there for just any old reason.
So why isn't every Arab being picked up? There's plenty who've said bad things about the U.S, but they haven't ended up in Camp Delta.ruisleipa wrote:
No, a lot of them were there because they'd pissed off the head man in their village , or a neighbouring warlord. Or because they were mistakenly identified. Or because some bloke wanted to shag their wife and told the US they wre a 'terrorist' and the US couldn't be arsed checking. True, a few might even be there because they actually carried out some kind of attacks on US troops - who themselves were there illegally, and then imprisoned people illegally, and tortured them, and so on. Again, I can't understand why anyone would want to try defending Gitmo.M.O.A.B wrote:
Its been said before and I'll repeat it. Those people are not there for just any old reason.
yes because they are completely bereft of something called "logic"LostFate wrote:
Every single one.Spark wrote:
(But I have a feeling these words are completely wasted)
Just like mine on you.
SHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh he doesn't know that he's not next on the CIA capture listSpark wrote:
yes because they are completely bereft of something called "logic"LostFate wrote:
Every single one.Spark wrote:
(But I have a feeling these words are completely wasted)
Just like mine on you.
for fuck's sake within 20 minutes you claim WHO as the stalwart of incontrovertible evidence, then dismiss a WHO-sponsored study as propaganda... and then claim its purity again!
but of course it's too inconvenient of you to consider the possibility that america isn't the source of pure evil that you've doublethought yourself to believe it is.
What a brilliant response! Well done, that was really great, you really came back at me with an awesome argument and presented me with evidence that my point of view was incorrect. Great! This is what DS&T is for!-Sh1fty- wrote:
"True, a few..."
You idiot
Whether or not 'every Arab' is being picked up there are still (or have been) a lot of gitmo inmates who are just innocent and keopt there without trial, tortured etc. Along with other 'suspects' in other US/CIA run prisons over the world in some of America's less salubrious allies. The question of whether every Arab who expresses anti-US sentiment (only Arabs? Bit of racism perhaps?) is irrelevant, you're right. So is the fact that Gitmo might not be 'the worst' place to be in prison. That has naff-all to do with the practices in place there and the general lack of concern for rights and conventions the US has shown by having that place open, never mind all the other 'secret' prisons and so on. Not like the US in general has the best prison system in the world anyway. Obviously it COULD be worse, but that's not the point, is it?M.O.A.B wrote:
So why isn't every Arab being picked up? There's plenty who've said bad things about the U.S, but they haven't ended up in Camp Delta.
But that's besides the point. Gitmo is not, by a massive longshot, the worst place for someone to be held. Period.
Considering the inmates are fed, looked after, have somewhere to sleep and even get a Koran to practice the faith some of them have skewered view of.
A significant number have also been released, some of whom decided the best way to celebrate their freedom was to go and do the same thing they said they weren't doing.
Last edited by ruisleipa (2010-03-25 00:51:11)
tsk tsk tsk
By and large it is Arabs or those of Arabic descent who are imprisoned, even if they aren't the only group incarcerated there. That ain't racist, that's fact, live with it.ruisleipa wrote:
Whether or not 'every Arab' is being picked up there are still (or have been) a lot of gitmo inmates who are just innocent and keopt there without trial, tortured etc. Along with other 'suspects' in other US/CIA run prisons over the world in some of America's less salubrious allies. The question of whether every Arab who expresses anti-US sentiment (only Arabs? Bit of racism perhaps?) is irrelevant, you're right. So is the fact that Gitmo might not be 'the worst' place to be in prison. That has naff-all to do with the practices in place there and the general lack of concern for rights and conventions the US has shown by having that place open, never mind all the other 'secret' prisons and so on. Not like the US in general has the best prison system in the world anyway. Obviously it COULD be worse, but that's not the point, is it?M.O.A.B wrote:
So why isn't every Arab being picked up? There's plenty who've said bad things about the U.S, but they haven't ended up in Camp Delta.
But that's besides the point. Gitmo is not, by a massive longshot, the worst place for someone to be held. Period.
Considering the inmates are fed, looked after, have somewhere to sleep and even get a Koran to practice the faith some of them have skewered view of.
A significant number have also been released, some of whom decided the best way to celebrate their freedom was to go and do the same thing they said they weren't doing.
Ah yes. A government dun me wrong, I'll go blow up a school, or a hospital, or a market, to get revenge.ruisleipa wrote:
As for your last point, if you'd been taken from your country by soldiers, not charged with anything, tortured, forced to kneel with a bag over your head, insulted by guards, treated like shit, and imprisoned with some people SOME OF WHOM were probably radical islamists then maybe you get, I dunno, pissed off? And want to take revenge on the country that you believe is illegally in your own country and has locked you up for years away from your family, maybe even so your wife could be raped by your village rivals? Maybe you've now been educated in the ways of making war, and the radicals in prison have used Gitmo as evidence for their argument that the US is the devils country or whatever - and it IS pretty good evidence don't you think? Or would you just leave Gitmo willingly, saying 'yessuh thank you suh fo' educatin' me' and go back to work in the fields. Phew, lucky those uppity blacks did the latter otherwise you wouldn't have slavery anymore! Oh wate...
ahh i love it how you always comes back to you're bullshit.M.O.A.B wrote:
Doing that gets you nowhere at all and earns you zero sympathy from those who migth've given it to you.
Uh-huh.LostFate wrote:
ahh i love it how you always comes back to you're bullshit.M.O.A.B wrote:
Doing that gets you nowhere at all and earns you zero sympathy from those who migth've given it to you.
