you didn't answer my question.lowing wrote:
There is racism from all races to all races. You speak as if only white people can be racists and are keeping blacks down. You will never consider that it is individuals who keep themselves down
Yes I did. How can you blame racism for blacks problems? Who do you blame for problems incurred by white people? I refuse to let you blame someone else for problems that are clearly based on individual decisons.ruisleipa wrote:
you didn't answer my question.lowing wrote:
There is racism from all races to all races. You speak as if only white people can be racists and are keeping blacks down. You will never consider that it is individuals who keep themselves down
Last edited by lowing (2010-04-02 06:51:43)
I'm not blaming anyone for anything at the mo'. I asked you a question: do you think that racism, institutionalised or otherwise, has anything to do with the problems facing 'the black community' or individual black people or for that matter others or not?lowing wrote:
Yes I did. How can you blame racism for blacks problems? Who do you blame for problems incurred by white people? I refuse to let you blame someone else for problems that are clearly based on individual decisons.
You haven't answered the question.
racism used to be the problem. That problem has been resolved 40 plus years ago. No young black person today is being kept down by anyhting other than their own atittudes.ruisleipa wrote:
I'm not blaming anyone for anything at the mo'. I asked you a question: do you think that racism, institutionalised or otherwise, has anything to do with the problems facing 'the black community' or individual black people or for that matter others or not?lowing wrote:
Yes I did. How can you blame racism for blacks problems? Who do you blame for problems incurred by white people? I refuse to let you blame someone else for problems that are clearly based on individual decisons.
You haven't answered the question.
well, that's one way of looking at it, but I think you're rather over-simplifying the situation. there is racism almost everywhere in one form or another. no racism for 40 years?? please that's just nonsense. I'm guessing you're white yeah? I'm not saying it's only a problem for black people, quite the opposite in fact, as it can be a problem for people of any colour, but it's definitely a problem. Just having a black president doesn't mean there's no racism any more. Just look at how many people are angry that there IS a black president. I agree it's not the only reason, but it's impossible to say with certainty that it's irrelevant. I'd definitely say that your statement that NO young (why young btw? Are old black people still being prejudiced against?) black person is being kept down by anything other than their own attitude is simply false.lowing wrote:
racism used to be the problem. That problem has been resolved 40 plus years ago. No young black person today is being kept down by anyhting other than their own atittudes.
Last edited by ruisleipa (2010-04-02 08:15:05)
I stopped reading when you said I SAID there was no more racism.ruisleipa wrote:
well, that's one way of looking at it, but I think you're rather over-simplifying the situation. there is racism almost everywhere in one form or another. no racism for 40 years?? please that's just nonsense. I'm guessing you're white yeah? I'm not saying it's only a problem for black people, quite the opposite in fact, as it can be a problem for people of any colour, but it's definitely a problem. Just having a black president doesn't mean there's no racism any more. Just look at how many people are angry that there IS a black president. I agree it's not the only reason, but it's impossible to say with certainty that it's irrelevant. I'd definitely say that your statement that NO young (why young btw? Are old black people still being prejudiced against?) black person is being kept down by anything other than their own attitude is simply false.lowing wrote:
racism used to be the problem. That problem has been resolved 40 plus years ago. No young black person today is being kept down by anyhting other than their own atittudes.
What I said was racism is no longer a problem for black Americans in the sense that laws and "reverse" discrimination and affirmative action have more than compensated. There is racism everywhere, not just against blacks, yet you seem to think that racism against blacks is an excuse to fail. will you allow racism against whites that same scape goat? I do not think so
hmmm..you're very good at putting words into other people's mouths (or texts). I just asked you a question to which you replied negatively, and I explained why I thought you were wrong. You did say there was no more racism. And you obviously did read the whole reply anyway. Dunno what the point of that was. You also didn't explain why only young balck people can't use that as an excuse. You said racism was 'solved' 40 years ago, which is pants. Your reply above also hints that racism IS still a problem for black Americans in some sense, just not in the fantastical sense that you specified. So what sense IS it a problem then?lowing wrote:
I stopped reading when you said I SAID there was no more racism.
What I said was racism is no longer a problem for black Americans in the sense that laws and "reverse" discrimination and affirmative action have more than compensated. There is racism everywhere, not just against blacks, yet you seem to think that racism against blacks is an excuse to fail. will you allow racism against whites that same scape goat? I do not think so
You realise that black people are economically and socially generally in much worse positions than white people in the US? Black people make up the vast majority of prison inmates. And so on. All individual errors? I don't think so.
Have you worked in poor (black) neighbourhaoods? Seen for yourself first hand how people live who aren't as fortunate as you? Have YOU ever been racially discriminated against such that you can't get a particular job for example? If not then you simply can't make blanket statements like reverse discrimination and affirmative action have 'more than made up for it'. That's another reply with no basis except your own opinions.
Actually maybe you didn't read my post because I said that there is somewhere racism against everyone and I also never said it was 'an excuse to fail'. Maybe you should read my reply before writing some half-assed comment on it, yeah?
Walk into any IHOP between 1 AM and 4 AM and you'll see the type of behaviour that puts many black people at odds with society. It seems inane to argue that society somehow disproportionately forces black people to display behaviour not conducive to success when they're eating pancakes. If they can't accomplish such a simple task, how well do you think they'll fare at job interviews? How easy do you think it is for them to cry racism when they're turned down? What do you think that their kids will grow up to be like with that kind of primary influence?ruisleipa wrote:
You realise that black people are economically and socially generally in much worse positions than white people in the US? Black people make up the vast majority of prison inmates. And so on. All individual errors? I don't think so.
Society can make you angry, society can make you bitter, but society can't make you a worse person. That comes from within.
Whats an IHOP? I'm sure you can find bad behaviour from black people, and whites, and any colour you care to name. I've never said that racism is a catch-all excuse or that it never has nothing to do with the individual. I am saying that it's not true to say that racism as a problem in society -also behaviour at odds with society coming from an individual - was 'solved' 40 years ago and racism is not something that people of all races need to face on a daily basis.mikkel wrote:
Walk into any IHOP between 1 AM and 4 AM and you'll see the type of behaviour that puts many black people at odds with society. It seems inane to argue that society somehow disproportionately forces black people to display behaviour not conducive to success when they're eating pancakes. If they can't accomplish such a simple task, how well do you think they'll fare at job interviews? How easy do you think it is for them to cry racism when they're turned down? What do you think that their kids will grow up to be like with that kind of primary influence?
Society can make you angry, society can make you bitter, but society can't make you a worse person. That comes from within.
Actually I disagree that society can't make you a 'worse' person, although to discuss that maybe requires another thread as well as deciding on what makes someone 'worse'...
Last edited by ruisleipa (2010-04-02 10:31:07)
If you refuse to take what is said IN CONTEXT, I will refuse to answer you. I am not going to let you dissect every word written and turn each one into an argument.ruisleipa wrote:
hmmm..you're very good at putting words into other people's mouths (or texts). I just asked you a question to which you replied negatively, and I explained why I thought you were wrong. You did say there was no more racism. And you obviously did read the whole reply anyway. Dunno what the point of that was. You also didn't explain why only young balck people can't use that as an excuse. You said racism was 'solved' 40 years ago, which is pants. Your reply above also hints that racism IS still a problem for black Americans in some sense, just not in the fantastical sense that you specified. So what sense IS it a problem then?lowing wrote:
I stopped reading when you said I SAID there was no more racism.
What I said was racism is no longer a problem for black Americans in the sense that laws and "reverse" discrimination and affirmative action have more than compensated. There is racism everywhere, not just against blacks, yet you seem to think that racism against blacks is an excuse to fail. will you allow racism against whites that same scape goat? I do not think so
You realise that black people are economically and socially generally in much worse positions than white people in the US? Black people make up the vast majority of prison inmates. And so on. All individual errors? I don't think so.
Have you worked in poor (black) neighbourhaoods? Seen for yourself first hand how people live who aren't as fortunate as you? Have YOU ever been racially discriminated against such that you can't get a particular job for example? If not then you simply can't make blanket statements like reverse discrimination and affirmative action have 'more than made up for it'. That's another reply with no basis except your own opinions.
Actually maybe you didn't read my post because I said that there is somewhere racism against everyone and I also never said it was 'an excuse to fail'. Maybe you should read my reply before writing some half-assed comment on it, yeah?
I said, racism has been RESOLVED, ( not solved) in the sense that discrimination against minorites has been outlawed and replaced with laws that now allow discrimination against white people.
I said YOUNG blacks because I am assuming blacks old enough to remember the era before civil rights, are now retired and no longer looking for work.
Black people who get educated, take responsibility for themselves and their actions, strive and achieve succeed JUST LIKE white people that do the same thing. WHite people that do none of these things fail just like black people that do none of these things. Only difference is black people can scream racism, white people can not.
Yes I know black people make up most of our prisions and are socially and economically in worse positions. but I was called a racist for stating it.
No blacks are legally discriminated against. Hell the reverse is true. Even of they are not they can still scream discrimination and get all the attention they need.
If you do not allow racism as an excuse to fail, why are you mentioning racism when dealing with social issues and allowing it as an argument?
thank you for your reply. The first thing I've read from you for a while that makes sense.lowing wrote:
If you refuse to take what is said IN CONTEXT, I will refuse to answer you. I am not going to let you dissect every word written and turn each one into an argument.
I said, racism has been RESOLVED, ( not solved) in the sense that discrimination against minorites has been outlawed and replaced with laws that now allow discrimination against white people.
I said YOUNG blacks because I am assuming blacks old enough to remember the era before civil rights, are now retired and no longer looking for work.
Black people who get educated, take responsibility for themselves and their actions, strive and achieve succeed JUST LIKE white people that do the same thing. WHite people that do none of these things fail just like black people that do none of these things. Only difference is black people can scream racism, white people can not.
Yes I know black people make up most of our prisions and are socially and economically in worse positions. but I was called a racist for stating it.
No blacks are legally discriminated against. Hell the reverse is true. Even of they are not they can still scream discrimination and get all the attention they need.
If you do not allow racism as an excuse to fail, why are you mentioning racism when dealing with social issues and allowing it as an argument?
Firstly, to resolve means to solve, at least I assume that's the meaning you wanted to use as none of the other meanings of the word make sense, so that point is still incorrect, since you also admit that racism is present in society, although it is not legally sanctioned any more.
I don't necessarily think you're a racist but I do think you don't understand the situation that other people less fortunate than you find themselves in. While it might be largely true that balck people who perform as well as white people do get equal rewards, it is certainly not always the case, and I don't think that you can just make blanket statements about it like you do without accounting for the vagaries of individual situations. True, discrimination according to race is illegal. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and in fact it is quite clear that it DOES happen. The fact that black people make up vastly disproportionate numbers of your prison popualtion as well as their economic situation and so on is evidence of that in my opinion.
You also seem to be assuming that every allegation of racism is just a black person trying to 'get attention'. This is clearly false, although I do agree that there may be a tendencey for some people to find such excuses as to why they find themselves in a situation they don't like. So you see, I am I fact partly in agreement with you, but I disagree with you in terms of your statements which lump all people of one 'type' together, be they black, on welfare, or whatever. Of course racism can be a reason that someone doesn't get a job or finding oneself in difficult times (to 'fail' in your parlance), I never said otherwise.
Finally can I ask you to provide evidence that racism against white people is allowed or sanctioned by law? For your reference, I do not eprsonally find positive discrimination laws and regulations attractive, generally speaking, although in certain situations they may be warranted. is it such laws that you are referring to?
You know what i meant, the issue was resolved in ther sense that laws were passed to protect from it. Of course I did not mean on an individual basis. Didn't think I had to specify.ruisleipa wrote:
thank you for your reply. The first thing I've read from you for a while that makes sense.lowing wrote:
If you refuse to take what is said IN CONTEXT, I will refuse to answer you. I am not going to let you dissect every word written and turn each one into an argument.
I said, racism has been RESOLVED, ( not solved) in the sense that discrimination against minorites has been outlawed and replaced with laws that now allow discrimination against white people.
I said YOUNG blacks because I am assuming blacks old enough to remember the era before civil rights, are now retired and no longer looking for work.
Black people who get educated, take responsibility for themselves and their actions, strive and achieve succeed JUST LIKE white people that do the same thing. WHite people that do none of these things fail just like black people that do none of these things. Only difference is black people can scream racism, white people can not.
Yes I know black people make up most of our prisions and are socially and economically in worse positions. but I was called a racist for stating it.
No blacks are legally discriminated against. Hell the reverse is true. Even of they are not they can still scream discrimination and get all the attention they need.
If you do not allow racism as an excuse to fail, why are you mentioning racism when dealing with social issues and allowing it as an argument?
Firstly, to resolve means to solve, at least I assume that's the meaning you wanted to use as none of the other meanings of the word make sense, so that point is still incorrect, since you also admit that racism is present in society, although it is not legally sanctioned any more.
I don't necessarily think you're a racist but I do think you don't understand the situation that other people less fortunate than you find themselves in. While it might be largely true that balck people who perform as well as white people do get equal rewards, it is certainly not always the case, and I don't think that you can just make blanket statements about it like you do without accounting for the vagaries of individual situations. True, discrimination according to race is illegal. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and in fact it is quite clear that it DOES happen. The fact that black people make up vastly disproportionate numbers of your prison popualtion as well as their economic situation and so on is evidence of that in my opinion.
You also seem to be assuming that every allegation of racism is just a black person trying to 'get attention'. This is clearly false, although I do agree that there may be a tendencey for some people to find such excuses as to why they find themselves in a situation they don't like. So you see, I am I fact partly in agreement with you, but I disagree with you in terms of your statements which lump all people of one 'type' together, be they black, on welfare, or whatever. Of course racism can be a reason that someone doesn't get a job or finding oneself in difficult times (to 'fail' in your parlance), I never said otherwise.
Finally can I ask you to provide evidence that racism against white people is allowed or sanctioned by law? For your reference, I do not eprsonally find positive discrimination laws and regulations attractive, generally speaking, although in certain situations they may be warranted. is it such laws that you are referring to?
as for the rest, it is also rediculous to assume when speaking of such things that I mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON. Of course I do not, but generally speaking what I say does hold water. Again I was not aware I had to specify the obvious.
Yes, it is such laws I am referring, and they are undeniable in their result
Last edited by lowing (2010-04-02 15:23:50)
You say obvious, I say...er...not obvious. I take what you write. You write all, I read all..that's your statement. For you then to come back and say 'oh it was obvious I didn't mean ALL I meant SOME' is just backtracking and a slightly lame way of conceding your original point was wrong. As you should know by now you can't assume anyone will understand anything when you write on forums. I read your written word and that's all I have to go on. So yeah, you have to explain it otherwise you come across as talking bollocks.lowing wrote:
You know what i meant, the issue was resolved in ther sense that laws were passed to protect from it. Of course I did not mean on an individual basis. Didn't think I had to specify.
as for the rest, it is also rediculous to assume when speaking of such things that I mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON. Of course I do not, but generally speaking what I say does hold water. Again I was not aware I had to specify the obvious.
Yes, it is such laws I am referring, and they are undeniable in their result
Mind you, I still haven't seen any eveidence for your generalised statements, which, while I'm sure they are true in certain cases, you're holding them to be true most of the time, which isn't the same thing. Again, since you haven't worked with poor black people or I'm guessing ever really spoken with them, and since you haven't been in their shoes yourself, your generalising statements come across as based not on evidence but personal conceptions and prejudice...which is why some people might consider you to be racist.
Although you seem to accept that racism does happen you're still not prepared to adjust your position on 'most young black people' having trouble due to their own attitudes, and therfore I guess most of the prison population being there for a good reason and not to racism in the police, courts, or unfair application of the law?
Why is it so hard for you to meet anyone half way in these discussions? I've never once seen you accept anyone else's point of view might have something going for it.
As for the laws you're talking about, just out of interest, have you personally had any experience of 'discrimination' due to those laws? Or is that another generalised statement? You still haven't provided any evidence or really answered any of my points so I'm just wondering if you can do so, or you accept that it's just your own preconceptions fuelling your anger here?
Well I tell ya what, you show me where I have stated ALL black people, in anyhting I have posted, and we will continue from there.ruisleipa wrote:
You say obvious, I say...er...not obvious. I take what you write. You write all, I read all..that's your statement. For you then to come back and say 'oh it was obvious I didn't mean ALL I meant SOME' is just backtracking and a slightly lame way of conceding your original point was wrong. As you should know by now you can't assume anyone will understand anything when you write on forums. I read your written word and that's all I have to go on. So yeah, you have to explain it otherwise you come across as talking bollocks.lowing wrote:
You know what i meant, the issue was resolved in ther sense that laws were passed to protect from it. Of course I did not mean on an individual basis. Didn't think I had to specify.
as for the rest, it is also rediculous to assume when speaking of such things that I mean EVERY SINGLE PERSON. Of course I do not, but generally speaking what I say does hold water. Again I was not aware I had to specify the obvious.
Yes, it is such laws I am referring, and they are undeniable in their result
Mind you, I still haven't seen any eveidence for your generalised statements, which, while I'm sure they are true in certain cases, you're holding them to be true most of the time, which isn't the same thing. Again, since you haven't worked with poor black people or I'm guessing ever really spoken with them, and since you haven't been in their shoes yourself, your generalising statements come across as based not on evidence but personal conceptions and prejudice...which is why some people might consider you to be racist.
Although you seem to accept that racism does happen you're still not prepared to adjust your position on 'most young black people' having trouble due to their own attitudes, and therfore I guess most of the prison population being there for a good reason and not to racism in the police, courts, or unfair application of the law?
Why is it so hard for you to meet anyone half way in these discussions? I've never once seen you accept anyone else's point of view might have something going for it.
As for the laws you're talking about, just out of interest, have you personally had any experience of 'discrimination' due to those laws? Or is that another generalised statement? You still haven't provided any evidence or really answered any of my points so I'm just wondering if you can do so, or you accept that it's just your own preconceptions fuelling your anger here?
Really? You actually need evindence that shows blacks make up most of our jail cells? You really need evidence of the issues that the black community already admit is a problem within their communties? You honestly need me to show you? You are totally oblivious to any of these issues? Well, if this is the case, I see no point in wasting my time with you, Since you do not seem to have a grasp of the world around you anyway. Do you insist I prove the obvious for the sake of argument or just for the sake of being a smart ass? and yes I am prejudice. I am full of social prejudices. and my social prejudices have nothing to do with race.
see above
Are the blacks in prison guilty? Yes or no? If the answer is no they are innocent, then you have a point. If they are guilty then they need to be in prison. They are not in prsion because they are black, they are in prsion because they committed a crime.
It is not hard, the second you come with an argument that is not some line of bullshit about evidence that the black community has issues it already has admitted to, or you wanting to dismiss my whole argument because you think I mean every single black person on the planet.
Come up with something real to meet yo half way on and I might take you seriously.
No no one has come to me and told me I did not get a job because I am white. and I am quite certain no one has gone to a black guy and said you got the job because you are black... Not how it works, but hey I guess the obvious still eludes you
well, you said that the only reason any black person finds themselves in a bad situation is because of thmeselves. I'm saying it's not, and part of the reason for that might be racism, which yo've accepted as I understand it. Of course there are black people in prison who aren't guilty, so you also concede I have a point there. I am certain there are black people in prison who are there because they are black AND they are not guilty. Fact is you DO talk in absolutes in everything you post about - blacks, welfare, muslims - so yeah imo that's a good reason to dismiss your arguments, because you fail to take into account individual situations.lowing wrote:
Well I tell ya what, you show me where I have stated ALL black people, in anyhting I have posted, and we will continue from there.
Really? You actually need evindence that shows blacks make up most of our jail cells? You really need evidence of the issues that the black community already admit is a problem within their communties? You honestly need me to show you? You are totally oblivious to any of these issues? Well, if this is the case, I see no point in wasting my time with you, Since you do not seem to have a grasp of the world around you anyway. Do you insist I prove the obvious for the sake of argument or just for the sake of being a smart ass? and yes I am prejudice. I am full of social prejudices. and my social prejudices have nothing to do with race.
see above
Are the blacks in prison guilty? Yes or no? If the answer is no they are innocent, then you have a point. If they are guilty then they need to be in prison. They are not in prsion because they are black, they are in prsion because they committed a crime.
It is not hard, the second you come with an argument that is not some line of bullshit about evidence that the black community has issues it already has admitted to, or you wanting to dismiss my whole argument because you think I mean every single black person on the planet.
Come up with something real to meet yo half way on and I might take you seriously.
No no one has come to me and told me I did not get a job because I am white. and I am quite certain no one has gone to a black guy and said you got the job because you are black... Not how it works, but hey I guess the obvious still eludes you
No, I don't need evidence from you that blacks make up massive percentages of the prison population, why would I? That's a point I brought up myself if you remember. And YET AGAIN, I DO believe that there are INDIVIDUALS who use the racism card to excuse themselves from responsibility, but that DOES NOT mean that racism NEVER plays a part in one individual's situation.
Can't be arsed to go through all your old posts but you have said that every 'young' black person cannot use racism as an excuse for finding themselves out of work or whatever, which is patently bollocks. Bizarrely your definition of 'young' only includes everyone under...er...60. Hmmm.
Obviously no-one says to a black/white person you haven't got a job cos of your race. You'd be an idiot to admit that is the reason you deny work to someone, or discriminate against them in other ways. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. So again, have you EVER felt discriminated against because of your race, or have you ever worked with or spent time with people who HAVE been discriminated against because of their race, or have you spent any time with or worked with poor people or black people (or both), or in black communities? Do you even know any black people (if so what's their opinion?)? Or poor people? Or those on welfare? Apparently not, and if not then again your position is entirely based on your admitted prejudices, which DO have to do with race, obviously, because that's what you spend half your time posting about.
Same thing here. If you insist on dissecting every word instead of addressing what I say in the context you know it is meant, I will no longer entertain your posts.ruisleipa wrote:
well, you said that the only reason any black person finds themselves in a bad situation is because of thmeselves. I'm saying it's not, and part of the reason for that might be racism, which yo've accepted as I understand it. Of course there are black people in prison who aren't guilty, so you also concede I have a point there. I am certain there are black people in prison who are there because they are black AND they are not guilty. Fact is you DO talk in absolutes in everything you post about - blacks, welfare, muslims - so yeah imo that's a good reason to dismiss your arguments, because you fail to take into account individual situations.lowing wrote:
Well I tell ya what, you show me where I have stated ALL black people, in anyhting I have posted, and we will continue from there.
Really? You actually need evindence that shows blacks make up most of our jail cells? You really need evidence of the issues that the black community already admit is a problem within their communties? You honestly need me to show you? You are totally oblivious to any of these issues? Well, if this is the case, I see no point in wasting my time with you, Since you do not seem to have a grasp of the world around you anyway. Do you insist I prove the obvious for the sake of argument or just for the sake of being a smart ass? and yes I am prejudice. I am full of social prejudices. and my social prejudices have nothing to do with race.
see above
Are the blacks in prison guilty? Yes or no? If the answer is no they are innocent, then you have a point. If they are guilty then they need to be in prison. They are not in prsion because they are black, they are in prsion because they committed a crime.
It is not hard, the second you come with an argument that is not some line of bullshit about evidence that the black community has issues it already has admitted to, or you wanting to dismiss my whole argument because you think I mean every single black person on the planet.
Come up with something real to meet yo half way on and I might take you seriously.
No no one has come to me and told me I did not get a job because I am white. and I am quite certain no one has gone to a black guy and said you got the job because you are black... Not how it works, but hey I guess the obvious still eludes you
No, I don't need evidence from you that blacks make up massive percentages of the prison population, why would I? That's a point I brought up myself if you remember. And YET AGAIN, I DO believe that there are INDIVIDUALS who use the racism card to excuse themselves from responsibility, but that DOES NOT mean that racism NEVER plays a part in one individual's situation.
Can't be arsed to go through all your old posts but you have said that every 'young' black person cannot use racism as an excuse for finding themselves out of work or whatever, which is patently bollocks. Bizarrely your definition of 'young' only includes everyone under...er...60. Hmmm.
Obviously no-one says to a black/white person you haven't got a job cos of your race. You'd be an idiot to admit that is the reason you deny work to someone, or discriminate against them in other ways. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. So again, have you EVER felt discriminated against because of your race, or have you ever worked with or spent time with people who HAVE been discriminated against because of their race, or have you spent any time with or worked with poor people or black people (or both), or in black communities? Do you even know any black people (if so what's their opinion?)? Or poor people? Or those on welfare? Apparently not, and if not then again your position is entirely based on your admitted prejudices, which DO have to do with race, obviously, because that's what you spend half your time posting about.
I am not going to discuss the definition of "IS" with you
WTF??? Come on man, you're making no sense and ignoring a perfectly valid line of debate against your arguments.lowing wrote:
Same thing here. If you insist on dissecting every word instead of addressing what I say in the context you know it is meant, I will no longer entertain your posts.
I am not going to discuss the definition of "IS" with you
LAME LAME LAME.
No am acually ignoring bullshit assertions that claim that I said and or meant to include every single black person in the world. I am ignoring requests to prove that which has long been acknowledged by even members of the very black community of which I am discussing..ruisleipa wrote:
WTF??? Come on man, you're making no sense and ignoring a perfectly valid line of debate against your arguments.lowing wrote:
Same thing here. If you insist on dissecting every word instead of addressing what I say in the context you know it is meant, I will no longer entertain your posts.
I am not going to discuss the definition of "IS" with you
LAME LAME LAME.
No you're ignoring all arguments against your own embedded-in-concrete opinions, and refusing to answer my questions. So, fail.lowing wrote:
No am acually ignoring bullshit assertions that claim that I said and or meant to include every single black person in the world. I am ignoring requests to prove that which has long been acknowledged by even members of the very black community of which I am discussing..
Might wanna re-read. My opinions are not unjustified, nor do I stand alone in them. As posted, read what Bill Cosby has to say on the matter. I will be waiting to read your dissections of his argument as "bollocks". Keeping in mind he does not see the need to address the obvious, that he is speaking only of those who are engaged in the attitudes in which he speaks, and not the entire black population of the fuckin' world. Then again, he is not arguing with you, is he?ruisleipa wrote:
No you're ignoring all arguments against your own embedded-in-concrete opinions, and refusing to answer my questions. So, fail.lowing wrote:
No am acually ignoring bullshit assertions that claim that I said and or meant to include every single black person in the world. I am ignoring requests to prove that which has long been acknowledged by even members of the very black community of which I am discussing..
Well why don't you answer any of my questions if you're so right?lowing wrote:
Might wanna re-read. My opinions are not unjustified, nor do I stand alone in them. As posted, read what Bill Cosby has to say on the matter. I will be waiting to read your dissections of his argument as "bollocks". Keeping in mind he does not see the need to address the obvious, that he is speaking only of those who are engaged in the attitudes in which he speaks, and not the entire black population of the fuckin' world. Then again, he is not arguing with you, is he?
In repsonse to your previous 'point out where I said every black person' question, you DID say every YOUNG black person and the defined that group as every black person under 60 - which is pretty much the entire black working population and then a lot more. At least you admit you're prejudiced even though 'it has nothing to do with race'...riiiight. Just because you don't hate black people doesn't mean you're not prejudiced against them.
I'm not even arguing against everything you say, I'm even agreeing with you on some of your points, I'm just not applying one train of thought to an entire race of humans as you are and ignoring all potential for differences between individuals. You post something, I respond, then you say yah yah out of context not arguing anymore. So tell me, I'll ask again, WHY are my questions out of context exactly?
As posted Bill Cosby??? WTF? Who mentioned him before? He's your spokesman for every black person in America (who said anything about the entire world by the way or is that another of your uncountable misinterpretations of everyone else's questions)???? Fuckin hell mate. I mean, I like Cosby he has some good ideas, but he's not beyond criticism, and since you have NO idea what it is to be black in America, until you do, try addressing your own intellectual and experiential shortcomings before being so judgemental about other people.
I mean, you've answered about 5 per cent of my questions even when I've met you half way. Maybe because you can't answer them?
Last edited by ruisleipa (2010-04-03 12:17:01)
DOn't know why you keep posting, already told you I am not going ot entertain a line of bullshit that actually incinuates I am speaking of every member of a race of people. If that is your argument then go find someone else to debate because it is bullshit I am not going to respond toruisleipa wrote:
Well why don't you answer any of my questions if you're so right?lowing wrote:
Might wanna re-read. My opinions are not unjustified, nor do I stand alone in them. As posted, read what Bill Cosby has to say on the matter. I will be waiting to read your dissections of his argument as "bollocks". Keeping in mind he does not see the need to address the obvious, that he is speaking only of those who are engaged in the attitudes in which he speaks, and not the entire black population of the fuckin' world. Then again, he is not arguing with you, is he?
I'm not even arguing against everything you say, I'm even agreeing with you on some of your points, I'm just not applying one train of thought to an entire race of humans as you are and ignoring all potential for differences between individuals. You posyt soething, I respond, then you say yah yah out of context not arguing anymore. So tell me, I'll ask again, WHY are my questions out of context exactly?
Bill Cosby??? WTF? He's your spokesman for every black person in America (who said anything about the entire world by the way or is that another of your uncountable misinterpretations of everyone else's questions)???? Fuckin hell mate. I mean, I like Cosby he has some good ideas, but he's not beyond criticism, and since you have NO idea what it is to be black in America, until you do, try addressing your own intellectual and experiential shortcomings before being so judgemental about other people.
I mean, you've answered about 5 per cent of my questions even when I've met you half way. Maybe because you can't answer them?
Again, here you go, I did not say Cosby is the spokes person for EVERY BLACK PERSON IN AMERICA. I said he recognizes, as most do the problems and destructive attitudes with the black community. ADDRESS that point or leave it alone, DO not say I said something I did not say.
I am not inclined to defend shit I never siad. So get in context or argue with yourself.
lowing wrote:
DOn't know why you keep posting, already told you I am not going ot entertain a line of bullshit that actually incinuates I am speaking of every member of a race of people. If that is your argument then go find someone else to debate because it is bullshit I am not going to respond to
ruisleipa wrote:
In response to your previous 'point out where I said every black person' question, you DID say every YOUNG black person and the defined that group as every black person under 60 - which is pretty much the entire black working population and then a lot more.
nope I didn't. I saidruisleipa wrote:
lowing wrote:
DOn't know why you keep posting, already told you I am not going ot entertain a line of bullshit that actually incinuates I am speaking of every member of a race of people. If that is your argument then go find someone else to debate because it is bullshit I am not going to respond toruisleipa wrote:
In response to your previous 'point out where I said every black person' question, you DID say every YOUNG black person and the defined that group as every black person under 60 - which is pretty much the entire black working population and then a lot more.
"No young black person today is being kept down by anyhting other than their own atittudes."
THis OBVIOUSLY does not include young black people that have an attitude that promotes success. However, black people that dress like assholes, act like assholes, treat others like assholes, just like members of the white race, will not get for in life. The difference being, white failures do not have a race card to play for their failures and no one to blame. Black failures have the accepted excuse to blame anyone else for their failures.
So again, debate what is said, in the context it is said or move along.
LMAO that ain't obvious cos IT'S NOT WHAT YOU FUCKIN SAID.lowing wrote:
nope I didn't. I said
"No young black person today is being kept down by anyhting other than their own atittudes."
THis OBVIOUSLY does not include young black people that have an attitude that promotes success.
Last edited by ruisleipa (2010-04-03 12:42:29)