Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
he basically wants me to link him an academic study in the humanities/liberal arts/social sciences that fulfill his criteria of a 'decent' research paper, i.e. one that meets the research aims of an engineering paper, ergo: makes a 'clear breakthrough' in knowledge; evidence of some sort of 'leap forward' or notion of linear 'progress' towards an ever-improving future or contemporaneity; it must be 'new' or concerned with the modern, because everything old-fashioned has already been read once and is thus 'done', etc. which of course, i'm not going to do, because his starting presumptions are completely ignorant and wrong. humanities research has never worked that way, and imposing some scientific 'progress' on humanities makes about as much sense as trying to put a shoe on a duck.  he posts all self-satisfied in this endeavour, as if he's 'proving' something, but really all he's proving is his own complete ignorance and narrow-mindedness. let alone the fact that much science research and academic writing is actually retroactive and tries to take new lessons from the past, with a revisionary method or historicist approach.

dilbert's idea of 'good' academia is academia with a relentless stress on the new, the novel, the 'new theory'. what he doesn't understand is that continually stressing everyone in a professional discipline to create new, original work, ends up with nobody creating anything of any merit or worth. you don't 'discover the atom' in humanities. the scientific method (somewhat) supports a notion of observable fact towards some putative objective 'truth', hence a notion of 'progress' towards that ultimate goal (e.g. a complete empirical model and explanation of the universe). humanities doesn't even trade in certainties, let alone have the arrogance to proclaim any sort of objective, universal, final 'truth' (outside of a historical or socially constituted reality), so really the whole idea of "new research making forward-looking breakthroughs" is a little faulty. dilbert won't get this though. it's a little over his head. poor thing. he thinks he's making some radical and irrefutable crushing blow to a discipline composed of thousands of years of history, and some of the smartest minds around. dilbert knows better than oxford professors.

oh and i've ignored him now, so you don't need to worry.

Last edited by Uzique The Lesser (2013-04-28 06:19:24)

coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6948|England. Stoke
Yeah I sort of got the jist that was what he after, but just wanted to check because it's so insanely stupid.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
behold! the discovery of postmodernism! in this seminal text! here you can see an excellent breakthrough in post-marxist theory, a real leap forward. behold de beauvoir's discoveries in feminism!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

behold! the discovery of postmodernism! in this seminal text! here you can see an excellent breakthrough in post-marxist theory, a real leap forward. behold de beauvoir's discoveries in feminism!
Yes, but will it make my PC go faster? Email your reply asap.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
I.Q. – The modes of behaviour appropriate to the most advanced state of technical development are not confined to the sectors in which they are actually required. So thinking submits to the social checks on its performance not merely where they are professionally imposed, but adapts to them its whole complexion. Because thought has by now been perverted into the solving of assigned problems, even what is not assigned is processed like a problem. Thought, having lost autonomy, no longer trusts itself to comprehend reality, in freedom, for its own sake. This it leaves, respectfully deluded, to the highest-paid, thereby making itself measurable. It behaves, even in its own eyes, as if it had constantly to demonstrate its fitness. Even when there is no nut to crack, thinking becomes training for no matter what exercise. It sees its objects as mere hurdles, a permanent test of its own form. Considerations that wish to take responsibility for their subject-matter and therefore for themselves, arouse suspicion of being vain, windy, asocial self-gratification. Just as for neo-positivists knowledge is split into accumulated sense-experience and logical formalism, the mental activity of the type for whom unitary knowledge is made to measure, is polarized into the inventory of what he knows and the spot-check on his thinking-power: every thought becomes for him a quiz either of his knowledgeability or his aptitude. Somewhere the right answers must be already recorded. Instrumentalism, the latest version of pragmatism, has long been concerned not merely with the application of thought but the a priori condition of its form. When oppositional intellectuals endeavour, within the confines of these influences, to imagine a new content for society, they are paralysed by the form of their own consciousness, which is modelled in advance to suit the needs of this society. While thought has forgotten how to think itself, it has at the same time become its own watchdog. Thinking no longer means anything more than checking at each moment whether one can indeed think. Hence the impression of suffocation conveyed even by all apparently independent intellectual productions, theoretical no less than artistic. The socialization of mind keeps it boxed in, isolated in a glass case, as long as society is itself imprisoned. As thought earlier internalized the duties exacted from without, today it has assimilated to itself its integration into the surrounding apparatus, and is thus condemned even before the economic and political verdicts on it come fully into force.
- theodor adorno, minima moralia (1951).
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6955
tldr not a groundbreaking world changing discovery.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
reads like a biography of dilderp.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6929|Tampa Bay Florida
tldr standardized testing sucks and is destroying the education system
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493

Spearhead wrote:

tldr standardized testing sucks and is destroying the education system
did we just read the same quotation? come on. this isn't difficult.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6914|Canberra, AUS

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

he basically wants me to link him an academic study in the humanities/liberal arts/social sciences that fulfill his criteria of a 'decent' research paper, i.e. one that meets the research aims of an engineering paper, ergo: makes a 'clear breakthrough' in knowledge; evidence of some sort of 'leap forward' or notion of linear 'progress' towards an ever-improving future or contemporaneity; it must be 'new' or concerned with the modern, because everything old-fashioned has already been read once and is thus 'done', etc. which of course, i'm not going to do, because his starting presumptions are completely ignorant and wrong. humanities research has never worked that way, and imposing some scientific 'progress' on humanities makes about as much sense as trying to put a shoe on a duck.  he posts all self-satisfied in this endeavour, as if he's 'proving' something, but really all he's proving is his own complete ignorance and narrow-mindedness. let alone the fact that much science research and academic writing is actually retroactive and tries to take new lessons from the past, with a revisionary method or historicist approach.

dilbert's idea of 'good' academia is academia with a relentless stress on the new, the novel, the 'new theory'. what he doesn't understand is that continually stressing everyone in a professional discipline to create new, original work, ends up with nobody creating anything of any merit or worth. you don't 'discover the atom' in humanities. the scientific method (somewhat) supports a notion of observable fact towards some putative objective 'truth', hence a notion of 'progress' towards that ultimate goal (e.g. a complete empirical model and explanation of the universe). humanities doesn't even trade in certainties, let alone have the arrogance to proclaim any sort of objective, universal, final 'truth' (outside of a historical or socially constituted reality), so really the whole idea of "new research making forward-looking breakthroughs" is a little faulty. dilbert won't get this though. it's a little over his head. poor thing. he thinks he's making some radical and irrefutable crushing blow to a discipline composed of thousands of years of history, and some of the smartest minds around. dilbert knows better than oxford professors.

oh and i've ignored him now, so you don't need to worry.
I just have to comment on this idea that scientific progress is somehow "linear", that each paper represents a quantifiable and recognisable leap forward in advancing human knowledge and capability. That's... not been how science has worked at all for over fifty years, probably since ww2. Even a huge, huge "breakthrough" like the Higgs involved decades of effort from thousands of scientists working independently, countless dead-ends and a lot of general faffing about.

It's how research works. A huge bulk of it is "wasted" because when you're trying to find out new things, it's not like you definitively tell beforehand what will work and what won't, and what will be useful and what won't be.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

Could you guys take this to the college thread? I want to discuss aliens.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7014|Moscow, Russia
what about them? the movie was awesome, area 51 conspiracy theory was dumb, and aliens: colonial marines game was fucking awful.

k?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

I'm interested in hearing what people think we should do with less technologically advanced aliens if we were to find them.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7014|Moscow, Russia
slavery, of course. that's what enlightened and progressive, not to mention democratic, always do with those they deem "less advanced".
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
ROGUEDD
BF2s. A Liberal Gang of Faggots.
+452|5628|Fuck this.
What kind of slavery though? Forced labor? Military thralls? Obviously if they're hot green chicks the sex trade would be ideal.
Make X-meds a full member, for the sake of 15 year old anal gangbang porn watchers everywhere!
Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|6978|Toronto | Canada

What kind of alien life though? The chances we physically meet an advanced society are slim, we're far more likely to find some sort of microbial life.  Which if we find we'd probably... just take samples and study?

Undeveloped life we'd probably just observe from a distance since interfering would raise ethical issues with people on Earth.

Any slightly developed (ie 500AD or later), intelligent life would probably just regard us as gods.

A relatively developed society (17th century) society would be interesting to interact with though.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

ROGUEDD wrote:

What kind of slavery though? Forced labor? Military thralls? Obviously if they're hot green chicks the sex trade would be ideal.
Well I was thinking about it. It depends on two things: how many of them they are and how intelligent they are.

If they are as intelligent as dogs and are plentiful then full on slavery would work. If they are as smart as us but not a lot of them then introducing them to the idea of intergalactic capitalism would be the best thing to do and exploit them through that. If there are a lot of them or if they are more intelligent than us we would have to do something drastic in order to make sure we are always in a position of dominance since unlike different races of people on Earth we cannot breed with them. Slavery in the long term would not work. We would have to commit genocide on them.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7014|Moscow, Russia

Winston_Churchill wrote:

A relatively developed society (17th century) society would be interesting to interact with though.
i dunno. we've got chechens and dags right here and, tbh, that's enough... umm... "interaction" without any actual aliens.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5825

What is a dag?
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7014|Moscow, Russia
the same as chechen, only comes from dagestan.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6914|Canberra, AUS
http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsid … eri-1.html

The new chairman of the House science committee has drafted a bill that, in effect, would replace peer review at the National Science Foundation (NSF) with a set of funding criteria chosen by Congress. For good measure, it would also set in motion a process to determine whether the same criteria should be adopted by every other federal science agency.
no no no no no no no no fucking no
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6955

Spark wrote:

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2013/04/us-lawmaker-proposes-new-criteri-1.html

The new chairman of the House science committee has drafted a bill that, in effect, would replace peer review at the National Science Foundation (NSF) with a set of funding criteria chosen by Congress. For good measure, it would also set in motion a process to determine whether the same criteria should be adopted by every other federal science agency.
no no no no no no no no fucking no
lol merika, guess you can democratize science now!
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6392|what

Teach the controversy.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX

Spark wrote:

I just have to comment on this idea that scientific progress is somehow "linear", that each paper represents a quantifiable and recognisable leap forward in advancing human knowledge and capability. That's... not been how science has worked at all for over fifty years, probably since ww2. Even a huge, huge "breakthrough" like the Higgs involved decades of effort from thousands of scientists working independently, countless dead-ends and a lot of general faffing about.

It's how research works. A huge bulk of it is "wasted" because when you're trying to find out new things, it's not like you definitively tell beforehand what will work and what won't, and what will be useful and what won't be.
Of course, tiny incremental bits of research here and there occasionally lead to something, often they don't but at least a dead end has been closed off. Its chaotic and non-linear.

All I've asked Uzique to do, repeatedly, is provide some justification for the argument that Humanities 'research' deserves the title when compared with science or technology, when its apparently backwards looking, repetitive and rarely produces much to speak of - certainly anything anyone outside 'academia' knows of, can make use of, or cares about.
I'm sure it would be great to fund 1,000s of PhDs every year to re-prove Archimedes' theory of buoyancy, or to fire alpha particles at sheets of gold foil to see what happens, again but would it really be valid research or have any prospect of leading to progress? From my reading, and the English Lit PhD sites I've linked a few times now, that seems to be the level of humanities 'research'.

That he is unable or unwilling, and then goes off in a huff is not really my fault. He has no problem denigrating anyone and everyone he considers to be doing a plebian 'non-academic' subject, or who went to a lesser college and is therefore beneath him, I don't see why I shouldn't do the same, not least as I went to the top-rated college for my field and he didn't.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-04-29 03:12:04)

Fuck Israel
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7011|PNW

Spark wrote:

http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2013/04/us-lawmaker-proposes-new-criteri-1.html

The new chairman of the House science committee has drafted a bill that, in effect, would replace peer review at the National Science Foundation (NSF) with a set of funding criteria chosen by Congress. For good measure, it would also set in motion a process to determine whether the same criteria should be adopted by every other federal science agency.
no no no no no no no no fucking no
at first i was like "lolwut"

and then i was like "NOEP"

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