Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
Not one but two distinct variants of a novel pathogen which was curiously infective of people just happened to appear in the same place in the same week.

Pure coincidence.

This happened a short distance from a lab which was working on multiple variants of the exact same pathogen and altering it to be unusually infective of people.

Pure coincidence.

Virus researchers are pulling out all the stops to prove it absolutely definitely didn't come from a virus research lab, when they don't actually have the genomes of the viruses the lab was working on, they really have nothing except what has been given to them by the chinese govt years after the event.

Nothing suspicious about this at all.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2022-07-27 04:07:21)

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uziq
Member
+476|2883
good lord you really do not understand virology.

they were detected across a period of time, and suggest mutation occurred because of repeat animal–human infections from a shared, small reservoir.

you do realize that if omicron bounces around your town for 2–3 weeks, there will be multiple distinct variants in serological analysis?

nothing suspicious if you admit that you don't know fuck all and shut up when experts are talking, sure.

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-27 04:29:09)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
The 'experts' created this.

“In an unlikely but conceivable turn of events, what if that scientist becomes infected with the virus, which leads to an outbreak and ultimately triggers a pandemic?” he wrote at the time.

“Many ask reasonable questions: given the possibility of such a scenario – however remote – should the initial experiments have been performed and/or published in the first place, and what were the processes involved in this decision? Scientists working in this field might say – as indeed I have said – that the benefits of such experiments and the resulting knowledge outweigh the risks.”

Six million dead - totally worth it.
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uziq
Member
+476|2883
it's amazing. you've been saying for years it was a bioweapon designed by the chinese who kept a secret vaccine safe – hence their fishy figures.

turns out they have the worst vaccine of all and now face frequent, widespread unrest due to pursuing (your) 'zero covid' strategy to ineffectively deal with this thing.

now some new analysis has come out which states that there are two separate variants of the 'original' covid, spaced out some weeks apart, suggesting some small-scale, local reinfection back-and-forth ... and you use that then to suit your argument. "aha! there were TWO variants! two in one place! they MUST have made it!"

read a fucking journal.

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-27 04:35:36)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
Nope, never once said they had a vaccine, I've said they'll have a vaccine for the next one.

Would it be surprising if two variants of smallpox appeared unexpectedly on the doorstep or Porton Down within days of each other.

"Not me gov, it was clearly the sheep"
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uziq
Member
+476|2883
smallpox is an incredibly stable, non-mutative variola virus, not a coronavirus.

smallpox is a DNA-based virus, for one thing; and covid is an RNA-based virus. great comparison!

have you tracked the serological data for covid? it is constantly, always mutating.

two variants being identified in the first small population of infected animals and humans is NOT surprising.

jesus fucking christ you are just illiterate. impossible to talk to.

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-27 06:13:03)

Larssen
Member
+94|1318

Dilbert_X wrote:

Science and Nature have published some fairly shit articles, written and funded by for-profit virus researchers.

If you actually read it there's plenty unusual about this outbreak - BUT IT DEFINITELY DIDN'T COME FROM A LAB EVEN THOUGH WE CAN'T SAY FOR SURE BECAUSE IT JUST DIDN'T OKAY NOW SHUT UP AND LET US PLAY WITH OUR VIRUSES.
This article has been cowritten by several leading virologists who were chosen to take part in WHO working groups wrt the coronavirus pandemic, i.e. the most pre-eminent experts in their field. It was also co-written/contributed to by no less than 26 experts, and peer reviewed. That's about as high a standard you can get for publication.

One of the most important bits here:

Additional introductions
The extinction rate of our simulated epidemics (i.e., simulations that did not produce self-sustaining transmission chains) indicate there were likely multiple failed introductions of SARS-CoV-2. Similar to our previous findings (23), 77.8% of simulated epidemics went extinct. These failed introductions produced a mean of 2.06 infections and 0.10 hospitalizations; hence, failed introductions could easily go unnoticed. If we treat each SARS-CoV-2 introduction, failed or successful, as a Bernoulli trial and simulate introductions until we see two successful introductions, we estimate that eight (95% HPD: 2–23) introductions led to the establishment of both lineage A and B in humans.
Apart from that there's lots of genomic reconstruction done by the team definitely indicating the origin of the virus was likely in the wuhan market AND they point out that animals which they know carried coronavirusses (with relevant genomic markers) were sold there.

So back to the Wuhan lab conspiracy; the fact that there were likely eight failed introductions of the virus rules out accidental contamination. No possible way the lab would fuck up routine safety protocols on eight different occasions. An intentional infection would be bizarro universe and also incredibly far fetched if you realise they failed about 8 times before succesfully introducing the A and B lineages. The wuhan institute on virology research is also located over 20km away from the seafood market in an incredibly dense city of 12 million people. A leak should be traceable to those origins instead of the market..

Last edited by Larssen (2022-07-27 06:52:35)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
But they didn't actually detect any failed introductions did they? They didn't find 2.06 infections or 0.10 of a hospitalisation.
It was just a simulation, its not a fact, it doesn't prove or disprove anything.

What is far-fetched is the idea that eight failed introductions over a period of time delivered no detectable trace but two viable lineages in the same week.
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Larssen
Member
+94|1318
Dilbert this is a case of Occam's razor.

1. All available evidence points to an origin in the exotic animals market. The market and its surrounding area is where the first cases emerged. For the B lineage it's confirmed. The earliest A cases were in people who lived close to or had been near the market.
2. It has been proven that covid can adapt to and infect across several species.
3. The market in question sold animals that were/are known carriers of coronavirusses.
4. The A lineage contains nucleotides that exactly match those in coronavirusses in horseshoe bats. The B lineage could've come about in an intermediate host infection.

I also don't think throwing out epidemiological simulation on the basis that these were simulations is good scientific thinking, sorry. But even if you do so there is NO evidence linking the Wuhan virological institute to the spread of the virus. There is no infection trail. It would also require a set of wildly convoluted circumstances and events for this to be true (the least of which being that a scientist must've teleported to the Wuhan animals market, vial of covid in hand). There is in the end only circumstantial bullshit like the notion that they discovered a covid relative lineage in horseshoe bats. No shit that this research institute investigated virusses. I also don't think it's coincidence there's a big virology research institute in a globally connected city of 12+ million people.

Last edited by Larssen (2022-07-27 07:05:57)

uziq
Member
+476|2883
'simulations and models don't count!' wooooo boy, do i have something to tell you about how a lot of physics, biology, chemistry, pharmacology/medicine and engineering research is undertaken ...

epidemiological simulations have been immensely useful throughout this pandemic. and, if you're looking for a 'smoking gun' or reconstruction of the origins of a pandemic that began 3+ years ago, the simulation w/ rigorous mathematical modelling is literally as good as you're going to get.

nevermind that the size of the conspiracy for a 'chinese bioweapon' or wuhan lab leak scenario is at this point on the order of complexity of a 9/11 cover-up. how would the CCP have silenced so many researchers, drs, not to mention persuaded the entire international scientific community to keep quiet, for 3 years? use your head, seriously.

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-27 07:31:39)

uziq
Member
+476|2883
https://petersweden.substack.com/p/card-co2-tracking

here you go dilbert.

there is now a credit card that tracks your CO2 emissions and blocks you from making any further purchases once you’ve exceeded your monthly limit.

seeing as you are the mascot and representative here of the ‘consumer choices’-based solution to climate change, i trust you’ll sign up for one right away.

or are you worried that you won’t be able to drive home from the office on the 7th day of every month?

put your money where your mouth is.

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

'simulations and models don't count!' wooooo boy, do i have something to tell you about how a lot of physics, biology, chemistry, pharmacology/medicine and engineering research is undertaken ...

epidemiological simulations have been immensely useful throughout this pandemic. and, if you're looking for a 'smoking gun' or reconstruction of the origins of a pandemic that began 3+ years ago, the simulation w/ rigorous mathematical modelling is literally as good as you're going to get.
Except these simulations are based on data which has been supplied exclusively by the CCP to bolster their case that covid originated in the Huanan Bat Market.

Any simulation based on junk data is ... junk no?
As a non-STEM ignoramus even you should be able to see that.
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uziq
Member
+476|2883
actually the chinese authorities did share lots of serology data with the international community in the early stages of the pandemic. you are once again fudging the details. we have a pretty solid idea of the genetic make-up of the earliest cases of covid, and none of them point towards gain-of-function engineering.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
As far as I remember the Chinese shared nothing and denied access to anything.
They've shared what they've wanted to share and no independent data whatsoever has been gathered.
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uziq
Member
+476|2883
they didn’t share that it was human-to-human transmissible in the crucial early stages. they didn’t share open information on the progress of spread in wuhan in the early weeks.

but the serological analysis of the novel pathogen were published publicly almost as soon as it turned up in hospital tests. there were literal journal articles/letters published on it by chinese researchers.

the above analysis of covid’s lineage and origins are solid. all you have in retort are conspiracy theories of 9/11 levels of grandiosity.
uziq
Member
+476|2883
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v44/n15 … dpocalypse

great write-up on the legendary fraud of VW and its noble engineering bosses. immense and immensely damaging lies.

and this lot should be trusted to run society?
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,998|6203|USA

Dilbert has hit his limit this year with Starship Troopers. No new books until 2023.
uziq
Member
+476|2883
for the key bits:

So far, so bad. But VW compounded its problems by stalling the regulator for a year, using every available means to challenge the accuracy of the data. On 18 September 2015, the Environmental Protection Agency published a Notice of Violation, and made it official: VW hadn’t just been failing environmental tests, it had been systematically lying about them. Note that all the time these cars had been on sale in the US, VW’s advertising had focused on the environmental credentials of the polluting vehicles. As Ewing argues, ‘Volkswagen doubled down by aggressively promoting its cars as environmentally virtuous. That strategy elevated the emissions cheating from a mere violation of regulations to a gigantic consumer fraud.’ It is a choice that can only be explained as an institutional contempt for the rules – a contempt for the idea that anyone knew better than VW itself.

You would expect this to go down badly with regulators everywhere, and so it proved. Eleven million cars had been fitted with defeat devices, most of them in Europe. Fines and compensation took the company to the brink: five years ago, when Ewing published his book, ‘it was not hard to imagine a worst-case scenario in which the total cost would add up to $50 billion or more. That sum might be enough to force Volkswagen into bankruptcy, endangering the jobs of Volkswagen’s 600,000 workers worldwide, the vast majority of whom had done nothing wrong.’ In the event, the bill by March 2020 was $34.7 billion, with the UK bill of £193 million arriving in 2022. As with the financial crisis, nobody senior went to jail. Oliver Schmidt, an engineering executive, made the mistake of going on holiday to the US, where he was arrested, charged, tried, pled guilty and was sent to prison for seven years. (Schmidt’s sentence was supposed to run until Christmas this year, but he was transferred to prison in Germany and released in January 2021.) Germany does not extradite to the US, so the five other senior executives charged by the US authorities were safe from the Feds. A number of them were tried in Germany, where they were all acquitted. It turned out that the demanding, notoriously micro-managing chief executive of VW, Thomas Winterkorn, had known nothing about the scandal, and hadn’t read a warning memo about it sent to him in May 2014 – which was lucky, because if he had, his subsequent actions would have amounted to fraud, and he would probably have gone to prison. A good day to flake on the paperwork, Herr Winterkorn! But maybe skip the trip to Disneyland, OK?
amazing. dilbert arraigns all of 'humanities' as a discipline because of one limited example of ultra-privileged toffs behaving badly.

but here we have ... the paragon of engineering leadership ... the engineers heading the biggest car company in the world, in the biggest engineering/manufacturing industry in germany, itself the biggest economy in europe ... and they are committing acts of gross malfeasance, fraud, and unethical violations of trust.

surely if all of humanities leadership can be thrown out because of the public school toff rotten apples, this is damning evidence that engineers are not fit to lead society?!? how could this happen? one would think that a VW boss would be at the very apex of the engineering foodchain. and yet.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
I think the humanities enthusiasts have had their chance, time for new blood.

https://www.atomicheritage.org/sites/default/files/Stalin_in_July_1941.jpg

https://st.depositphotos.com/1121376/4642/i/950/depositphotos_46424815-stock-photo-adolf-hitler-saluting-in-berlin.jpg

https://foreignpolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/boris-johnson-GettyImages-1239974720.jpg?w=1500
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uziq
Member
+476|2883
erm stalin was an engineering stan. when not pursuing the totalitarian rule thing, he tried to create a type of society ran by scientists and engineers. that was what sovietism was: the utopian communist future was to be made reality by a caste of engineers. you’re really not very well read, are you?

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1850331

hitler a ‘humanities type’ he had no formal humanities education? his entire thing was over stressing his military contributions in some reservist loser brigade that got wiped out like fodder in their first engagement. he wasn’t exactly stood on a podium quoting latin.

what did i tell you about mentioning hitler in every single argument? lmao. stalin … hitler … boris johnson!!! what a series.

Last edited by uziq (2022-08-03 22:08:16)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

stalin … hitler … boris johnson!!! what a series.
Next Truss, this will be worse.
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uziq
Member
+476|2883
i think you should grow up and start reasoning like an adult.

and hitler, though he effectively had no formal education, actually enrolled in a technical school, i.e. a polytechnic, to learn ... technical drawing. you know, the types of skills that are relevant to architects, engineers and technicians. there isn't a single thing about his background that denotes 'humanities snob'. his childhood ambition was to become an artist and go to an art school. art schools do not dispense formal humanities education, dilbert.

80% of your lifetime's reading has been conspicuously on nazi germany (because that's not weird at all) and you still get the elementary details of hitler's biography mixed up?

Last edited by uziq (2022-08-04 02:30:39)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i80% of your lifetime's reading has been conspicuously on nazi germany
Er, no it hasn't.
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uziq
Member
+476|2883
considering that you mention hitler/nazism or the jews/holocaust on an almost daily basis, in the most conspicuously inane way verging on solecism, one would easily think that you've got a rather ww2-heavy reading list. you can't seem to reason through any topic without analogy to hitler.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+591|3150
What's wrong with having World War 2 brain? Some of us make our living that way.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg

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