uziq
Member
+476|2883
every tense or aggressive situation i’ve been in at parties or bars/clubs has had a heavy alcohol component.

conversely, when you go the sort of club where everyone only buys water (hint hint), there’s smiles all round and an overwhelmingly positive atmosphere. i don’t know why anyone going out dancing for an evening would drink alcohol and become sluggish and given to volatility when they could take MDMA.

/shrug
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
https://i.imgur.com/QZHgdFO.jpg
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,998|6203|USA

uziq wrote:

every tense or aggressive situation i’ve been in at parties or bars/clubs has had a heavy alcohol component.

conversely, when you go the sort of club where everyone only buys water (hint hint), there’s smiles all round and an overwhelmingly positive atmosphere. i don’t know why anyone going out dancing for an evening would drink alcohol and become sluggish and given to volatility when they could take MDMA.

/shrug
People, with a glass of alcohol literally in hand, have lectured me about the dangers of other drugs "even in small amounts." Only through monumental effort can I keep my mouth shut. Bitch I don't even have a bottle of melatonin, why am I subject to this monologue?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+591|3150
I have been awake for over 24 hours. I started vaping after work at 3 PM Thursday and it is 8 AM Friday. I am having a good time still. I will go to bed and awake relaxed and rested. If I was on a bender like this with alcohol I would wake up sick or have passed out by now. Instead I am texting and thinking about the weekend.

We just need to mass produce edibles at affordable prices. I have a lot of things to say about that.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2022-07-15 05:31:13)

https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

every tense or aggressive situation i’ve been in at parties or bars/clubs has had a heavy alcohol component.

conversely, when you go the sort of club where everyone only buys water (hint hint), there’s smiles all round and an overwhelmingly positive atmosphere. i don’t know why anyone going out dancing for an evening would drink alcohol and become sluggish and given to volatility when they could take MDMA.

/shrug
However out in the real world people coming down from a weekend of partying are an actual menace.

While on Saturday night the might be as happy as beans, come monday morning everything has crashed and they're aggressive and paranoid, dangerous to be around, on the road, operating machinery etc.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+476|2883
people 'coming down' are a menace? based on what?

nobody gets aggressive and paranoid on an ecstasy comedown. you are trading in tabloid stereotypes.

a person after taking MDMA needs sleep and rest. in fact, if you only take it once every 3 months, as is recommended, the comedown is negligible. the popular trope of a low depressed period and comedown only really comes into effect for people who are blowing out their seratonin supplies on a regular basis – abusing the drug, in other words. do you need to be reminded of the consequences of alcohol abuse, dilbert?

believe it or not, not every drug automatically makes you a frazzled homeless crack addict.

most people who take a drug like 2Cb, mushrooms, MDMA, etc, report increased levels of happiness for months afterwards. they are used in clinical trials for depression/anxiety disorders for just this reason.

or, similarly, do you think MDMA is being considered as a medicine for PTSD if it makes people 'aggressive and paranoid'? lmao.

you are literally talking about things you know nothing about. zilch. all you have are absurd caricatures. "people taking drugs are jumpy and dangerous!" erm, citation needed, please.

on the other hand, there are reams of data linking alcohol use to increased violence and anti-social behaviour.

MDMA lasts for a few hours. other than catching up on rest, you can operate machinery the next day (not sure why anyone would need to do this; seems like a rather niche situation. a raving machinery operator? not the biggest demographic).

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-15 20:22:17)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
Thankyou but I have been in workplaces where people have been sent home because they're gibbering wrecks after a weekend of taking drugs.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+476|2883
that’s rather vague. what’s the relation to MDMA? you do know different drugs have very different effects, right?

people get ‘strung out’ by abusing speed/amphetamine, meth, etc. that includes prescription drugs like ritalin and adderral.

never seen anyone be violent, paranoid or jumpy after taking a pill at a club. tired out, sure. ‘blue mondays’ are a thing. but violent and jittery? sounds like abuse of a different drug.

people don’t take MDMA compulsively and often. it’s not addictive and doesn’t encourage that sort of behaviour. people don’t tend to re-dose. it doesn’t lead to compulsive behaviours.

again, you have neither experience nor academic knowledge of the subject. ignorance, pure and simple. ‘i know someone who was jittery at work!’.

citation needed.

it's also intrinsically funny to me that you're scaremongering and talking darkly about the 'crash' from drug-taking, and yet the universal experience of an alcohol hangover or sickness from drinking is so minimized and casualized. you think people who drink on the weekends don't have 'cognitive effects' or lasting impairments at work on monday? lmao. read a book, i beseech you. being around heavy drinkers isn't fun, either, dilbert. it's called drug abuse.

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-15 20:42:29)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
Did you know that people take drugs besides MDMA?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+476|2883
did you know i was speaking specifically about a suitable replacement for alcohol on nights out?

sorry that i can't justify the statement that 'all drugs are good for you always'. that was never my claim?

i said that, to counteract the harms and risks of alcohol, we have suitable replacements that are conducive to having a good time in a healthy way.

sorry that your colleagues are crystal meth addicts. not sure how relevant that is to my post?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
Do I have to post the pictures again of people's heads which look like Aero bars after long term MDMA use?

Its as if you can't remember anything and are stuck in a loop.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+476|2883
long-term and chronic abuse of alcohol damages your brain, too, dumkopf. alcohol is a NEUROTOXIC substance.

the scientific consensus is that moderate use of MDMA is not harmful to your brain tissue. that's why it's being considered as MEDICINE.

remind me how many therapies or treatments recommend alcohol? oh, that's right. because, as the above study said, alcohol is HARMFUL in ANY quantity.

it's like you have a giant cognitive block around your favourite tipple of choice.

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-15 21:40:42)

uziq
Member
+476|2883
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYBpPiSXkAEbU3F?format=jpg&name=large
Larssen
Member
+94|1318
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337

Can we now finally throw out the Wuhan Lab conspiracy bullshit.

What's amazing to me is that despite the publication of this article, some of the most upvoted comments on this issue on news message boards just outright discard the research to say 'I dunt believe it China did this intentionally'

We as a species truly are too fucking stupid to function in advanced society. Most people's hunter gatherer brains can't cope with anything more thorough than a 2 sentence appeal to emotion

Last edited by Larssen (2022-07-26 14:30:53)

uziq
Member
+476|2883
dilbert knows they were making a bio weapon. they are using GAIN OF FUNCTION techniques!!!!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX

Larssen wrote:

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337

Can we now finally throw out the Wuhan Lab conspiracy bullshit.

What's amazing to me is that despite the publication of this article, some of the most upvoted comments on this issue on news message boards just outright discard the research to say 'I dunt believe it China did this intentionally'

We as a species truly are too fucking stupid to function in advanced society. Most people's hunter gatherer brains can't cope with anything more thorough than a 2 sentence appeal to emotion
Except that article doesn't really present the evidence to refute anything at all.

"Two strains of covid were released in Wuhan within days in November 2019 THIS PROVES IT CAN'T HAVE COME FROM A LAB"

I'd say it proves the exact opposite.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+476|2883
read the methodology you illiterate crank.

We reconstructed the progenitor of SARS-CoV-2, the recombinant common ancestor (the recCA). We (i) inferred a maximum likelihood tree of 31 sarbecovirus genomes (SARS-CoV-2 and 30 closely related sarbecoviruses sampled from bats and pangolins) across 15 predefined non-recombinant regions (13) with IQ-TREE v2.0.7 (60), (ii) inferred the sequence of the ancestor of SARS-CoV-2 in each tree with TreeTime v0.8.1 (61), and (iii) concatenated the resulting sequences. We next inferred a maximum likelihood tree of the 787 SARS-CoV-2 taxa with IQ-TREE and performed ancestral state reconstruction with TreeTime to identify substitutions that were reversions from Wuhan-Hu-1 to the recCA across the SARS-CoV-2 phylogeny.
there are identifiable genomic markers for 'gain-of-function' research. you can see the human intervention, or at least back-trace its logic when you consider what any putative GoF research would seek to do. the early covid lineages did not look 'designed' as a bioweapon for maximum effectivity against humans. we would be able to see a 'signature' of such purposeful mutations, if that were the case. you are stupid.

The most probable explanation for the introduction of SARS-CoV-2 into humans involves zoonotic jumps from as-yet undetermined, intermediate host animals at the Huanan market (34, 38, 39). Through late-2019 the Huanan market sold animals that are known to be susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection and capable of intra-species transmission (40–42). The presence of potential animal reservoirs, coupled with the timing of the lineage B primary case and the geographic clustering of early cases around the Huanan market (39), support the hypothesis that SARS-CoV-2 lineage B jumped into humans at the Huanan market in mid-November 2019.

[...]

Other coronavirus epidemics and outbreaks in humans, including SARS-CoV-1, MERS-CoV, and, most recently, porcine deltacoronavirus in Haiti, have been the result of repeated introductions from animal hosts (45–47). These repeated introductions were easily identifiable because human viruses in these outbreaks were more closely related to viruses sampled in the animal reservoirs than to other human viruses. However, the genomic diversity within the putative SARS-CoV-2 animal reservoir at the Huanan market was likely shallower than that seen in SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV reservoirs (45, 46, 48). Hence, even though lineages A and B had nearly identical haplotypes, their MRCA likely existed in an animal reservoir. The ability to disentangle repeated introductions of SARS-CoV-2 from a shallow genetic reservoir has previously been shown in the early SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in Washington state, where two viruses, separated by two mutations, were independently introduced from, and shared an MRCA in, China (figs. S23 and S30 and supplementary text) (11).

Successful transmission of both lineage A and B viruses after independent zoonotic events indicates that evolutionary adaptation within humans was not needed for SARS-CoV-2 to spread (49). We now know that SARS-CoV-2 can readily spread after reverse-zoonosis to Syrian hamsters (Mesocricetus auratus), American mink (Neovison vison), and white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus), indicating its host generalist capacity (50–55). Furthermore, once an animal virus acquires the capacity for human infection and transmission, the only remaining barrier to spillover is contact between humans and the pathogen. Thereafter, a single zoonotic transmission event indicates the conditions necessary for spillovers have been met, which portends additional jumps. For example, there were at least two zoonotic jumps of SARS-CoV-2 into humans from pet hamsters in Hong Kong (56) and dozens from minks to humans on Dutch fur farms (52, 53).

We show that it is highly unlikely that SARS-CoV-2 circulated widely in humans earlier than November 2019 and that there was limited cryptic spread, with, at most, dozens of SARS-CoV-2 infections in the weeks leading up to the inferred tMRCA, but likely far fewer. By late-December, when SARS-CoV-2 was identified as the etiological agent of COVID-19 (8), the virus had likely been introduced into humans multiple times as a result of persistent contact with a viral reservoir.
this is as good a reconstruction of the timeline as events as you are going to get.

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-27 03:14:39)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
Other coronavirus epidemics and outbreaks in humans, including SARS-CoV-1, MERS-CoV, and, most recently, porcine deltacoronavirus in Haiti, have been the result of repeated introductions from animal hosts (45–47). These repeated introductions were easily identifiable because human viruses in these outbreaks were more closely related to viruses sampled in the animal reservoirs than to other human viruses. However, the genomic diversity within the putative SARS-CoV-2 animal reservoir at the Huanan market was likely shallower than that seen in SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV reservoirs (45, 46, 48)

Successful transmission of both lineage A and B viruses after independent zoonotic events indicates that evolutionary adaptation within humans was not needed for SARS-CoV-2 to spread (49)

Seems likely it was a single source and ready to infect humans. Strange no?

Literally nothing there to say it didn't pass through the lab.

Gain of function, no gain of function - and it seems to be ready-evolved to infect humans, which as the article suggests is unusual - could easily have passed through the Wuhan lab.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+476|2883
viruses evolving to jump across animal–human barriers is not unusual. the article literally points out multiple examples to illustrate this point, dilbert.

it cites no fewer than five studies on 'host generalist capacity'.

amazing how you take a conspiratorial mindset even to peer-reviewed papers in fucking Science.

Literally nothing there to say it didn't pass through the lab
why in the fuck would an animal host or 'single source' (that's not what the article says) that was experimented on at a wuhan lab end up in a food market?

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-27 03:27:20)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
Science and Nature have published some fairly shit articles, written and funded by for-profit virus researchers.

If you actually read it there's plenty unusual about this outbreak - BUT IT DEFINITELY DIDN'T COME FROM A LAB EVEN THOUGH WE CAN'T SAY FOR SURE BECAUSE IT JUST DIDN'T OKAY NOW SHUT UP AND LET US PLAY WITH OUR VIRUSES.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

why in the fuck would an animal host or 'single source' (that's not what the article says) that was experimented on at a wuhan lab end up in a food market?
Thats not what I actually said, the virus may have ended up in the food market.

But its known that Chinese labs were in the habit of selling used lab-rats to food markets. Amazing eh?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2022-07-27 03:30:23)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+476|2883

Dilbert_X wrote:

Science and Nature have published some fairly shit articles, written and funded by for-profit virus researchers.

If you actually read it there's plenty unusual about this outbreak - BUT IT DEFINITELY DIDN'T COME FROM A LAB EVEN THOUGH WE CAN'T SAY FOR SURE BECAUSE IT JUST DIDN'T OKAY NOW SHUT UP AND LET US PLAY WITH OUR VIRUSES.
yes, scientists really want to be left alone with their evil gain-of-function research.

remember that the next time you want to take a new medicine or eat a genetically modified crop.

you are hopeless.

Science and Nature have to declare any conflicts or interest or funding sources. to not do so is a serious breach of ethics and a retraction-worthy offence. the last time a journal had to retract any covid-related was the Lancet rushing to publish some early vaccine findings by a researcher with his own private dealings. it was a major furore. no, science and nature are not frequently in the business of publishing puff pieces for the 'for-profit' sector.
uziq
Member
+476|2883

Dilbert_X wrote:

But its known that Chinese labs were in the habit of selling used lab-rats to food markets. Amazing eh?
citation needed.

where do rats come into this, anyway? there is no rat link in the genetic sequencing. bats and pangolins. does the wuhan lab test viruses on pangolins?!?

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-27 03:34:11)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,786|5537|eXtreme to the maX
The Wuhan lab tests viruses on live bats.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+476|2883
okay so please give me a citation proving that rats (or bats, as it may be) from the wuhan lab have ended up in food markets.

or is this just a scurrilous rumour? like how the chinese gave us all covid because they like eating bat soup?

is this a bio-weapon that china deployed to nuke the world and, seemingly, their own economy and population worst of all ... or is it cash-strapped lab workers selling on their dead test animals to the local market for a few bob? come on, at least decide on a fucking narrative, you plonker.

Last edited by uziq (2022-07-27 03:49:43)

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2022 Jeff Minard