Announcement

Major changes have been made site wide. If you experience problems, please send tazz. a PM.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,012|6258|USA

A lot of less urbanized places in the country are only "pedestrian friendly" as you approach city center. The further out you go, the more rapidly sparse and occasionally overgrown sidewalks become, forcing you to make frequent crossings to get to more sidewalk, or even level ground where you won't twist your ankle in the mud or rip your flesh on brambles. It's not even that they just started building sidewalks in some of these places either. It's been decades and I guess some towns just figure they'll bully new construction or significant remodel into doing it for them (snail's pace that is). Higher priority it seems is sometimes placed on creating pretty median strips.

Not bad walking if you're within like 15-30 minutes of your (second or third) job, but a huge problem right now in having to commute insane distances to work in places people can't afford to live. Then there's all the other errands you're going to need to run, a 10 mile trip to the one grocery store in Beaver Bog Mountains, and other chores that (disgusting) busses in your area don't really route for, there's just not enough time in the day.
uziq
Member
+489|2938

Larssen wrote:

Their entire infrastructure has been designed for cars. It would take trillions to redesign, nevermind the necessary cultural change
they're the richest country on earth. many less wealthy countries have transitioned from auto-urbanism to pedestrian/bike-friendly systems.

america's infrastructure is crumbling, and its public transit systems are lamentable. this is a political failure, not a 'lack of funds'.

look up the disaster of california's high-speed rail project, proposed to link the LA and SF metropolitan areas, for instance.

a state economy which is richer than almost every country on earth -- and a total calamity.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5592|eXtreme to the maX
Americans like living in large inefficient houses well away from other Americans.

Seems like America is starting to boil though, maybe they will wake up.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+791|6171|United States of America
I took Larssen's point to be something I've thought about too in that it's not impossible, but it'd be far easier if we something just had to be built than to replace existing systems. Looking at my own city, anything more than bus lanes would require closing off large portions of downtown for extensive construction. There's basically no rail options as it currently stands. Some street lanes could be converted to protected bike lanes. However, it's all difficult to do when people already live and work in the areas. If anything, COVID lockdowns would've been the best opportunity for large urban infrastructure projects like that.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5592|eXtreme to the maX
More buses and electric cars are the only options, besides abandoning complete cities like Detroit.

Or put a big fat tax on petrol to fund public infrastructure like most developed countries.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,012|6258|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

Americans like living in large inefficient houses well away from other Americans.

Seems like America is starting to boil though, maybe they will wake up.
Wow.
Larssen
Member
+98|1373

uziq wrote:

Larssen wrote:

Their entire infrastructure has been designed for cars. It would take trillions to redesign, nevermind the necessary cultural change
they're the richest country on earth. many less wealthy countries have transitioned from auto-urbanism to pedestrian/bike-friendly systems.

america's infrastructure is crumbling, and its public transit systems are lamentable. this is a political failure, not a 'lack of funds'.

look up the disaster of california's high-speed rail project, proposed to link the LA and SF metropolitan areas, for instance.

a state economy which is richer than almost every country on earth -- and a total calamity.
I've read up on the high speed rail project and it kind of proves the point. Not disagreeing that it's a good and preferable idea, but the execution appears to be hideously complicated. For legal, political, cultural, some practical reasons all leading to an astronomical cost. And that's just for 1 high speed rail in a small part of the country. Imagine redesigning the entire US.

It can only really be done if both state and federal governments broadly agree on the need to transition away from cars, across political spectrums. That will probably still leave lots of legal obstacles in the form of zoning rights, private lands that need to be bought, planning for mass renovations and redirecting traffic etc. It's a monster undertaking.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,726|6223|Oxferd Ohire
https://i.redd.it/mv7y2pxcue691.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
uziq
Member
+489|2938
you can see the same above image repeated in cities all over. destroyed high-density urban centres and turned half of the surface area into carparks.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,012|6258|USA

To put it nicely, Cincinnati is not the safest city in the country, and last I checked it's getting worse. I imagine that a hotel there, rather like one I was at in Seattle a few years back, might strongly insist against walking around (at night) and suggest taking a cab to where you want to go. Even if we could get everyone who needs to agree to agree on change towards prioritizing pedestrian friendly architecture and city planning, it would be nice if other social changes happened at the same time to address major cause of violent crime.
uziq
Member
+489|2938
having giant arterial roads bisecting neighbourhoods is one of the things that contributes to ghettoization, though.

wasn't that city where the massive race riots were (tulsa?) rebuilt so the black folks were safely on the other side of the expressway, without access to the main civic amenities in town?

the city planning history of new york, with its major luminaries like robert moses, is an instructive example of how 'urban design', roads and infrastructure projects, etc, can be engineered with social purposes in mind.

Last edited by uziq (2022-06-20 22:13:55)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,012|6258|USA

I will not contest that city planning can push this stuff, but part of my point I suppose is I think that repairing this damage will require more than traffic revisions. On the miracle occasion that Americans, and Americans in the right positions of power, all agree to go along with it. We're driver oriented and can't even agree on fixing a pothole.
uziq
Member
+489|2938
it's almost as if many other countries have managed to regenerate urban centres, promote public transport and cycle paths, etc, all at the same time as part of a coordinated programme.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,012|6258|USA

A lot of countries have really desirable traits that the US is severely lagging behind on, complaints spanning multiple threads here in DST alone. It's hard to imagine a lot of cooperation on a comprehensive packet. All a Republican has to do is see the affixed (D) and minds are made up against it.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,726|6223|Oxferd Ohire
What. I haven't heard of anyone being afraid to go out at night in years. The 90s and 00s were awful. It started turning around in the 10s. Of course there are still bad areas but with gentrification they're being pushed into suburbs
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+605|3206

RTHKI wrote:

https://i.redd.it/mv7y2pxcue691.jpg
The people who authorized that must have had their reasons for doing so. It reminds me of people who post pictures of historic buildings that were replaced with modern glass buildings. The old buildings might look nice in black and white photos but they were probably eyesores back in their time.

Crime is really bad in the U.S. right now. I don't blame the highways.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,726|6223|Oxferd Ohire
Well the areas they paved over were poor black neighborhoods
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,012|6258|USA

RTHKI wrote:

What. I haven't heard of anyone being afraid to go out at night in years. The 90s and 00s were awful. It started turning around in the 10s. Of course there are still bad areas but with gentrification they're being pushed into suburbs
I'll defer to your perception since you live in the state. I'm just going off of statistics.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5592|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

imagine thinking indians living on $3 a week are the problem when this is the norm in your culture.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVere4dVUAEs_5-?format=jpg&name=medium

related:
https://twitter.com/brenttoderian/statu … je4NfqwC4g
https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/2016-05/global_emissions_sector_2015.png?itok=zS5v3kK2
Electricity use is the bigger problem, suggest turning off your refrigerator.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+489|2938
it's a bit easier to nudge people's consumer habits and behaviour into public transport and car-pooling than it is to encourage them to forego, erm, electricity, though. what's more essential, according to your rationale on bitcoin vs. fossil fuel investments: having food that isn't rotten in your home or being able to drive your personal privacy bubble around everywhere?

are you going to go back to salting and smoking all your meats and pickling all your vegetables in the outhouse, so that you can keep your car? better turn off the fridge-freezer, mom! not to mention that 'electricity production' is fundamental to, erm, the entire world economy. could your business do its work off the grid mate?

and i doubt most people outside of the G20 have serious home electricity usage. there aren't a lot of white goods in the developing world.

Last edited by uziq (2022-06-22 04:28:13)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5592|eXtreme to the maX
Yes, focus on the changes other people need to make, not the ones you can actually do now.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+489|2938
doesn't that apply to you? you're  not very happy thinking about the emissions and wastefulness of one-person private transportation, so you deflect onto ... err ... refrigeration? are you going to do away with refrigerating food any time soon?

or if anyone fingers your contributions at a nation level, you deflect onto the changes that, er, indians and chinese should be making.

it's funny because you've ranted in the past about how wasteful american's driving habits are, the types of vehicles they drive, the insane fuel efficiencies, the fact the entire nation is propped up by very low gas prices, etc ... but for some reason a little image that highlights the absurdity of an entire nation commuting to work in their private car (like you do) ... has made you go off on a rant about 'electricity production'.

do you work in a blacksmiths workshop using a bellows mate?

Last edited by uziq (2022-06-22 05:41:46)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,012|6258|USA

to save for posterity:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Americans like living in large inefficient houses well away from other Americans.

Seems like America is starting to boil though, maybe they will wake up.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5592|eXtreme to the maX
Even in America electricity production creates more greenhouse gases than transportation.

But yeah, if people like uziq blame everyone else as they pump out C02 and methane nothing will ever happen.

LMAO

https://u4d2z7k9.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/unnamed-98-768x542.jpg
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+489|2938
once again, you'd expect electricity production to consume/emit more than transportation ... considering, you know, every single aspect of our productive economic lives relies on electricity. or are you seriously suggesting that we go back to primary/secondary sector agricultural societies? are you going to forego the refrigerator or home AC/heating any time soon, dilbert?

transportation is a lifestyle nudge that can be changed and shaped without drastically upending society. going without electricity, erm, not so much ... ?

it's astounding the arguments you come out with.

and which one of us do you think consumes the most units of electricity in their day-to-day lifestyle? is this going to be another case of the guy who drives a subaru to get a pint of milk criticising the person who walks or gets the subway everywhere? i rent a 20 square metre studio apartment. i work in public or co-working spaces. the only electrical appliances that i use are a laptop/phone, a mini fridge-freezer, a washing machine once per week and, sparingly, a kettle. how are you doing over there?

Last edited by uziq (2022-06-23 02:55:02)

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2022 Jeff Minard