I don't think anyone is trying to justify anything here. The Twin Tower attacks were unjustifiable, full stop. However, they did not just wake up and decide to randomly attack the US... their misguided extremism came from somewhere and that somewhere was US interference in the US. No lessons will ever be learnt from 'the war on terror' if you don't at least try to get inside the head of the enemy.Stingray24 wrote:
+1Spark wrote:
there is no justification, no way you can say that meddling by the US was more of a factor than these people being fucking crazy.Dilbert_X wrote:
Yes, of course, they just woke up one morning and thought 'Hey, lets kill ourselves. Where to do it? How about America? They have some buildings, and planes, its perfect'.
We're fully inside their head and everyone knows they simply nuts. Even if the US and her allies completely removed our presence from the ME, the hatred would still exist.
Possibly... probably... but it would sure test the crazy Clerics' ability to whip up a frenzy if there was no good reason to attack the West.Stingray24 wrote:
We're fully inside their head and everyone knows they simply nuts. Even if the US and her allies completely removed our presence from the ME, the hatred would still exist.
I wouldn't say ye are fully inside the head of the enemy btw, until you lot are running suicide bombing missions into Al Qaeda strongholds you are just observing them from afar. You say they are just nuts (and to you and me they are) but they don't see it that way and that is why you are not 'inside their heads', you still don't understand their mindset.
Probably, for a generation at least. After that, I doubt it.Stingray24 wrote:
Even if the US and her allies completely removed our presence from the ME, the hatred would still exist.
fuck that. we have business there. we have intersts there. we found the fucking oil in the first place. if we remove troops then i say the west remove all business and let these fuckers go back to the stoneage like before the west found their oil for them.
Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-01-24 10:59:59)
Westerners who give out about the 'Islamification' of Europe and the US have no grounds for argument as long as Western companies and people operate in the Middle East, the door swings both ways. If you enjoy being allowed to operate business interests and whatnot over there then don't complain when some Pakistani guy takes over the local shop in your area.11 Bravo wrote:
fuck that. we have business there. we have intersts there. we found the fucking oil in the first place. if we remove troops then i say the west remove all business and let these fuckers go back to the stoneage like before the west found their oil for them.
People like lowing are always talking about how Western nations are appeasing Muslims by allowing them to practice their un-Western customs and way of life... well, if you go to Dubai as a Westerner you will find bars and hotels that allow Westerners to ply themselves with drink, and beaches that will allow you to wear swim-suits instead of burqhas. There are probably Middle-Eastern versions of lowing giving out about 'Western appeasement'! The door swings both ways.
not really my point. without the west finding oil there the ME would not look like it does today. i dont think that can be argued.Braddock wrote:
Westerners who give out about the 'Islamification' of Europe and the US have no grounds for argument as long as Western companies and people operate in the Middle East, the door swings both ways. If you enjoy being allowed to operate business interests and whatnot over there then don't complain when some Pakistani guy takes over the local shop in your area.11 Bravo wrote:
fuck that. we have business there. we have intersts there. we found the fucking oil in the first place. if we remove troops then i say the west remove all business and let these fuckers go back to the stoneage like before the west found their oil for them.
People like lowing are always talking about how Western nations are appeasing Muslims by allowing them to practice their un-Western customs and way of life... well, if you go to Dubai as a Westerner you will find bars and hotels that allow Westerners to ply themselves with drink, and beaches that will allow you to wear swim-suits instead of burqhas. There are probably Middle-Eastern versions of lowing giving out about 'Western appeasement'! The door swings both ways.
Perhaps. It's easy for the world to point the finger at the US meddling. However, when we do nothing, world opinion cries out for us to do something when these countries seem incapable and/or unwilling to control the extreme elements within their borders.Mekstizzle wrote:
Probably, for a generation at least. After that, I doubt it.Stingray24 wrote:
Even if the US and her allies completely removed our presence from the ME, the hatred would still exist.
Meh, without oil from there being sent west, the west would not look like it does today, again the door swings both ways.11 Bravo wrote:
not really my point. without the west finding oil there the ME would not look like it does today. i dont think that can be argued.Braddock wrote:
Westerners who give out about the 'Islamification' of Europe and the US have no grounds for argument as long as Western companies and people operate in the Middle East, the door swings both ways. If you enjoy being allowed to operate business interests and whatnot over there then don't complain when some Pakistani guy takes over the local shop in your area.11 Bravo wrote:
fuck that. we have business there. we have intersts there. we found the fucking oil in the first place. if we remove troops then i say the west remove all business and let these fuckers go back to the stoneage like before the west found their oil for them.
People like lowing are always talking about how Western nations are appeasing Muslims by allowing them to practice their un-Western customs and way of life... well, if you go to Dubai as a Westerner you will find bars and hotels that allow Westerners to ply themselves with drink, and beaches that will allow you to wear swim-suits instead of burqhas. There are probably Middle-Eastern versions of lowing giving out about 'Western appeasement'! The door swings both ways.
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
no, we would have drilled more here. or just have taken the oil and said FU. which looking back maybe we should have.presidentsheep wrote:
Meh, without oil from there being sent west, the west would not look like it does today, again the door swings both ways.11 Bravo wrote:
not really my point. without the west finding oil there the ME would not look like it does today. i dont think that can be argued.Braddock wrote:
Westerners who give out about the 'Islamification' of Europe and the US have no grounds for argument as long as Western companies and people operate in the Middle East, the door swings both ways. If you enjoy being allowed to operate business interests and whatnot over there then don't complain when some Pakistani guy takes over the local shop in your area.
People like lowing are always talking about how Western nations are appeasing Muslims by allowing them to practice their un-Western customs and way of life... well, if you go to Dubai as a Westerner you will find bars and hotels that allow Westerners to ply themselves with drink, and beaches that will allow you to wear swim-suits instead of burqhas. There are probably Middle-Eastern versions of lowing giving out about 'Western appeasement'! The door swings both ways.
point is that place is filled with fanatical nuts and we should protect our business. when a bunch of baptists start blowing up 7/11's and suicide bombing cafes...then the door swings both ways.
Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-01-24 11:46:08)
I would disagree. The world cries out when the US shows itself to be inconsistent in its foreign policies.Stingray24 wrote:
Perhaps. It's easy for the world to point the finger at the US meddling. However, when we do nothing, world opinion cries out for us to do something when these countries seem incapable and/or unwilling to control the extreme elements within their borders.Mekstizzle wrote:
Probably, for a generation at least. After that, I doubt it.Stingray24 wrote:
Even if the US and her allies completely removed our presence from the ME, the hatred would still exist.
The US has set itself up as the 'world police' and yet picks and chooses its battles... I think that annoys a lot of countries. The world was crying out about the situation in Zimbabwe and the issue of North Korea and its nuclear ambitions and yet the US sidestepped these issues in favour of invading Iraq, who no one was particularly worried about.
bullshit. if we did what you said then people would then cry about iraq. i dont buy that for a second.Braddock wrote:
I would disagree. The world cries out when the US shows itself to be inconsistent in its foreign policies.Stingray24 wrote:
Perhaps. It's easy for the world to point the finger at the US meddling. However, when we do nothing, world opinion cries out for us to do something when these countries seem incapable and/or unwilling to control the extreme elements within their borders.Mekstizzle wrote:
Probably, for a generation at least. After that, I doubt it.
The US has set itself up as the 'world police' and yet picks and chooses its battles... I think that annoys a lot of countries. The world was crying out about the situation in Zimbabwe and the issue of North Korea and its nuclear ambitions and yet the US sidestepped these issues in favour of invading Iraq, who no one was particularly worried about.
and why doesnt ireland do something about africa then? god you euros act like the real housewives of orange county sometimes.
I'm sorry but we can't complain about Muslims infiltrating Western society as long as we ourselves are infiltrating Middle Eastern society. Do you think conservative Muslims in Dubai are happy that alcohol is on sale to Westerners there despite Islamic laws regarding such practice? The West would not get by so easily if it had to rely on its own oil resources, that's the whole reason why the Middle East is so popular.11 Bravo wrote:
no, we would have drilled more here. or just have taken the oil and said FU. which looking back maybe we should have.presidentsheep wrote:
Meh, without oil from there being sent west, the west would not look like it does today, again the door swings both ways.11 Bravo wrote:
not really my point. without the west finding oil there the ME would not look like it does today. i dont think that can be argued.
point is that place is filled with fanatical nuts and we should protect our business. when a bunch of baptists start blowing up 7/11's and suicide bombing cafes...then the door swings both ways.
You reckon we should have just taken their oil and said "fuck you"? Hmmmm, nice foreign policy you have there.
haha better than what has happened. oil embargos and shit. fuck them.Braddock wrote:
You reckon we should have just taken their oil and said "fuck you"? Hmmmm, nice foreign policy you have there.
Millions marched AGAINST the war on Iraq and yet the US invaded under its usual pretence of stepping in to save the day when no one else was willing. It's bullshit, nobody supported the war because they saw it for the cynical invasion that it was. America picks and chooses its battles, sometimes it works out good for the rest of us, sometimes it doesn't... it usually depends on the President who's in power and what their personal motivations are.11 Bravo wrote:
bullshit. if we did what you said then people would then cry about iraq. i dont buy that for a second.Braddock wrote:
I would disagree. The world cries out when the US shows itself to be inconsistent in its foreign policies.Stingray24 wrote:
Perhaps. It's easy for the world to point the finger at the US meddling. However, when we do nothing, world opinion cries out for us to do something when these countries seem incapable and/or unwilling to control the extreme elements within their borders.
The US has set itself up as the 'world police' and yet picks and chooses its battles... I think that annoys a lot of countries. The world was crying out about the situation in Zimbabwe and the issue of North Korea and its nuclear ambitions and yet the US sidestepped these issues in favour of invading Iraq, who no one was particularly worried about.
"You Euros"? Please tell me you realise Britain is in Europe? Ireland is neutral, that's why. We send peace-keeping troops in with the UN when there's a mandate for such things. We also contribute a portion of our GDP to aid in Africa, what we don't do is go around the world picking sides and launching preemptive attacks and then moralise to the rest of the world.11 Bravo wrote:
and why doesnt ireland do something about africa then? god you euros act like the real housewives of orange county sometimes.
go do something or you cant cry. kind of like if you dont vote you cant complain right?
I remember drinking local Iraqi brewed beer.
that was nasty
that was nasty
The irony here is you have exactly the same mentality as an Islamic extremist... "fuck them".11 Bravo wrote:
haha better than what has happened. oil embargos and shit. fuck them.Braddock wrote:
You reckon we should have just taken their oil and said "fuck you"? Hmmmm, nice foreign policy you have there.
yes exactly the same except i dont see the need to blow up a town square with a bomb strapped to my chest. other than that yes the same i suppose. oh i dont beleive in the man in the sky either. but hey, kind of close. you right, brah.Braddock wrote:
The irony here is you have exactly the same mentality as an Islamic extremist... "fuck them".11 Bravo wrote:
haha better than what has happened. oil embargos and shit. fuck them.Braddock wrote:
You reckon we should have just taken their oil and said "fuck you"? Hmmmm, nice foreign policy you have there.
Wrong. I'll criticize who I like and I don't have to drop bombs on someone for my opinion to be valid. All I'm doing is pointing out the inconsistency in American foreign policy. They pick and choose their fights and criticize other nations when they do the same (e.g. Russia when they attacked Georgia on the premise that they were protecting South Ossetians). I'm not saying America is not a force for good, I'm just saying it's not always a force for good... a lot of the time it's looking out for number one.11 Bravo wrote:
go do something or you cant cry. kind of like if you dont vote you cant complain right?
and im asking why ireland cant go do something for africa
I just explained why in my last post... would you like me to draw you a picture?11 Bravo wrote:
and im asking why ireland cant go do something for africa
nice so you just are happy to sit back on your little island and not do a damn thing except bitch and moan?Braddock wrote:
I just explained why in my last post... would you like me to draw you a picture?11 Bravo wrote:
and im asking why ireland cant go do something for africa
What rank are you in the army?11 Bravo wrote:
nice so you just are happy to sit back on your little island and not do a damn thing except bitch and moan?Braddock wrote:
I just explained why in my last post... would you like me to draw you a picture?11 Bravo wrote:
and im asking why ireland cant go do something for africa