BF2S Forums Gunsights' Biblical References Concern US & UK forces

Actually I think its significant.
The other side knows they're involved in an ideological war, the average grunt or squaddie is ignorant of the fact.

They probably don't know why they paint crusader symbols on their tanks either.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-01-20 03:29:40)

Its political/ideological bullshit which put them in the line of fire in the first place.
I would have thought they would be interested to know that.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-01-20 03:31:30)

Obviously the average soldier probably didn't know/care. This isn't about them. It's about the higher ups, the contractor, the DoD, all the implications in Iraqistan and shit. Also the excuse of "it doesn't matter because they shout Allah Akbar all the time" is just weak... in the real world, and if they do actually care about what's going on in Iraqistan, they'd recall all these accessories and ditch that supplier.

Yeah it'll cost, but since when has money ever factored into anything regarding defense/Iraqistan anyway. Really, what's the difference between the Bible loons that did this and the Jihadists. Both of them ignore the peaceful aspects of their respective religions from their respective religious books and instead focus on the quotes that encourage all that killing shit. Especially these guys who used quotes from the New Testament. Obviously they wouldn't have used the more peaceful quotes as then they wouldn't be able to get their loonie message across. They themselves know they're being a bunch of hypocritical bastards, and at the very least, on a similar ideological level to their enemies.

1. They are involved, they're out there fighting. Those who signed up to go during the war certainly are.
The West is involved in an ideological war, hence all the demonising of moslems and support for Israel.

2.
Israeli tank.


US tank.


They're variations on the same theme.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-01-20 04:04:06)

Dilbert_X wrote:

1. They are involved, they're out there fighting. Those who signed up to go during the war certainly are.
The West is involved in an ideological war, hence all the demonising of moslems and support for Israel.

There's no "demonizing of Muslims". There's demonizing of terrorists, regardless of their religious persuasion.

And support for Israel has been around since 1947. It's unrelated to our role here, regardless of what the other side says. We'd be just as pissed at them even if we (and other Western powers) didn't have the relationship with Israel that we do.

Dilbert_X wrote:

2.
Israeli tank.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj25 … vaMk3c.jpg

US tank.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj25 … ank-10.jpg

They're variations on the same theme.

Because they're friendly markers, not "crusader symbols". And here I thought you were going to provide some evidence linking it to the Crusades, tinfoil hat logic and all.

A day without Dilbert's tinfoil hat nonsense is like a day without sunshine.

i thought this was well known for awhile now

MRFF president Mikey Weinstein says the inscriptions could give the Taliban and other enemy forces a propaganda tool.

but why would people, who see this as a religious conflict already, be upset that we put relgious scribbles on things we use to fight them?

The company states on its website: "We believe that America is great when its people are good. This goodness has been based on biblical standards throughout our history and we will strive to follow those morals."

based on modern biblical standards that have been heavily filtered and cut back over time

Strange then that two very different countries would just happen to use almost identical markers while doing battle in the ME eh?

I would hope so or they might start shooting each other, should they ever run into each other?  Being allies and whatnot.

Spark wrote:

Strange then that two very different countries would just happen to use almost identical markers while doing battle in the ME eh?

I would hope so or they might start shooting each other, should they ever run into each other?  Being allies and whatnot.

Not really likely to happen, and they could be repainted in minutes.

Doesn't explain why two countries with different languages, religions and alphabets would use the same symbols while fucking over the ME.

smuder201 wrote:

Paging Lowing.

But in all seriousness why don't the company use phrases from all the holy books of the world, solves the problem really. But I am sure there are those who think that this all OK really, here in the UK Christianity is our state religion, the Queen is the head of our church. But the US has issues as there is no state religion if I am correct, supposedly all religions are equal in the US(yeah right), & I am sure there will be posts about appeasement etc etc yadda yadda.

It wasn't done by the govt. It was done at the manufacturer without govt knoweldge or approval. If you can not see the difference I can't help ya.

The irony of a "Christian" gunsight manufacturer has not been lost on me however.

Last edited by lowing (2010-01-20 04:43:51)

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

There's no "demonizing of Muslims". There's demonizing of terrorists, regardless of their religious persuasion.

Search, author, lowing.

One poster in bf2s D&ST =/= foreign policy.

I will wait here for someone to show me where I have demonized Muslims. I demonize Islam. I take all people as individuals and judge their actions. WOuld give a shinny new nickel if you would stop inventing shit that I said. Argue against what I say, if I am always so wrong, that should be easy enough without inventing shit that I said s oyou can argue..

FEOS wrote:

We've become numb to the other side yelling "Allahu Akhbar" every ten seconds. I suppose it's worse if it's inscribed on our weapons rather than them shouting it out before they blow up some civilians out shopping for groceries. Contract mods and field orders will be coming out shortly, you can bet your house on that, Brad.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people justify questionable activity by Western military forces with the excuse that terrorists do worse things... have ye just given up being the 'good guys'? Opting instead to be the 'not quite as bad as the bad guys'? You have spent years claiming this war is not a holy war or a campaign of imposing Western religious values on the Middle East, how do you think this will play in the news throughout the Middle East?

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Welp... I doubt suicide bombers needed further encouragement.  Do you really think the average insurgent/terrorist speaks english, let alone can read abbreviated bible verse notations off of scopes at 100 yards.  Come on man.  ACLU much?

That's not the point. This is not what terrorists and insurgents think or feel, who gives a fuck about that? It's about the perception this creates for normal law-abiding Muslims throughout the Middle-East... y'know, the people you're trying to convince aren't the victims of a 'holy war' being waged against them by the West. How do you think this will look to them?

lowing wrote:

It wasn't done by the govt. It was done at the manufacturer without govt knoweldge or approval. If you can not see the difference I can't help ya. The irony of a "Christian" gunsight manufacturer has not been lost on me however.

This is true, however I'd be very surprised if the Government didn't know about it. I would imagine all pieces of kit are thoroughly examined and tested prior to use in the field, missing a detail like that would be a tad careless. I agree on the irony of a "Christian" gunsight manufacturer! "Turn the other cheek... and take that fucker down with one clean shot to the head. Boom".

Last edited by Braddock (2010-01-20 05:05:42)

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

FEOS wrote:

We've become numb to the other side yelling "Allahu Akhbar" every ten seconds. I suppose it's worse if it's inscribed on our weapons rather than them shouting it out before they blow up some civilians out shopping for groceries. Contract mods and field orders will be coming out shortly, you can bet your house on that, Brad.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people justify questionable activity by Western military forces with the excuse that terrorists do worse things... have ye just given up being the 'good guys'? Opting instead to be the 'not quite as bad as the bad guys'? You have spent years claiming this war is not a holy war or a campaign of imposing Western religious values on the Middle East, how do you think this will play in the news throughout the Middle East?

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Welp... I doubt suicide bombers needed further encouragement.  Do you really think the average insurgent/terrorist speaks english, let alone can read abbreviated bible verse notations off of scopes at 100 yards.  Come on man.  ACLU much?

That's not the point. This is not what terrorists and insurgents think or feel, who gives a fuck about that? It's about the perception this creates for normal law-abiding Muslims throughout the Middle-East... y'know, the people you're trying to convince aren't the victims of a 'holy war' being waged against them by the West. How do you think this will look to them?

lowing wrote:

It wasn't done by the govt. It was done at the manufacturer without govt knowledge or approval. If you can not see the difference I can't help ya. The irony of a "Christian" gunsight manufacturer has not been lost on me however.

This is true, however I'd be very surprised if the Government didn't know about it. I would imagine all pieces of kit are thoroughly examined and tested prior to use in the field, missing a detail like that would be a tad careless. I agree on the irony of a "Christian" gunsight manufacturer! "Turn the other cheek... and take that fucker down with one clean shot to the head. Boom".

I doubt the govt. knew. They are gunna test it for, durability and functionality. I doubt ledgabilty for Christian bible versus's is high up on their must have list for a gun sight.

If you guys can't even find Bible inscriptions on your own weapons what hope do you have of finding Osama Bin Laden?

Whether the military knew about it or not makes no difference now, it's still going to play bad in the press among ordinary Middle Easterners. Imagine the handguns of US-based Interpol agents had Koranic inscriptions on them lowing... how would that play on Sharia-watch.com?