BF2S Forums Looting in Haiti

Chou wrote:

Whoever gave me this karma: "this picture u posted suits what should happen to you."

You completely missed the point.

ruisleipa wrote:

Yeah, I know of course it's not an invasion per se. But still, I don't think the US should blockade the airport in order to remove its own citizens before aid can be flown in to help save the thousands of Haitians who aren't lucky enough to have a US passport. The US still cares about US citizens more than other country's people. How many died because of the US getting the Yanks out? Who knows, but it doesn't matter, right? Or does it?

ruisleipa wrote:

get the fuckin aid in. It's simple. Making aid flights register with the USAF in Florida? Very clever and logistical.

ruisleipa wrote:

As for you yanks thinking I hate the US blah blah, I don't. Some Americans are dumbasses but like I've said elsewhere there are dumbasses in every country. But you (Americans often) DO have an inflated sense of your own purpose.

ruisleipa wrote:

catboc wrote:

I wonder what Haiti would be like if the US decided not to be the most helpful generous country on earth?

Man, how about thinking that the US is NOT doing anything amazing or extraordinary - it is doing what it SHOULD do by morality, humanity or whatever. The US is fuckin closest and has been involved in Haiti for many years. Of course they SHOULD help, and if they DO then help they're just fulfilling their obligations. Whoopiefuckindo.

I mean, thanks and shit, yeah, but helping Haiti this once doesn't make up for all the endless shit you've done in the past.

ruisleipa wrote:

Yeah you've done good (your country, not 'you' personally), but you've done lots of shit too. The EU is also giving hundreds of millions in aid, but you don't see us bleating on about how brilliant we are.

ruisleipa wrote:

I wonder what the WORLD would be like if the US wasn't the most belligerant nation on earth, spending shitoloads on weapons yearly (DoD military budget 2010 685.1 BILLION USD not including $880–$1025 billion for 'non-military' stuff inc veterans affairs, NASA etc. Fuck you guys are paying $31.3-$123.7 billion per year on INTEREST for your PAST wars! lol that is fucked up..)

ruisleipa wrote:

Hell, just don't build a couple of fighter planes and you could rebuild Haiti. An F22 Raptor costs US$142.6 million. How much in aid are you giving Haiti? A few hundred million? WOW LIKE SUPER GENEROUS.

ruisleipa wrote:

Been waiting ages to use a Bill Hicks quote: "You know all that money we spend on the military ever year - trillions of dollars? Instead, if we use this money to feed and clothe the poor of this world, which it would do many times over, then we can explore space, inner and outer, together, as one race."

Kmarion wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Sad. Living in FL, this is why I own an AR & Mini14.  Not because Haitians are going to invade, but because natural disasters are a reality and I have very little faith in my "neighbors"...

Have you heard that there is a push to have hatians brought to Jacksonville and distributed to Tampa and Miami? awsm

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2010-01-19 16:02:16)

ruisleipa wrote:

Nice job with the quotes FEOS - I can't be arsed to do that personally.

ruisleipa wrote:

1) Well, as far as I know they're not evacuating anyone else but US citizens except a few lucky injured people. But they are using up airport space for evacuating US citizens (prolly got em all out by now tbh).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ja … fort-haiti
"Flights seeking permission to land continuously circle the airport, which is damaged and has only a single runway, rankling several governments and aid agencies. "There are 200 flights going in and out every day, which is an incredible amount for a country like Haiti," Jarry Emmanuel, air logistics officer for the UN's World Food Programme, told the New York Times. "But most flights are for the US military. Their priorities are to secure the country. Ours are to feed. We have got to get those priorities in sync.""

Aid flights aren't getting in. People go hungry and thirsty. They die. Make sense?

Due to the close proximity and shallow depth (6 miles) to the hypocenter or focus of the 2010 Haiti earthquake on January 12, Toussaint Louverture International Airport was damaged. While the runway, the taxiways and the apron of the airport remained operational, radio communications were not possible due to the control tower suffering extensive damage.[1] The airport lighting system was also shut down due to power outages. Nevertheless, the airport was able to be accessed with UNICOM procedures after the quake.

In the morning of January 13, the U.S. Coast Guard cutter Forward arrived and began running air-traffic control from Port-au-Prince Bay.[1] UN Peacekeeping forces had also moved quickly to secure the airport, thus allowing international rescue and aid forces to start their work.[2] Later in the day, United States Air Force Special Tactics personnel landed at the airport and assumed air traffic control (ATC) duties as well as much of the operation of the airport.[3] Their ATC set-up consisted of a folding table placed near the runway and handheld transceivers, as well as the use of a motorcycle to guide aircraft to parking zones.[4]

As of January 14, dozens of cargo planes were landing and taking off, but regular scheduled commercial air service ceased. Meantime, some inbound travelers were reaching Haiti by flying to neighboring Dominican Republic, primarily Las Américas International Airport in Santo Domingo, and then traveling overland.[5]

On January 15, heavy traffic to the airport forced the Federal Aviation Administration's Air Traffic Control System Command Center to issue a ground stop for all aircraft attempting to leave the U.S. for Haitian airspace due to limited space and lack of fuel at the airport. Problems had been compounded by pilots inbound to the airport canceling instrument flight rules operation and proceeding on visual flight rules.[6] That day the United States was formally granted temporary control of the airport per a memorandum of understanding signed by the Haitian Prime Minister.[7] The airport has apparently been operating without radar[citation needed], although the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson arrived the morning of the 15th and has advanced aircraft tracking capabilities.

By the morning of January 18, less than five days after arriving, a reported 819 aircraft had landed under the direction of the USAF team.[4]

The largest number of foreigners in Haiti was from neighboring countries, including an estimated 40,000-45,000 American citizens,[79] 6,000 Canadians,[80] and 1,200 French.[81] An official of the Dominican Republic reported that there were 2,600 Dominicans living in Haiti as "legal residents."[82]

ruisleipa wrote:

2) True, but the US is prioritising military flights, not aid flights. Yes, the airport is damaged, and no, you cannot miracle more capacity, you are right.

ruisleipa wrote:

3) Compensating for something else tbh - lol nice one!

ruisleipa wrote:

4) "lrn2history"? Huh? What kind of a response is that?

ruisleipa wrote:

5) Compare amounts? Well, the US has given about 100 million as I understand it. The EU has pledged about 400 million euros (571 million USD). Good comparison? I don't go on about how brilliant 'we' are at all, thanks.

ruisleipa wrote:

6) "Yes, our defense budget is ridiculous". Good. We agree.

ruisleipa wrote:

7) LOL I'm not a hypocrite for pointing that out, especially since I don't pretend to be a flag-waver for any other countries, and not Finland either. I've never said those countries are the best or morally perfect or anything else, far from it. Calling someone a hypocrite isn't a catch-all defence. just agree that you should NOT spend money on a few fighters which you probably won't need anyway and give more to Haiti, which was more-or-less my point. And fuck yes, Finland should give more. FYI this country has pledged 1803752 USD at 0.339 USD per person. The US has pledged 0.364 per person. Both low compared with other countries, although amount per person isn't a great way of showing relative efforts. And not enough, really.

ruisleipa wrote:

8) From wikipedia: "The 2009 U.S. military budget is almost as much as the rest of the world's defense spending combined and is over nine times larger than the military budget of China (compared at the nominal US dollar / Renminbi rate, not the PPP rate). The United States and its close allies are responsible for about two-thirds of the world's military spending (of which, in turn, the U.S. is responsible for the majority)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_b … _countries

So yeah, if you stopped spendin all those billions on arms, and stopped arming other countries (remember who armed the Taliban or Saddam????) then YES the world WOULD be safer. Sure, keep a defence force but can't you see the figures are just mind-blowing, staggeringly outrageous? Let's not forget, the ultimate aim of all those trillions spent is to kill people.

ruisleipa wrote:

Yes other countries buy arms, but nowhere NEAR the amount the US spends on them, and most of the time they buy them FROM the USA so there's little reason for the USA to stop selling them! Even to dicatotrs, and people who in a few years you'll probably be fighting again! Just stupid.

ruisleipa wrote:

I repeat again, yes the USA has performed good deeds as a country in the past, but many many bad ones as well. A bit of humility from America would go a long way. Partly why people over the world like(d) Obama - he is a humble man, especially in comparison to Bush, Cheney and the teabaggers.

ruisleipa wrote:

btw, the invasion comment was kinda sarcastic, but you must admit it looks an awful lot like an invasion.. I mean, the USA is sending 5000 troops there plus planes, the navy and so on. And..er...three (?) disaster rescue teams (as I read yesterday, it could be more by now). Kinda weird right?

ruisleipa wrote:

re the quoting I know it's not difficult, I just can't be arsed.

points 1-2 + 5 you make good points and you're probably right. I hope.

3-the end. you make crappy points, sorry.

3.Still doesn't make sense but perhaps you could tell me what I'm compensting for? Oh you think I have a small dick!!! That must be it. Ohohohohoh very hilarious.

ruisleipa wrote:

4. I do know some history thanks. Anything in particular? Would you like me to suggest some things for you too?

ruisleipa wrote:

6. Well, neither do you! You agre with me, that your defence budget is ridiculous. The fact you spend as much as the rest of the world combined on arms AND YOU USE THEM makes you the most belligerent nation on earth. Not something to be proud of, oh 'freedom loving ' USA!

ruisleipa wrote:

7. The f-22 was just an example. I'm sure you cold pick any one of your latest tank/APC/jets/aircraft carrier projects for me to prove my point. Thanks mate.

ruisleipa wrote:

8. Majority of saddams and talibans arms russian? a) prove it. b) so what if the 'majority' even were soviet? The USA armed them and end up fighting them. Not forgetting CIA support etc given to the taliban. Don't be so naive.

The majority of Iraqi armoured forces still used old Chinese Type 59s and Type 69s, Soviet-made T-55s from the 1950s and 1960s, and some T-72s from the 1970s in 1991.
Iraqis also tried to use Soviet military doctrine, but the implementation failed due to the lack of skill of their commanders and the preventive air strikes of the USAF on communication centers and bunkers.

After the 14 July Revolution in 1958, when the King of Iraq was overthrown, the country increased diplomatic and political relationships with the Warsaw Pact countries, while simultaneously severed relations with western nations.[4] The Iraqi Air Force (IQAF) dropped "Royal" from its name after the revolution.[4] The Communists were swift to start supplying MiG-17s, and later MiG-19 and MiG-21 fighters, as well as Ilyushin Il-28 bombers to the new Iraqi government.[4] They also received 13 Ilyushin Il-14 transports in 1957 from Poland.[citation needed] The first MiG-17s were first delivered in 1958 to replace the de Havilland Vampires.[citation needed] It is possible that during the late 1960s and or early 1970s for a few additional MiG-17 examples were purchased and then forwarded to either Syria or Egypt.[4] The IQAF received about 50 MiG-19s during the early 1960s but some of these aircraft were given to Egypt. In 1966, Assyrian Iraqi Captain Munir Roufa flew his MiG-21F-13 to Israel. Two years later, Israel gave his MiG-21F-13 to the United States for evaluation under the code-name "Have Donut".[6]
Between 1980 and the summer of 1990, the number of combat aircraft in the IQAF went from 332 to over 950.[3] Before the Iraqi invasion of Iran, the IQAF had expected 16 modern Dassault Mirage F.1EQs from France and were also in the middle of receiving a total of 240 new aircraft and helicopters from their Eastern European allies. When Iraq invaded Iran in late September 1980, the Communists and the French stopped delivery of additional aircraft to Iraq but resumed deliveries a few months later.[7]

The IQAF had to instead fight with obsolete MiG-21 Fishbeds and MiG-23 Floggers.[7] The MiG-21 was the main interceptor of the force while their MiG-23s were used for ground attack.[citation needed] These aircraft were still no match for the Iranian F-4 Phantoms and F-14 Tomcats, however.[citation needed] On the first day of the war, a formation of MiG-23s and MiG-21s raided airports and airfields of the Iranian Air Force, but the Iranian aircraft were not heavily damaged because of strong concrete hangers that housed the planes.[citation needed] In retaliation for these aerial attacks, the Iranian Air Force launched Operation Kaman 99 a day after the war was launched.

During late 1981, it was soon clear that the modern Mirage F-1s and the Soviet MiG-25s were effective against the Iranians, though they suffered considerable losses to Iranian interceptors.[citation needed] Some of these aircraft were reportedly even when flown by foreign mercenaries and "advisors".[7] The IQAF began to use their new Eastern weaponry which included Tu-22KD/KDP bombers, equipped with Kh-22M/MP air-to-ground missiles, MiG-25s equipped with Kh-25 air-to-ground missiles as well as Kh-25 and Kh-58 anti-radar missiles and even MiG-27s, equipped with Kh-29L/T missiles.[7] In 1983, to satisfy the Iraqis waiting for their F-1s, Super Etendards were leased to Iraq. The Iranian gunships and the Iranian fleet suffered severe damage by these attacks interceptors.[7]
During the Persian Gulf War, most Iraqi pilots and aircrafts (of French & Soviet origin) fled to Iran to escape the bombing campaign because no other country would allow them sanctuary. The Iranians impounded these aircraft after the war and never returned them, putting them in the service of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force[10] -- claiming them as reparations for the Iran–Iraq War. Because of this Saddam Hussain did not send the rest of his Air Force to Iran just prior to operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003, instead opting to their burial in sand. Saddam Hussain, preoccupied with Iran and regional power balance, is reported to have had commented: "The Iranians are even stronger than before, they now have our Air Force."[11]

These included: Mirage F1s, Su-17, Su-20 and Su-22M Fitters, Su-24MK Fencer-Ds, Su-25K/UBK Frogfoots, MiG-21 Fishbeds, MiG-23 Floggers, MiG-25 Foxbats, MiG-29A/UB Fulcrums and a number of Il-76s, including the one-off AEW-AWACS prototype Il-76 "ADNAN 1"

Also, prior to Operation Desert Storm, ten Iraqi MiG-23 fighter aircraft had been sent to Yugoslavia to get overhauled, but the MiG's were never returned due to the war that started in Yugoslavia.

ruisleipa wrote:

Your point might be other countrie make and sell arms - true. My point is the USA does much more than other countries which again makes you the world's warmonger. Tough shit.

ruisleipa wrote:

Yes, compared with Bush and Clinton I believe Obama is humble.

ruisleipa wrote:

I have no 'agenda', certainly not on a fuckin internet forum!

.Sup wrote:

reminds me of New Orleans

SEREMAKER wrote:

the food distrubtion centers .......

SEREMAKER wrote:

but now since lack security ( don't want to make it look we're invading the country ) gangs have kinda taken over the centers

11 Bravo wrote:

forget the quake for a second.  just imagine the island void of any people.  its a tropical paradise tbh.  a neighbor of mine was there about 15 years back.  saw some of his pictures.  very pretty place.

so.  why is it such a shithole?