Braddock
Agitator
+916|6291|Éire
This thread is essentially about the terrible disaster that occurred in Haiti but I'm going to approach it from a different angle, so bear with me. Thread upon thread in this forum bombard us with examples of how fundamentalist Muslims view the West as a great "Devil" that needs to be changed for the better, and how dangerous these kinds of views are. Well here's Pat Robinson being allowed airtime in the good ol' "US of A", explaining that he thinks the earthquake in Haiti is the direct result of Haitians making a pact with the Devil in order to free themselves from French rule...



This man is a deluded extremist who believes an evil mythical deity is responsible for a natural disaster (the kind of natural disaster that has been occurring since at least the beginning of recorded human history). This man's bile is no less insulting, and no less dangerous, than the venomous rhetoric that is spewed out in extremist mosques around the world. One might say it is less dangerous because he is not calling for direct violence against anyone but as Bush and his cronies proved, when you believe you have a religious agenda (like Robinson) almost any act of violence can be rationalised and bent to fit your world view.

So, what's the difference between someone like Pat Robinson and 'Crazy Muslim With a Hook'?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6406|North Carolina
Good point...   I guess the difference is this....

Robertson is clearly a guy who is a salesman for Christian extremists.  He probably only believes a small fraction of the bullshit he spews, but he spews it because he knows his audience well.  He makes quite a lot of money off of the idiocy of many backwoodsy types.

What makes his type different is that usually these assholes don't fund terror...   Granted, Pat Robertson actually has....

"According to a 2 June 1999, article in The Virginian-Pilot, Robertson had extensive business dealings with Liberian president Charles Taylor. According to the article, Taylor gave Robertson the rights to mine for diamonds in Liberia's mineral-rich countryside. According to two Operation Blessing pilots who reported this incident to the state of Virginia for investigation in 1994, Robertson used his Operation Blessing planes to haul diamond-mining equipment to Robertson's mines in Liberia, despite the fact that Robertson was telling his 700 Club viewers that the planes were sending relief supplies to the victims of the genocide in Rwanda. In response to Taylor's alleged crimes against humanity the United States Congress passed a bill In November 2003 that offered two million dollars for his capture. Robertson accused President Bush of 'undermining a Christian, Baptist president to bring in Muslim rebels to take over the country.' At the time Taylor was harboring Al Qaeda operatives who were funding their operations through the illegal diamond trade."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

So I agree with you specifically on Robertson.  He should be in jail (or Gitmo for that matter).
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6291|Éire
@Turquoise

Good post. I would argue that some of the leading Al Qaeda chiefs don't believe half of the shit they spew either. Like Robertson, they know their audience and they know how to push buttons. People like Bin Laden and the Taliban leaders are often intelligent men with political ambitions and they don't mind breaking a few eggs (to put it very mildly) to get what they want. If the religious angle can be exploited in this regard then by gum they'll exploit it, and how!
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6617|do not disturb

Did the Haitians really make a pact with the devil? Wikipedia shows up nothing. Sounds like he is making a bunch of sensational stuff up.

Last edited by Phrozenbot (2010-01-13 22:55:46)

Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6000|The Mitten
What's the difference? He's american, so he's a "freedom fighter"
EE (hats
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5587

Haiti is mostly full of people who practice a twisted form of Christianity that involves magic which we call "voodoo". This is merely one sect of Christianity bashing another sect of Christianity for differences within their own larger religious group. Not really comparable to Muslims hatred towards a secular state.
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6000|The Mitten

Macbeth wrote:

Haiti is mostly full of people who practice a twisted form of Christianity that involves magic which we call "voodoo". This is merely one sect of Christianity bashing another sect of Christianity for differences within their own larger religious group. Not really comparable to Muslims hatred towards a secular state.
Voodoo is a derivative of the world’s oldest known religions which have been around in Africa since the beginning of human civilization. Some conservative estimates these civilizations and religions to be over 10 000 years old. This then identify Voodoo as probably the best example of African syncretism in the Americas. Although its essential wisdom originated in different parts of Africa long before the Europeans started the slave trade, the structure of Voodoo, as we know it today, was born in Haiti during the European colonization of Hispaniola. Ironically, it was the enforced immigration of enslaved African from different ethnic groups that provided the circumstances for the development of Voodoo. European colonists thought that by desolating the ethnic groups, these could not come together as a community. However, in the misery of slavery, the transplanted Africans found in their faith a common thread.

They began to invoke not only their own Gods, but to practice rites other than their own. In this process, they comingled and modified rituals of various ethnic groups. The result of such fusion was that the different religious groups integrated their beliefs, thereby creating a new religion: Voodoo. The word "voodoo" comes from the West African word "vodun," meaning spirit. This Afro-Caribbean religion mixed practices from many African ethnics groups such as the Fon, the Nago, the Ibos, Dahomeans, Congos, Senegalese, Haussars, Caplaous, Mondungues, Mandinge, Angolese, Libyans, Ethiopians, and the Malgaches.
(http://theafrocentricexperience.com/ind … 0e6ede69b3)
?
EE (hats
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6530|Global Command
The difference is that there seems to be some history behind the notion that there was a deal with the devil..

Now, maybe it's bs, but PR is not the first to say it.

He flatly declared that the successful Haitian revolution against the French Army was inaugurated with a bargain. Jean Jacques Dessalines, the Haitian leader of the revolution, according to this preacher, had struck a deal with the devil.
http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/May96/haiti.html
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6000|The Mitten

ATG wrote:

The difference is that there seems to be some history behind the notion that there was a deal with the devil..

Now, maybe it's bs, but PR is not the first to say it.

He flatly declared that the successful Haitian revolution against the French Army was inaugurated with a bargain. Jean Jacques Dessalines, the Haitian leader of the revolution, according to this preacher, had struck a deal with the devil.
http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/May96/haiti.html
I'm pretty sure there's a history behind the muslims not liking the west, they're called the crusades, or something.
EE (hats
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5587

Morpheus wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Haiti is mostly full of people who practice a twisted form of Christianity that involves magic which we call "voodoo". This is merely one sect of Christianity bashing another sect of Christianity for differences within their own larger religious group. Not really comparable to Muslims hatred towards a secular state.
Voodoo is a derivative of the world’s oldest known religions which have been around in Africa since the beginning of human civilization. Some conservative estimates these civilizations and religions to be over 10 000 years old. This then identify Voodoo as probably the best example of African syncretism in the Americas. Although its essential wisdom originated in different parts of Africa long before the Europeans started the slave trade, the structure of Voodoo, as we know it today, was born in Haiti during the European colonization of Hispaniola. Ironically, it was the enforced immigration of enslaved African from different ethnic groups that provided the circumstances for the development of Voodoo. European colonists thought that by desolating the ethnic groups, these could not come together as a community. However, in the misery of slavery, the transplanted Africans found in their faith a common thread.

They began to invoke not only their own Gods, but to practice rites other than their own. In this process, they comingled and modified rituals of various ethnic groups. The result of such fusion was that the different religious groups integrated their beliefs, thereby creating a new religion: Voodoo. The word "voodoo" comes from the West African word "vodun," meaning spirit. This Afro-Caribbean religion mixed practices from many African ethnics groups such as the Fon, the Nago, the Ibos, Dahomeans, Congos, Senegalese, Haussars, Caplaous, Mondungues, Mandinge, Angolese, Libyans, Ethiopians, and the Malgaches.
(http://theafrocentricexperience.com/ind … 0e6ede69b3)
?
Haitian Vodou or Vaudou (French pronunciation: [vodu], Anglicised as Voodoo) is a syncretic[1] religion originating from the Caribbean country of Haiti, located on the island of Hispaniola. It is based upon a merging of the beliefs and practices of West African peoples, (mainly the Fon and Ewe; see West African Vodun), with Roman Catholic Christianity, which was brought about as African slaves were brought to Haiti in the 16th century and forced to convert to the religion of their owners, whilst they largely still followed their traditional African beliefs.[2]
Haitian Vodou
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6530|Global Command

Morpheus wrote:

ATG wrote:

The difference is that there seems to be some history behind the notion that there was a deal with the devil..

Now, maybe it's bs, but PR is not the first to say it.

He flatly declared that the successful Haitian revolution against the French Army was inaugurated with a bargain. Jean Jacques Dessalines, the Haitian leader of the revolution, according to this preacher, had struck a deal with the devil.
http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/May96/haiti.html
I'm pretty sure there's a history behind the muslims not liking the west, they're called the crusades, or something.
The Muslim community is justified in much of their discontent.

Did we not carve the middle east up like a jigsaw puzzle after WW1?
Do we not now exploit the region for oil?


The crusades started as revenge by the Christians for Muslims attacking Christian peoples. The Christians turned it into a place to seek fortune and plunder. What should have been a border dispute became a military industrial complex that thrived for two hundred plus years.

Central banks have ruined everything here and in the U.K. and the West seeks to force our banking systems on them.


Frankly, they have every right to do anything they can to stop this.
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6000|The Mitten
ah, so not the "voodoo" you said previously.
EE (hats
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5587

Morpheus wrote:

ATG wrote:

The difference is that there seems to be some history behind the notion that there was a deal with the devil..

Now, maybe it's bs, but PR is not the first to say it.

He flatly declared that the successful Haitian revolution against the French Army was inaugurated with a bargain. Jean Jacques Dessalines, the Haitian leader of the revolution, according to this preacher, had struck a deal with the devil.
http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/May96/haiti.html
I'm pretty sure there's a history behind the muslims not liking the west, they're called the crusades, or something.
So how many men did the United States provide Barbarossa for the third crusade again?
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6000|The Mitten

ATG wrote:

Morpheus wrote:

ATG wrote:

The difference is that there seems to be some history behind the notion that there was a deal with the devil..

Now, maybe it's bs, but PR is not the first to say it.


http://www.ibiblio.org/prism/May96/haiti.html
I'm pretty sure there's a history behind the muslims not liking the west, they're called the crusades, or something.
The Muslim community is justified in much of their discontent.

Did we not carve the middle east up like a jigsaw puzzle after WW1?
Do we not now exploit the region for oil?


The crusades started as revenge by the Christians for Muslims attacking Christian peoples. The Christians turned it into a place to seek fortune and plunder. What should have been a border dispute became a military industrial complex that thrived for two hundred plus years.

Central banks have ruined everything here and in the U.K. and the West seeks to force our banking systems on them.


Frankly, they have every right to do anything they can to stop this.
i'm not disagreeing with anything in the response post, but in the initial, it sounded like there was prior history against the haitians, and nothing prior for the muslims
EE (hats
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5587

Morpheus wrote:

ah, so not the "voodoo" you said previously.
Haitian Vodou or Vaudou (French pronunciation: [vodu], Anglicised as Voodoo) is a syncretic[1] religion originating from the Caribbean country of Haiti, located on the island of Hispaniola. It is based upon a merging of the beliefs and practices of West African peoples, (mainly the Fon and Ewe; see West African Vodun), with Roman Catholic Christianity, which was brought about as African slaves were brought to Haiti in the 16th century and forced to convert to the religion of their owners, whilst they largely still followed their traditional African beliefs.[2]
Haitian Vodou
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|6000|The Mitten

Macbeth wrote:

Morpheus wrote:

ah, so not the "voodoo" you said previously.
Haitian Vodou or Vaudou (French pronunciation: [vodu], Anglicised as Voodoo) is a syncretic[1] religion originating from the Caribbean country of Haiti, located on the island of Hispaniola. It is based upon a merging of the beliefs and practices of West African peoples, (mainly the Fon and Ewe; see West African Vodun), with Roman Catholic Christianity, which was brought about as African slaves were brought to Haiti in the 16th century and forced to convert to the religion of their owners, whilst they largely still followed their traditional African beliefs.[2]
Haitian Vodou
apparently, voodoo and Haitian voodoo are two different things.
EE (hats
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6716|US
No better than the Westborough Baptist Church idiots, IMO.  This is what happens when people twist religion to suit their own political views...

Just because something bad happens does not mean it is punishment for some wrong.  (See Job or John 9:1-3)
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX
What makes his type different is that usually these assholes don't fund terror...
They fund the Republican party, which is the same thing.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6412|'Murka

Braddock wrote:

This man is a deluded extremist
Violently agree

Braddock wrote:

So, what's the difference between someone like Pat Robinson and 'Crazy Muslim With a Hook'?
You answered your own question already:

Braddock wrote:

he is not calling for direct violence against anyone
Speech is free until your words infringe on any of my inalienable rights. Inciting violence does that. He spouts nonsense, but he does not incite violence.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5703|College Park, MD
The difference is that bin Laden lives in a cave, while Robertson acts like he does.

Extreme, hateful interpretation of any religion is a cancer on this earth.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6223|teh FIN-land

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

any religion is a cancer on this earth.
...fixed?
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS
On the actual incident itself... we could be seeing 100 000 dead, which would put it around the worst categories of natural disasters - certainly the worst since the tsunami.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5260|foggy bottom
Pat Robertson is the kind of guy that would have used the bible to justify slavery 120 years ago.  cant wait till that guy kicks the bucket

Last edited by eleven bravo (2010-01-13 23:17:08)

Tu Stultus Es
Ioan92
Member
+337|5723
An earthquake happened, a geological event which consists of two or more tectonic plates moving in the whatever direction causing tremors.

Get that religious / voodoo shit out of here now. Discussing bullshit is pointless.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5260|foggy bottom
Haiti is the voodoo capital of the world
Tu Stultus Es

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