BF2S Forums Irish atheists challenge new blasphemy laws

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Have you not fucking considered that Ireland is a religious country? What about the fucking bible belt south.

What about it? We still do not have such tyrannical laws even in the bible belt.

If I am wrong, show me where this has been a pressing issue, before the current events of Islamic back lash

You don't need fucking laws when you let the fucking KKK run around loose. Go down to fucking Alabama and say how much you support gay marriage, and see how long you will fucking last.

I live in the south, GA to be exact, and the KKK is free to run around loose, and think and say what they feel, as long as they do not interefere in anothers right to life liberty and happiness, no one gives a shit. Pretty much why they are reduced to a foot note in some unfortunate American history.

Plan on addressing my post any time soon?

Last edited by lowing (2010-01-02 16:02:38)

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

You don't need fucking laws when you let the fucking KKK run around loose. Go down to fucking Alabama and say how much you support gay marriage, and see how long you will fucking last.

It's not the 50s anymore... You know that right?

I still see remnants of fucking whiskey tangos fucking shit up.

America as a fucking whole is still fucking huge. Why isn't gay marriage and abortion legal? Provide me one reason beside religion in the voters mind, not the governments mind.

Abortion is legal.

Gay marriage isn't because the people have voted against it democratically wherever it's been put on a ballot?

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

I still see remnants of fucking whiskey tangos fucking shit up.

America as a fucking whole is still fucking huge. Why isn't gay marriage and abortion legal? Provide me one reason beside religion in the voters mind, not the governments mind.

Abortion is legal.

Gay marriage isn't because the people have voted against it democratically wherever it's been put on a ballot?

Any reason other than religion? They voted against it democratically because of religious institutions.

I stand corrected that abortion is legal throughout the United States due to Roe vs Wade case.

I am just saying, religion still plays a large part in American culture and politics. There has been no president that does not believe in a deity. Hell you even have some schools think evolution is bullshit.

Umm, it failed in three democratic elections in the three most liberal states in America: California, Washington and Maine. While I'm sure religion played a part, none of those states are known for their theologians. As for the reasons of the people who voted against gay marriage... you'd have to ask them. Voting is a personal thing, no?

And Thomas Jefferson was a humanist, so you're wrong on that as well.

FatherTed wrote:

Do a quick check on the amount of muslims we have in ireland. go actually check your figures. In an average week, in one of the biggest citys on the island i see maybe 2% of the total people, who are non-white.

So? In case you haven't noticed lately, Islam has had no problems infiltrating any place they see fit to lend attention to.

This does nothing to show where this is not set up for Islamic appeasement. If you want to prove this to me, show me where this has been a pressing issue BEFORE, Islamic terrorism, or retaliation has been a major concern.

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Sorry, nothing has happened ( outside of Islam) that makes trashing a religion a concern. If so , what?

Lowing, you're really stretching this one.

While it is true that religious political parties in various European countries have attempted to use the feelings of Muslims concerning blasphemy against their religion as fodder for pushing the censorship of speech against religion overall, this particular case in Ireland was purely brought about by Christian extremists, not Islamic ones.

Ireland barely has much of an Islamic community to begin with.

These laws are popping up in more places than Ireland, and has only been considered a serious consideration after the Islamic actions of recent.

Or can you tell me when, before current events, do you remember this being a serious issue for anyone?

Face it, no one wants to piss of the Muslims,it is far too dangerous to do so.

Again, that argument might work for the Netherlands or Denmark, but there's no reason for this fear in Ireland.  There are barely any Muslims there to piss off.

The point is that Catholic extremists can be overbearing just like Islamic ones.  When looking at Northern Ireland, analogies of religious-based violence can also be drawn.

You're too fixated on Islam to rationally discuss this, it seems.

Phrozenbot wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Have you not fucking considered that Ireland is a religious country? What about the fucking bible belt south.

I didn't know Ireland was a theocracy.

Ireland may technically be a secular state, but this particular law being protested is certainly theocratic in nature.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-01-02 22:31:30)

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Umm, it failed in three democratic elections in the three most liberal states in America: California, Washington and Maine. While I'm sure religion played a part, none of those states are known for their theologians. As for the reasons of the people who voted against gay marriage... you'd have to ask them. Voting is a personal thing, no?

And Thomas Jefferson was a humanist, so you're wrong on that as well.

Actually...  with California, it was religion without a doubt.  Rick Warren and several others pushed a misinformation campaign that led to the passing of Proposition 8.  It was almost entirely built on religion and religion-induced homophobia.

California is best known for its ultraliberal coastal cities, but its interior has some of the most conservative and religious communities in America.  In addition to this, many black and Latino communities are not only religious but notoriously homophobic.

Washington was largely the same in why it voted down gay marriage.  Seattle has one of the most active homosexual communities in America, but the rural interior of Washington is very conservative.

As for Maine, I don't know as much about them.

Frankly, it's the flamboyants that are hurting their own cause. Just as militant atheists and fundamentalist religious give their causes bad names, so to do the extremists in the gay community. Every single parade has gay men on floats behaving ludely and that is the image that sticks in peoples minds. It's not fair, but they've done it to themselves.

Besides, certain people keep preaching about the joys of Socialism and Democracy... this is the result of Democracy. The Tyranny of the Majority always wins. In this case they're the religious folks. Are they wrong for voting for what they feel is right? Of course not.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-01-02 22:51:58)

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Frankly, it's the flamboyants that are hurting their own cause. Just as militant atheists and fundamentalist religious give their causes bad names, so to do the extremists in the gay community. Every single parade has gay men on floats behaving ludely and that is the image that sticks in peoples minds. It's not fair, but they've done it to themselves.

Besides, certain people keep preaching about the joys of Socialism and Democracy... this is the result of Democracy. The Tyranny of the Majority always wins. In this case they're the religious folks. Are they wrong for voting for what they feel is right? Of course not.

Actually, because this is a civil rights issue, they are wrong.  Civil rights aren't subject to the will of the majority.  This is true of both democracy and socialism.  We currently suffer the tyranny of the majority only because our Justice System has been unable to right this wrong so far, and because we've foolishly incorporated a religious institution into government (marriage).

Once we separate marriage from government, the issue becomes more clearly a secular, civil rights issue that no religion will hold any weight in.

Until then, we'll suffer the effects of the ignorant majority and the religions they hide behind to justify their homophobia with.

It's funny most blacks voted against gay marriage and there is a strong social stigma against homosexuality in black culture (I'd say religious based "Baby you need to see jesus" that type of shite).

There is no reason whatsoever that marriage shouldn't be legalized between gay couples. It is simple deprivation of civil liberties that the Constitution is suppose to protect in the first place. As lowing said (Goddamn I'm quoting lowing) "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and persuit of happiness."

lowing wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Do a quick check on the amount of muslims we have in ireland. go actually check your figures. In an average week, in one of the biggest citys on the island i see maybe 2% of the total people, who are non-white.

So? In case you haven't noticed lately, Islam has had no problems infiltrating any place they see fit to lend attention to.

This does nothing to show where this is not set up for Islamic appeasement. If you want to prove this to me, show me where this has been a pressing issue BEFORE, Islamic terrorism, or retaliation has been a major concern.

love the way you ask other people for 'proof' and 'evidence' when all you give in support of your arguments is....er...nothing. Well done.

Cybargs wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Frankly, it's the flamboyants that are hurting their own cause. Just as militant atheists and fundamentalist religious give their causes bad names, so to do the extremists in the gay community. Every single parade has gay men on floats behaving ludely and that is the image that sticks in peoples minds. It's not fair, but they've done it to themselves.

Besides, certain people keep preaching about the joys of Socialism and Democracy... this is the result of Democracy. The Tyranny of the Majority always wins. In this case they're the religious folks. Are they wrong for voting for what they feel is right? Of course not.

Actually, because this is a civil rights issue, they are wrong.  Civil rights aren't subject to the will of the majority.  This is true of both democracy and socialism.  We currently suffer the tyranny of the majority only because our Justice System has been unable to right this wrong so far, and because we've foolishly incorporated a religious institution into government (marriage).

Once we separate marriage from government, the issue becomes more clearly a secular, civil rights issue that no religion will hold any weight in.

Until then, we'll suffer the effects of the ignorant majority and the religions they hide behind to justify their homophobia with.

It's funny most blacks voted against gay marriage and there is a strong social stigma against homosexuality in black culture (I'd say religious based "Baby you need to see jesus" that type of shite).

There is no reason whatsoever that marriage shouldn't be legalized between gay couples. It is simple deprivation of civil liberties that the Constitution is suppose to protect in the first place. As lowing said (Goddamn I'm quoting lowing) "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and persuit of happiness."

Word. Plus government should just keep its big fucking nose out of things like marriage. Issue civil union licenses, not "marriage" licenses. Leave marriage up to churches.

Ireland has had its far share of violence but both sides worship the same deity albeit in slightly different ways.

That "slightly different" has been enough for the two sides to go at it hammer and tongs for centuries.

this thread makes me lol hard.

Token Muslim here, and props to the Irish atheists for including George Carlin among those quotes.

I don't particularly see how the passing of this law is related to the recent terrorism attempt by Al-Qaeda and/or the intrusion of the Danish cartoonist's home. Granted, they're inspired by Islamist extremism (aka bullshit false teachings and idiots not thinking for themselves), but from the info in this thread, Ireland has no reason to fear any sort of religious backlash, since the airport attack was and is in response to continued US operations disrupting Al-Qaeda activity in the Middle East, while the attempt on the Danish cartoonist's life is both because of the cartoonist's own idiocy (those cartoons were hardly even funny, they just served to needlessly bash Islam) and some idiot so-called 'Muslim' who can't build a bridge and bloody get over it.